AFR or Trick Flow Heads

NitroNixon · 08-31-2004, 12:37 PM

I have $1100 cash to spend on heads. Which heads would you recommend for my stock shortblock 302? I check the flow rates on both heads and it seems the trick flow (twisted Wedge) heads flow alittle better that the AFR 165s. I kinda have my mind set on the AFR's.

Can anyone recommend a good place the buy them from?

ols0051 · 08-31-2004, 01:21 PM

afr165's would be my choice.

88fivepointoh · 08-31-2004, 01:49 PM

The TrickFlows are great heads and I don't know anyone who has them that isn't happy. Everyone I know is happy as hell with the heads...

~The Jester~ · 09-01-2004, 03:37 PM

Don't you need new headers with the TW heads? I always thought you did. IMHO I like AFR's better than Trick Flow, but don't forget about us "yankee's" either....... CANFIELD

Also for about HALF the money, since your engine is all stock. I HIGHLY recommend finding a set of Windsor Sr. or Roush heads. Yes, they're iron, but an outstanding all around head. I had a set of Windsor Sr (Dart) on a stock 1980 shortblock in the 11's dude!

NitroNixon · 09-01-2004, 04:03 PM

I seen a pair of Windor aluminum heads a few days ago at my local speed shop. I couldn't tell if they were JR's or SR's. The ports were huge. The shop wanted $999 for them new. Would these perform better that the iron windsor SR heads?

NitroNixon · 09-01-2004, 04:21 PM

I called the speed shop, and they said that they are Aluminum Windsor Jr Heads, priced at $999. They are complete as well. Do you think this is a good price for that head? What are the flow numbers on these heads. I don't see them on the head flow comparison chart I have.

88fivepointoh · 09-01-2004, 04:22 PM

If there ported then sure and you will loose the extra heavy weight from the iron heads..

NitroNixon · 09-01-2004, 04:50 PM

No, I'm not sure if they are ported, but the ports looked huge.

~The Jester~ · 09-01-2004, 05:10 PM

Are you sure he's not talking about Victor Jr heads for a Windsor??? Basically heads for a Windsor engine have 1/2" holes instead of a 302's 7/16" holes. Not an issue, you just need little "top hats" for your 7/16" head bolts, no big deal at all.

I was under the assumption that all true "Windsor Sr" heads cast by Dart, then later cast by World Products, then ulitmately the Roush 200 head, were all iron. I could be wrong on this one, but I'm almost 100% sure.

Problem with a stock motor, you don't want to go TOO huge with the ports. Then you need a huge carb to fill them up, keep up the port velocity, and then your little 302 won't be able to burn all that fuel/air.

I would find a decent set of heads, nothing too radical. Then spend the rest of my money on a "B" or "E" cam. That'll really show on the "ass dyno", if you know what I mean. hehehehe

NitroNixon · 09-02-2004, 07:38 AM

The guy told me that they are Windsor Jr heads w/ 1.9-1.6 valves. And they are aluminum. I've checked around on Ebay as well to see what's for sell.

88fivepointoh · 09-02-2004, 12:50 PM

i agree with what jester said on this one.. To big is not good.

crazypete · 09-02-2004, 02:51 PM

Velocity is somewhat as important as flow. Thats why lets say the gt-40p has smaller exhaust valves than the gt40 but has better power numbers: the extra velocity. If you get huge ports and your engine isnt some overbored stroker, you'll probably have terrible low end- midrange throttle response. Up top, it'll be great but down low, it will suffer.

NitroNixon · 09-02-2004, 03:10 PM

Thanks,

I think I'll just go with the GT40p heads and have them ported.

Rev · 09-02-2004, 06:26 PM

I agonized for months over whether to get TFTW or AFR 165's. The AFR 165's are fully CNC ported with 1.94/160 valves. The TFTW have 2.02/1.60 valves but are not fully ported but are cleanly cast. I finally chose the TFTW heads and had them "pocket ported" for anothewr $150.

One advantage of the TFTW heads is that they have the rocker cover rail raised about 1/4" so that you can use stock height valve covers even with full roller rockers with poly-locks. You may have to buy new tall valve covers to use RR's on other heads. That saves about $150.

The TFTW heads are made with the exhaust ports in the standard positons and so use standard headers. Its the TrickFlow R series heads I believe that need custom headers due to raised exhaust ports. At any rate, The TFTW heads have worked well for me. I do believe that the AFR 165 heads would have worked just as well. I doubt that I would have been able to tell the difference performance-wise.

