58cc or 64cc head?

[Coupe5oh]

My budget might finnally alow me to purchase some cyl heads, Im just wondering what head to go with for a car that gets driven about 15 mi a day (mild modded), and sees the track almost every other week, and i would most likely use the stock cam.

Im thinking of ordering some wp windsor jr.s aluminum 58 cc?

Or how about the roush iron 64 cc? im going 13.50's now on sticky tires, but just ordered some m/t sportman pros for better wet weather handling, but am looking for 13.2's @ 103-104 with just an out of the box affordable head, and leaving my car the same, except for some 373 grs coming shortly. any advice thnx......

[Ponycar_302]

Im thinking of ordering some wp windsor jr.s aluminum 58 cc?

I'm running the cast iron version of the Windsor Jr. I like them. I think the 64 cc heads would be more of a hinderance than a help on a mostly stock motor. OK, so I'm not much help. Please see sig.

[Coupe5oh]

thnx, i have always heard good things about wp heads, i think your right, for a mostly stock motor the 58cc might be best.

The 58 cc might maintain more compression if i remember correctly, thats why im asking, im not sure, the most i might do is gears, and longtubes after the swap, and a cam later on in the future.

[Unit 5302]

With a 58cc combustion chamber on stock pistons, you'll be looking at a compression ratio of about 9.75:1. With 64cc, you'll maintain the stock 8.9:1 CR.

If you ever plan on adding a power adder, I would use the 64cc chamber heads. You may have to back your timing off a little.

[ultraflo]

If you're gonna do the work yourself, I would change the cam while you got it apart, if the budgie allows.

I would like the 58cc heads and a mild cam, but if you plan on a blower the bigger chambered heads are it. A small nitrous kit would work good with the 58cc's... sounds like fun actually!

my 2 pennies on the scenario...

[Coupe5oh]

Thnx, I realize the cam would be easier to install while the heads are off, I might go with a trickflow stage 1 cam, wait longer and do it at once, since i might have to pay an engine builder, after my welds, and m/t sportpros come in, the n20 will be ordered,(with a 190 fuel pump) im gonna try my luck with a 100 shot.

thanx again, but i want as much compression i can get with the head swap, without milling.

[ultraflo]

I couldn't agree with you more, and apologize if I might have insulted your intelligence by stating the obvious...

What nitrous kit are you interested in?

I recommend the Nitrous Express (aka NX) EFI single nozzle kit, some nitrous and fuel pressure gauges from NX, and an adj. fuel pressure regulator...

Just trying to be of some help, I'm not exactly the brightest individual you've come across

Good Luck with the spray (and your mods)

Later

[PKRWUD]

Just to clarify, your current compression is actually about 8.8:1, when you allow for the space above the rings, and the compressed head gasket. If you opt for the 64cc heads, this will remain unchanged. If you install 58cc heads, your actual compression will go up to 9.4:1, which, by itself, would increase your horsepower by about 18 hp. Switching to aluminum heads would also shave 60 pounds off the engine, and permit higher compression than iron heads would.

Take care,
-Chris

[ultraflo]

Space above the rings? Are you referring to the piston to cylinder wall clearance just above the top ring or does what you're saying have something to do with the deck height of the block (My motor from the factory had a zero deck height as does the combo I have now)

That's very interesting indeed...
I've never computed a CR by cc'n the head with the gasket and all that, that's Smoky Yunick stuff there!

So when ordering a set of custom pistons from say, JE, and they ask me what the cc on my heads are, when I tell them I would like a set of 10.5-1 slugs are they factoring in all of the tolerances you've mentioned?

[PKRWUD]

Depends on how good you are at communicating with JE.


The '87 - '93 5.0 HO was advertised as having 9.1:1 compression.

B.S.

It works something like this:

Typical E7TE heads have an honest 64cc combustion chamber.

The area above the rings, but below the deck, at TDC, plus the area from the 4 valve notches in the piston, total 5.5cc.

Average thickness of a crushed head gasket is .047". That equals 9.68cc.

Add those three up, and you get 79.19cc.

Add to that the swept volume of the cylinder (617.78cc), and you get 696.97cc total cylinder/combustion chamber volume.

Divide that by everything BUT the swept volume (79.19);
696.97/79.19 = 8.8

Therefore the compression ratio is really 8.8:1

To increase the compression back up again, you could straight cut the head.

Cutting .010" would reduce the combustion chamber size to 62.4cc, and would increase the compression to 8.96:1.

Cutting .020" would reduce it to 60.92cc, and increase compression to 9.12:1.

Cutting .025" would reduce it to 60.15cc, and increase compression to 9.2:1.

Cutting .030" would reduce it to 59.38cc, and increase comp. to 9.3:1.

Cutting .035" ------------------------58.61cc, ----------------------------9.37:1.

Cutting .040" ------------------------57.84cc, ----------------------------9.46:1.

Does that help?

Take care,
-Chris

[Dark_5.0]

PKRWUD .....Your tha man!

[ultraflo]

Yes, I understand...

I understand that you are a madman!! (that's a good thing)

Having someone on this list like yourself is truly a benefit, even though you build vehicles that have trouble finding the finish line and spend hours trying to find it!!!

Just playin

I DRAG my car behind my truck more than I drive it, so there!

Thanks!!!

You'll probably be interested in seeing some belt drive photos that I hope to have posted in about an hour or so...

Later

[Coupe5oh]

No doubt, you guys rock!! about the nos, im probaly going to go with a TNT kit (texas nitrous technology) they are very reputable, and many stangs and f-bods use this kit, there rated hp kits actually rate at the rear wheels, so a 100 shot will give me somewhere around 100 at the wheels!! yes im preparing for the nos, FPR, 1.7 crane rockers, longtubes, and of course the heads, aluminum jr.s, this wont all happen at once, but a guy has to have a plan you know....thnx a whole lot!!

going for low low 12's

[5ohCOUPE]

Here is another point about the windsor jr. heads. I love them, but, definately do the cam and lifters while the heads are off because with the windsor jr heads you cant get the 4 corner lifters out of the engine without pulling the heads. Just a good thing to know. Or, you can do what I did and grind a little off of the heads and dont have to worry about it.

[Unit 5302]

Yeah, my 8.9:1 didn't take into consideration the head gasket thickness.

[PKRWUD]

Hehe, actually, if the head gasket were eliminated all together, the compression would be 9.89:1!

Take care,
-Chris

[Coupe5oh]

Originally posted by 5ohCOUPE
Here is another point about the windsor jr. heads. I love them, but, definately do the cam and lifters while the heads are off because with the windsor jr heads you cant get the 4 corner lifters out of the engine without pulling the heads. Just a good thing to know. Or, you can do what I did and grind a little off of the heads and dont have to worry about it.

Thanx for the input, but dont the stock lifters last a good while, and alright to be reused? im trying to do it right trust me, but also as cheap as possible, tired of getting pulled the last 200 ft bye f-bodies with just simple mods.

[ultraflo]

Your hyd. rollers are can be reused on a new cam, but how many miles have you racked up on em; that would be my main concern...

If your not planning on reving past 5500-6000rpms you shouldn't have to worry about a thang!

But then again, it certainly won't hurt to swap out the old ones while you're in there. One less thing you'll have to worry about!

Ultimately it's up to YOU

Good Luck!

[Coupe5oh]

Yea i plan on staying around 5800 if i can, i dont think i will rev much past that, depending on cam....thnx