AFR 165's or other heads with cam and stock induction

[Mustang_GT_90]

I was just wondering if anyone had tried putting AFR 165's or other heads on a stock 302 HO with a cam and keeping the stock induction. I'm kind of up in the air on whether I want to carb my car or keep it injected so I'm thinking about going ahead and putting cam and heads then deciding later.
I'm cranking 13.30s on stock motor and 12.40s on spray. I've got some suspension stuff on the way and I'm counting on low low 13s or high 12s on the stock motor when I can make it stop spinning next season. I'd like to go ahead and push it into the 12s on motor though. The stock injectors are rated to what like 330-350 horse something like that but I'd say that's with 100% efficiency. AFR did this setup on a stock 95 GT with stock everything and they got like 60 horse but they also had the stock cam. I've got headers and some other stuff they had on there build list when they got 100 horse out at the wheels with the head swap.
I just thought it'd be interesting to see if anybody had tried this before they did induction stuff(intake, injectors, tb...) and what kind of numbers they were cranking.
If you guys have done anything like this with another brand of head too that information would be great as well. Dyno results, ET's and gains whatever ya got.
Thanks in advance.

[Dark_5.0]

Yes I have seen people do that but IMO......The stock induction will choke your heads down alot and you will not get the performance gain you were hoping for.

The explorer intake outflows the stock intake by alot and you can pick therm up for $200.00 all the time.

Later,

[88workcar]

It will be fine, and when you do put the intake, you will be able to tell everyone that it is good for a half sec.

[Mustang_GT_90]

Yeah that'd be the funny way of looking at it, take the AFR's and paint them so nobody knows what they are and slap some greese on them could be fun to blow peoples minds at the track...
but seriously the whole thing with this is I don't know how extreme I wanna go on this car. It's pretty much a "virgin" 60 K miles black interior very very very nice car. My friends are all wanting me to carb it and go all out and I'm not wanting to go that extreme on it because it's just too nice to mess up.
I'm thinking for this next season I slip a set of heads on it along with a small cam, E-Cam or TrickFlow, and I can easilly push it down into the 11s on the bottle. I mean the thing is full weight and went 12.44 with a 1.85 60'. I'm redoing the suspension so if I get it to hook coming off the line I'm looking at high 1.60s or so, I've gone 1.74 with the stock suspension. So then that with a perfect run is going to put it into the 12.3s to 12.20s on the bottle.
I mean it wouldn't take much of a head but I want to go ahead and put some on there that is gonna support whatever I decide to do later. I can always do some port work on the stock intake to help it out, I was just hoping somebody could throw out some numbers like "I went .4 quicker with just the head and nothing else then when I put an intake I went .6" or something like that.
Oh well I'm thinking about this way to much.
Seriously though thanks for the replies you guys have given me sor far. I'm hoping somebody will come in and have some actual numbers.

[88workcar]

I didn't want to say this but, oh well. Cory's car is an 89 lx. We put a holly intake, stock tb, stock rockers, AFR165s, a comp cam HR266, and a set of 22lb mopar injectors, and a FPR. Now this car is not been tweeked out by any means. It went from 13.30 @ 100 to a 12.0 @ 113. I hope this helps.

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by Mustang_GT_90
90 Mustang, full weight, 5 speed, pulleys, 3.73 gears...
13.33@101 mph on stock motor and DOT's

Let me get this straight .. you are turning low 13's on for all practical purposes a bone stock 302 ??? Far be it for me to question it, but my feble mind tells me if thats what the time slip says then somebody better take a tape measure to the drag strip your running at cause my guess would be its 150 feet or so short

[Mustang_GT_90]

Yes I am, on a BONE STOCK 302 with headers and slicks. It's not that uncommon. Go to the site and look at the time slips. I was afraid something like this would get started because there are several people on this board that don't belive it can be done....
You take a stock mustang with a gear, you put a set of slicks on it with some free flowing exhaust and set the timing up to 14-15 degrees(more in my case), you pull to the line tach it to 4500, second yellow light hits, gas hits the floor and you sidestep the clutch, you'd be amazed at what one will do when you come off the line at around 5000.
Oh yeah, here's my slips so I guess you'd better get the tape.
http://www.stanggang.com/members/jos...ips/index.html

[Mustang_GT_90]

Oh yeah 88WorkCar, thanks for the numbers man that's the kind of info I was looking for. Just for curiosity's sake I'm into mopar's too, what'd you get those injectors out of?