Rev

08-31-2004, 12:37 PM	#1
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	AFR or Trick Flow Heads I have $1100 cash to spend on heads. Which heads would you recommend for my stock shortblock 302? I check the flow rates on both heads and it seems the trick flow (twisted Wedge) heads flow alittle better that the AFR 165s. I kinda have my mind set on the AFR's. Can anyone recommend a good place the buy them from? __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

09-01-2004, 03:37 PM	#4
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	Don't you need new headers with the TW heads? I always thought you did. IMHO I like AFR's better than Trick Flow, but don't forget about us "yankee's" either....... CANFIELD Also for about HALF the money, since your engine is all stock. I HIGHLY recommend finding a set of Windsor Sr. or Roush heads. Yes, they're iron, but an outstanding all around head. I had a set of Windsor Sr (Dart) on a stock 1980 shortblock in the 11's dude! __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....

09-01-2004, 04:03 PM	#5
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	I seen a pair of Windor aluminum heads a few days ago at my local speed shop. I couldn't tell if they were JR's or SR's. The ports were huge. The shop wanted $999 for them new. Would these perform better that the iron windsor SR heads? __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

09-01-2004, 04:21 PM	#6
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	I called the speed shop, and they said that they are Aluminum Windsor Jr Heads, priced at $999. They are complete as well. Do you think this is a good price for that head? What are the flow numbers on these heads. I don't see them on the head flow comparison chart I have. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

09-01-2004, 04:50 PM	#8
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	No, I'm not sure if they are ported, but the ports looked huge. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

08-31-2004, 01:21 PM	#2
ols0051 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: cent.wis Posts: 203	afr165's would be my choice.

08-31-2004, 01:49 PM	#3
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	The TrickFlows are great heads and I don't know anyone who has them that isn't happy. Everyone I know is happy as hell with the heads...

09-01-2004, 04:22 PM	#7
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	If there ported then sure and you will loose the extra heavy weight from the iron heads..

09-01-2004, 05:10 PM	#9
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	Are you sure he's not talking about Victor Jr heads for a Windsor??? Basically heads for a Windsor engine have 1/2" holes instead of a 302's 7/16" holes. Not an issue, you just need little "top hats" for your 7/16" head bolts, no big deal at all. I was under the assumption that all true "Windsor Sr" heads cast by Dart, then later cast by World Products, then ulitmately the Roush 200 head, were all iron. I could be wrong on this one, but I'm almost 100% sure. Problem with a stock motor, you don't want to go TOO huge with the ports. Then you need a huge carb to fill them up, keep up the port velocity, and then your little 302 won't be able to burn all that fuel/air. I would find a decent set of heads, nothing too radical. Then spend the rest of my money on a "B" or "E" cam. That'll really show on the "ass dyno", if you know what I mean. hehehehe __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....

09-02-2004, 07:38 AM	#10
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	The guy told me that they are Windsor Jr heads w/ 1.9-1.6 valves. And they are aluminum. I've checked around on Ebay as well to see what's for sell. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

09-02-2004, 12:50 PM	#11
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	i agree with what jester said on this one.. To big is not good.

09-02-2004, 02:51 PM	#12
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Velocity is somewhat as important as flow. Thats why lets say the gt-40p has smaller exhaust valves than the gt40 but has better power numbers: the extra velocity. If you get huge ports and your engine isnt some overbored stroker, you'll probably have terrible low end- midrange throttle response. Up top, it'll be great but down low, it will suffer. __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

09-02-2004, 03:10 PM	#13
NitroNixon Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: DC Posts: 129	Thanks, I think I'll just go with the GT40p heads and have them ported. __________________ 87 GT As of 2/1/06 650 DP Carb Crosswind Intake Edelbrock Performer Heads 97 Explorer Bottomend w/ B-303 Cam 1.7 Roller Rockers Flowtech Longtube Headers Flowtech H-Pipe MSD Black Wires MSD ignition MSD Distributor Blaster 3 Coil Electric Fan Underdrive Pullies T5 Trans Hurst Shifter Lowered 1.5" 373 Gears

09-02-2004, 06:26 PM	#14
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	TFTW I agonized for months over whether to get TFTW or AFR 165's. The AFR 165's are fully CNC ported with 1.94/160 valves. The TFTW have 2.02/1.60 valves but are not fully ported but are cleanly cast. I finally chose the TFTW heads and had them "pocket ported" for anothewr $150. One advantage of the TFTW heads is that they have the rocker cover rail raised about 1/4" so that you can use stock height valve covers even with full roller rockers with poly-locks. You may have to buy new tall valve covers to use RR's on other heads. That saves about $150. The TFTW heads are made with the exhaust ports in the standard positons and so use standard headers. Its the TrickFlow R series heads I believe that need custom headers due to raised exhaust ports. At any rate, The TFTW heads have worked well for me. I do believe that the AFR 165 heads would have worked just as well. I doubt that I would have been able to tell the difference performance-wise. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

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