Gathering info on roll cage installation.

Fox Body · 02-24-2002, 10:31 PM

I just spent some time at Jeff Chamber's website in the roll cage install section, and that helped. Still got some general questions for those of you who have gotten a roll cage (8 point-- which I think is the one required for NHRA events?) installed. A friend of mine who is an experienced welder wants to get some questions answered. If it works out, he'll install the cage for me:

1) What type of metal is the cage? Well, Jeff kinda answered this one on the site. On his site, Jeff talks about S&W Race Cars' "mild steel version..." being "... heavier than its chromoly sibling..." cage (I had already been planning to buy one from S&W--whose cage is currently on sale now for $109, down from $150.

2) Total, how much the does cage weigh?

3) For a coup like mine, what will happen to the rear seat and how will the front seats be affected by the cage installation. Eg, will I still have the full range of adjustment for leg room?

4) Where are the areas that the 5-point harness, that I will get at the same time, attach to?

5) Any other things I should know. ANything that knowing now could save trouble in the long run?

6) Swing out bars are NHRA legal on both passenger and driver side, correct?

7) Does the roll cage assembly come with instructions?

Jeff, if you read this, thanks a lot for your article. It helps me out. I am envious of your car man.

I really appreciate anyone who answers my questions. I will call S&W soon and ask them pretty much the same thing I aske you all. I am just trying to gather info from both sides of the coin (the dealer and customer).

Coupe Devil · 02-25-2002, 12:51 AM

Hey man. I just got my S&W cage last week. Its not in yet but so Far I am very satisfied with the service and support of the S&W staff. I ordered my cage wednesday before last. I got it on monday. It wasnt supposed to be here until Thursday. It did come with instructions. Iwould highly suggeset you visit Darius's site. Darius's Site He has a S&W cage and has a great picture and article section about it. I would also PM him If I were you. He really helped me when deciding what cage was for me and I'm sure he'd do the same for you.

For your questions,

#1- It is a mild steel blend that is used for many types of cages and bars for racing applications and a bunch of other stuff.

#2- My 8 pt cage from S&W weighed just a little over 100 pounds.

#3- This is a tricky one. Seat adn leg room depends on whrer you place the main hoop. IF you put it where the directions call for you will probably not have full motion of the seats. If you move it to the raised part just under the rear sseat it will give you more room for seats and leg room. (PM Darius On this one)!!!!!!!!!

#4- 5 Pt harness are made to mount to the floor or the roll bar. You just have to specify which you want when you order. I am not sure what the mounting points are however.

#5- Completely remove the interior nad remove all the crap from the floor, (i.e. rubber body sealer and such) I suggest investin in a heat gun for this. It makes it alot easier. Also go to Darius's site and see how he mounted the rear bars to the rear of the car. Yours will go through the Back deck but youcould still mopunt your like he did. I plan on doing mine this way.

#6- I dont think swing out bars are legal at all for competition but could be wrong. I personally wouldnt want them. KNowing all that is holding that bar in in a crash is a little pin, I had just as soon climb over them gettin ing and out of the car.

#7- It did come with instructions and from what I can see are very stright forward and detailed. I have only done a test fit but everything looks A.O.K. from that.

Hope this helps. I'm sure Jeff was helpful but Darius also helped me quite a bit.

Brad

Fox Body · 02-25-2002, 04:59 AM

Man, to be honest, I really didn't expect such a complete answer (I'm gonna print that out). Thanks pony_power. That REALLY helps. I'm gonna look at Darius' (Drudis) site sometime this week and continue to gather info. Thanks again for the time you spent answering my questions.

Jeff Chambers · 02-25-2002, 07:45 AM

I'll see if I can help here too.

1) Mild steel is basically common carbon steel (AISI 1010-1018) that's pretty high in carbon content. NHRA rules dictate that both mild steel and chromoly tubing be 1 3/4" in diameter. Mild steel must be .118" wall tubing while chromoloy must be .083" wall. Mild steel may be TIG or MIG welded, chromoly must be TIG. When welding the pads to the floor of a unibody, there only needs to be a 6"x6"x.125" reinforcing pad on the top (inside) of the floor. If bolting it in, you must have the same size pads, but on BOTH top and bottom, bolted together with four 3/8" diameter Grade 8 bolts.

2) I only installed the S&W as a six-pt, deleting the two subframe bars for the weight savings. Mine weighed out at about 78lbs without those two supports.

3) Seat adjustability is affected like PP says. Rear seat useability is nil, nada, zip after the install. Even my two young boys couldn't get into or out of the rear seat after the bar was installed.

4) 5pt harness. The lap belts use the existing lap belt bolts on the floor. I had tabs welded to the cross bar of the main hoop to attach the shoulder harness. NHRA requires 1/2" diameter bolt here. I attached the submarine belt to the box-beam member where the front seat studs are located. Used a j-nut here. Its not exactly NHRA legal though since they say that the crotch strap must run all the way underneath the seats and attach in the same plane as the lap belts.