[Coupe50h]

yea, i completely believe it, look at my e.t, i am in low 13's, i still have stock: heads, intake, tb, maf. no porting, except a little polishing on the upper.

mods are in sig, but the shorty headers, and 1.7 rr's really woke me up, also im still on hwy type gears, motor is pretty high on miles, car is light, but full interior, i do however get nasty on the launch on e.t. streeets, my clutch is probaly hurting already.

stang gt 90, what shot are you spraying? 125? im ready for at least a 100 shot myself, and keep the gears for these pesky supras down here, btw, carb's are fast, but dont butcher your car mang....

[Mustang_GT_90]

That's cool Coupe Cars are wicked quick they're so much lighter to start with they've got a big advantage. I'm spraying 150 with a Nitrous Works kit. I was spraying 125 then I talked to the guys at nitrous works (owned by Barry Grant) and they told me to go ahead and throw the 150s in because a 150 shot is like 123 hp or something like that at the wheels.
I think I could get down into the 12.2 range on the spray if my car would hook. What I've done is I'm running on Hoosier Quicktime Pro DOT's. I do my burnout and arm the nitrous after that, I've got everything hooked to an MSD window switch which I think is a must for a straight shift car, one missed gear and boom.
I pull up to the line get staged and on nitrous I rev the car to 3500 and hold it. When the last light lights I floor it and dump the clutch at the same time. The nitrous is on a WOT switch so as soon as the pedal hits the floor and as long as the car is above 3000 it sprays and you're gone. Then I just shift, I've been granny shifting but just shifting quick. I've done it speed shifting the only thing is it blows the tires in second and third and really slows me down. I've also tried other types of launching but that seems to work the best. I've tried coming out at 4500+ just like I do on motor and we've also tried launching on motor and rolling out then spraying it but it still just blows the tires when the nitrous hits. Overall the 3500 RPM thing seems to work the best.
What kind of ET gain did you get out of those 1.7 rockers?

[90GT Vert]

you launch at 4500 and don't snap the axles? damn good job


nice 1/4 times, what do you shift it? I have a stock 5.0 I shift around 5k rpm's....

[Mustang_GT_90]

Yeah, most of the people I know are launching like this without having problems. I know somebody pulling 1.60, 60' with the stock axles. The stock T5 seems to go before the axles.
I shift at 4900 on motor, when I'm running on motor the gas doesn't come off the floor for the entire pass.
On nitrous I've tried 5500, 4900, and every where in between. Last time I was at the track the 12.44 came from 5200 RPM. Seems to be about right.

[Coupe50h]

Yea 1.7's helped me break into the 100+ mph, just feels like it pulls better on the top,

Yea im needing suspension right no, i have an order out for some lakewood lower cntrl arms, i leave the line at 4000 and sometimes hook, sometime's it will spin a little on a powershift into 2nd, only thing going good for that area is the subframe connectors.... when it does hook it usually results in low 13's, im not worried about breaking an axle yet, if i was spraying 150 i would you should get a m/t 26x8.5 slick, you can probaly hit 12.0 pretty easy.
whats involved in the nitrous window switch install?

[Mustang_GT_90]

I just got a set of Lakewood 90/10 for the front and 50/50s for the back and I'm getting adjustable uppers and solid lowers. Hopefully that will help out somewhat because my car transfers no weight. It stays pretty much the same height off the the line and down the track.
The MSD Window Switch is a little box that takes pills like the rev limiter stuff and the MSD boxes. It turns something on at a certain RPM and turns it off at another. You adjust that by putting rpm "pills" in it. How it works is you just wire it in with ground so that your nitrous relay grounds through it. Mine is wired so that the switching stuff triggers the ground side of the relay.
I've got it wired so that one side of the window switch is going to the WOT switch on the TB. The other side of the wot switch comes out and goes to the ground side of the coil on the relay. The hot side of that coil is through my arming switch inside the car.
When you arm it the relay has hot to one side but no ground. Then when you floor it and the switch gets to 3000 RPM, it gets ground through the wide open throttle switch.
That way the nitrous is only spraying from 3000-6000 when the car is to the floor. If your foot comes off the floor it cuts out, and if you over rev and miss a gear nitrous cuts off. It should be set lower to probably around 5500 or so but I was experimenting with my shift points and stuff. The MSD switch is almost a must for saftey on a straight shift car if you ask me.
We've actually thought about putting a set of wider slicks on my car and probably will next season to see what the difference is. Mine are like 9.8" wide I think I can't remember off the top of my head. I've tried them all the way down to 10 PSI and they still spin off the line but I'm thinking that has a lot to do with the rest of my suspension. The springs that are on it somebody heated and it killed them so the suspension is unbelivably stiff.