5) Get yourself a copy of the NHRA rule book before your welder goes to work. There are some key details on the placement of the bars for it to be legal. Also, loosen but do not remove the rear interior side panels. If your welder can work with them in place its all the better; because after the bar is in you might not be able to put them back in without breaking/cutting them. I know of several who discovered this the hard way. Welding at the top of the main hoop is the hardest; without burning the head liner. Tell your welder not to grind on any of the welds when he's done (to make them look purtier). This is a real no-no by NHRA rules and some tracks are real sticklers about it.

6) NHRA only requires a 5-pt installation of the bar for 11.00 and above. The passenger side bar can be left out completely. Swing-outs are legal for NHRA (again for 11.00 and up) and there's no distinction between the swing out for the driver and passenger (probably since 5-pt is all that's required).

7) Mine didn't.

Skyman · 02-25-2002, 03:51 PM

Are you sure you really want a cage?

I HATE MINE.

Skyler

Fox Body · 02-25-2002, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Skyman
Are you sure you really want a cage?
I HATE MINE.
Skyler

That is a totally valid point sky, thanks for your opinion. I am not overjoyed about getting one either, but I dont' mind TOO much. What do you hate about it?

Jeff, thanks for all the advice, man. and I will get the NHRA rule book.

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02-24-2002, 10:31 PM	#1
Fox Body Mustang Maniac Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: GA, U.S.A Posts: 2,266	Gathering info on roll cage installation. I just spent some time at Jeff Chamber's website in the roll cage install section, and that helped. Still got some general questions for those of you who have gotten a roll cage (8 point-- which I think is the one required for NHRA events?) installed. A friend of mine who is an experienced welder wants to get some questions answered. If it works out, he'll install the cage for me: 1) What type of metal is the cage? Well, Jeff kinda answered this one on the site. On his site, Jeff talks about S&W Race Cars' "mild steel version..." being "... heavier than its chromoly sibling..." cage (I had already been planning to buy one from S&W--whose cage is currently on sale now for $109, down from $150. 2) Total, how much the does cage weigh? 3) For a coup like mine, what will happen to the rear seat and how will the front seats be affected by the cage installation. Eg, will I still have the full range of adjustment for leg room? 4) Where are the areas that the 5-point harness, that I will get at the same time, attach to? 5) Any other things I should know. ANything that knowing now could save trouble in the long run? 6) Swing out bars are NHRA legal on both passenger and driver side, correct? 7) Does the roll cage assembly come with instructions? Jeff, if you read this, thanks a lot for your article. It helps me out. I am envious of your car man. I really appreciate anyone who answers my questions. I will call S&W soon and ask them pretty much the same thing I aske you all. I am just trying to gather info from both sides of the coin (the dealer and customer). __________________ 351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang Ghia notchback '79 Video @ Idle Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl 'glass hood, C4 w/ Transgo shift kit, Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake; Fluidyne Al radiator, Flexalite 175 electric fan, 1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, FRPP Al driveshaft; S&W 6-point cage; 2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters, 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s; Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 275/50/15 Nitto NT 555R Drag Radials; 14 x 4” K&N X-stream air filter. '92 GT (5-speed) Small In Car Video Stock 5.0L, 2-chamber Flowmasters, MAC CAI, Tri-Ax, Al pedals... "Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

02-25-2002, 12:51 AM	#2
Coupe Devil Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Myrtle Beach SC Posts: 1,643	Hey man. I just got my S&W cage last week. Its not in yet but so Far I am very satisfied with the service and support of the S&W staff. I ordered my cage wednesday before last. I got it on monday. It wasnt supposed to be here until Thursday. It did come with instructions. Iwould highly suggeset you visit Darius's site. Darius's Site He has a S&W cage and has a great picture and article section about it. I would also PM him If I were you. He really helped me when deciding what cage was for me and I'm sure he'd do the same for you. For your questions, #1- It is a mild steel blend that is used for many types of cages and bars for racing applications and a bunch of other stuff. #2- My 8 pt cage from S&W weighed just a little over 100 pounds. #3- This is a tricky one. Seat adn leg room depends on whrer you place the main hoop. IF you put it where the directions call for you will probably not have full motion of the seats. If you move it to the raised part just under the rear sseat it will give you more room for seats and leg room. (PM Darius On this one)!!!!!!!!! #4- 5 Pt harness are made to mount to the floor or the roll bar. You just have to specify which you want when you order. I am not sure what the mounting points are however. #5- Completely remove the interior nad remove all the crap from the floor, (i.e. rubber body sealer and such) I suggest investin in a heat gun for this. It makes it alot easier. Also go to Darius's site and see how he mounted the rear bars to the rear of the car. Yours will go through the Back deck but youcould still mopunt your like he did. I plan on doing mine this way. #6- I dont think swing out bars are legal at all for competition but could be wrong. I personally wouldnt want them. KNowing all that is holding that bar in in a crash is a little pin, I had just as soon climb over them gettin ing and out of the car. #7- It did come with instructions and from what I can see are very stright forward and detailed. I have only done a test fit but everything looks A.O.K. from that. Hope this helps. I'm sure Jeff was helpful but Darius also helped me quite a bit. Brad __________________ 1990 GT, 347, TFS TW Heads, TFS Cam, TFS Track heat, Twin turbos, FMIC, T5. Built Ford Tough Moderator