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by Mustang_GT_90
Yes I am, on a BONE STOCK 302 with headers and slicks. It's not that uncommon. Go to the site and look at the time slips.

I don't doubt your honesty or that you have time slips that say 13.30's GT_90. What puzzles me is how a bone stock hemi cuda turns 13.40's, a SS 454 chevelle turns 13.70's, a ZL-1 427 camaro turns 13.60's, a Boss 429 mustang turns 14.00's and a stock 302 mustang is turning 13.30's ? Somebody explain that to me ???

[Coupe50h]

Im probaly going to get a zex kit and just try and not miss grs, and will only spray 100-125, thnx for the window info though,
i talked to a guy at the track with a coupe, similar to yours on simple mods, he had 1.7's longtubes, and 373, but he went 12.1@ 116, 125 shot, but told me he gained a tenth with a bottle warmer, take it easy...........

[Mustang_GT_90]

HotRoddin,
Man don't ask me how it just does it. I'm an old car (Mopar) buff too. Hemi Cuda's can crank a lot quicker than 13.40s on slicks I've seen automatic cars go 12.40s. I've got a friend with another GT that was lightnened and he ran it without a belt and iced the intake and went 12.90s stock. Something you have to look at too is like somebody with a REAL hemi cuda that is stock restored it's worth what around $100,000 if not more? They're not gonna flog the heck out of that car at the track like somebody with a mustang that you can find them easilly.
I know several people who are running this kind of time, the only thing I can tell you is it's all in the launch. Most people go and run there cars and they just kind of take off and spin and everything. I once read somewhere on the internet on a website for "How to make your stock mustang run 12s" I can't remember what that site was, the dude said "If you're afraid to launch your car from 4000, leave it at home"
That's the only thing I can say, it's works.

[Coupe50h]

I agree, im hard on the launch, and thats how im anywhere in the low 13's, my last t-5 crapped out, and i blame it on launching so hard, however, my new rebuilt t-5 is holding up fine (knock on wood)....

[88workcar]

Hot Rodden, Cory's car went 13.30s on a stock motor with 4.10s and exhast. Nothing more. For any of you non-believers, if any one brings me a stock mustang, drive it here. We can take the motor out, put it in my car. If it don't run in the twelves you can have my car, my motor, and anything mustang related thats here. As long as it isn't a hurt limping car.
I launch hard also, 5000 on the motor, 4000 on the gas.
Mustang 90 GT, you need 4cyl springs on your car. The injectors are from a 318 dakota, He has my 24lb ford ones that I can not use ( speed density). When I get them back, they will go in Cory's car.
It's post such as this that get me pumped up I think that even though I have the money for alum heads, I am going to get the E7's from POWER HEADS just so I can say that I run 11s all motor with E7s

[Mustang_GT_90]

Yup 4 cylinder springs should do it, a buddy of mine hooked me up with a set of them for the back end today. I'm gonna leave the stock cut ones up front hopefully that will help me out some.
What about the rear swaybar, my friend that gave me those was cranking way into the 11s with his pulling some 1.5 60's and he said that taking his rear swaybar off killed him, made the car launch crooked. I took the front one off long ago for weight transfer out of the hole but I'm still running the back one along with the quad shocks. I was planning on dropping it along with my quads when I bolt on my upper and lower control arms.
Any suggestions anyone? Will dropping it make me launch crooked?
I know a lot of aftermarket lowers don't have a provision for the rear swaybar so this has kind of got me wondering now.