02-25-2002, 04:59 AM	#3
Fox Body Mustang Maniac Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: GA, U.S.A Posts: 2,266	Man, to be honest, I really didn't expect such a complete answer (I'm gonna print that out). Thanks pony_power. That REALLY helps. I'm gonna look at Darius' (Drudis) site sometime this week and continue to gather info. Thanks again for the time you spent answering my questions. __________________ 351W-powered 1979 Ford Mustang Ghia notchback '79 Video @ Idle Stock 5.8L under 4" cowl 'glass hood, C4 w/ Transgo shift kit, Holley 750 cfm, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake; Fluidyne Al radiator, Flexalite 175 electric fan, 1 5/8" MAC shorty headers, FRPP Al driveshaft; S&W 6-point cage; 2.5" Off road H-pipe, 2-chamber Flowmasters, 8.8" Rear w/ 3.55s; Weld wheels (15x6;15x8), Front: 225/60/15, Rear: 275/50/15 Nitto NT 555R Drag Radials; 14 x 4” K&N X-stream air filter. '92 GT (5-speed) Small In Car Video Stock 5.0L, 2-chamber Flowmasters, MAC CAI, Tri-Ax, Al pedals... "Red, thou art my companion. Hasten now your quickened metamorphosis to Green that I may conquer all who dare abide there beside me. May they be left thither behind burnt black." ---Fox Body

02-25-2002, 07:45 AM	#4
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	I'll see if I can help here too. 1) Mild steel is basically common carbon steel (AISI 1010-1018) that's pretty high in carbon content. NHRA rules dictate that both mild steel and chromoly tubing be 1 3/4" in diameter. Mild steel must be .118" wall tubing while chromoloy must be .083" wall. Mild steel may be TIG or MIG welded, chromoly must be TIG. When welding the pads to the floor of a unibody, there only needs to be a 6"x6"x.125" reinforcing pad on the top (inside) of the floor. If bolting it in, you must have the same size pads, but on BOTH top and bottom, bolted together with four 3/8" diameter Grade 8 bolts. 2) I only installed the S&W as a six-pt, deleting the two subframe bars for the weight savings. Mine weighed out at about 78lbs without those two supports. 3) Seat adjustability is affected like PP says. Rear seat useability is nil, nada, zip after the install. Even my two young boys couldn't get into or out of the rear seat after the bar was installed. 4) 5pt harness. The lap belts use the existing lap belt bolts on the floor. I had tabs welded to the cross bar of the main hoop to attach the shoulder harness. NHRA requires 1/2" diameter bolt here. I attached the submarine belt to the box-beam member where the front seat studs are located. Used a j-nut here. Its not exactly NHRA legal though since they say that the crotch strap must run all the way underneath the seats and attach in the same plane as the lap belts. 5) Get yourself a copy of the NHRA rule book before your welder goes to work. There are some key details on the placement of the bars for it to be legal. Also, loosen but do not remove the rear interior side panels. If your welder can work with them in place its all the better; because after the bar is in you might not be able to put them back in without breaking/cutting them. I know of several who discovered this the hard way. Welding at the top of the main hoop is the hardest; without burning the head liner. Tell your welder not to grind on any of the welds when he's done (to make them look purtier). This is a real no-no by NHRA rules and some tracks are real sticklers about it. 6) NHRA only requires a 5-pt installation of the bar for 11.00 and above. The passenger side bar can be left out completely. Swing-outs are legal for NHRA (again for 11.00 and up) and there's no distinction between the swing out for the driver and passenger (probably since 5-pt is all that's required). 7) Mine didn't. __________________ Jeff Chambers 1990 Mustang GT 10.032 Seconds / 137.5 MPH 14-time Street Warrior World Record Setter CRT Performance 2001 Tropic Green Mustang GT - 12.181 / 113.2 MPH 2002 Ford F-250 Crew Cab 7.3l Power Stroke - 17.41@77.2 "There's nothing boring about a small block automatic shifting gears at 9400 rpm!"

02-25-2002, 03:51 PM	#5
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Are you sure you really want a cage? I HATE MINE. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.