which alphabet cam
 

I have Trick Flow TW Aluminum heads, Arias 10:1 pistons, trick flow intake, and longtube headers (among other minor bolt ons). Which alphabet cam is best for me? (B,E,F,X,Z, etc)

(Ps. I dont have the blower anymore)

Although most people will tell you to just stick with the stock cam cause an aftermarket cam wont make much difference with stock heads........I say go with the B-cam, I think it matches your combo the best. Some guys knock off a tenth or two with the B-cam on stock heads, and it has a nice lumpy idle.

Later,

If you have to stick with an alphabet cam, get the F cam. It has nice #'s and you should see better power than the B and E cams. But, personally I would get a Comp cams XE cam or a custom cam. Good luck though.

-Billy

Definetly the "E", the "B" has overlap and with the AOD thats really bad, the "F" is good too, but a bit too much for you at this time. X is a door stop.

I'd stick with the stocker. The "S" cam as I call it.

may i ask why you want to stick with an alphabet cam? there's alot more out there, just because its made by ford doesnt mean that its the best for your ford engine, by any means

the first sentence says its got TFS heads, did ya miss that? ;)

I'd personally go with a custom grind cam, but that can get kinda pricey, so I'd check out the TFS stage II

BUT if you just HAVE to stay with an alphabet cam, then i second the F303

The people to talk to would be the techs at Trick Flow. They just recommended the Stage 2 cam for me. Since your stuff is Trick Flow, I'm sure they would have the best answer.

Well.....
 

I would recommend my Bunny's cam, but she'd kill me:D .

So.......I say F cam

I dyno'd at 308 hp when I was running a similar set up with the E303. Car was as clean throgh the emissions test with the cat on as stock. When I put the E in there wasn't much else. There are much better cams now. Check out the Anderson N4 or N6.

Why would you want to throw a cam engineered in the stone age and made for the masses in your car. Spend the extra dough and get a cam made for YOUR combo and how YOU drive. I would try Buddy Rawls www.wighat.com/fcr3/ . I have spoken to him and plan on getting a cam this fall. Others that I have talked to that have a cam of his are impressed. Also, there is Ed Curtis up at flow tech induction that does great work also. But he is very busy from what I hear. jmo and some thoughts.
Ray

the reason I am sticking to an alphabet cam is because they are the only cams anybody keeps in stock! I cant find any TFS 1 or 2 cams. I was also looking at the powermax 2020 from crane but nobody has it either. How much power do you think i'll make at the motor with this combo? (+ longtubes, no emissions, no cats, etc) Desktop dyno seems to say about 380 - 390 ish... is that off?

Are you talking to me? You posted one minute after me thats why I ask.
Ray

OOPS!!! ---I missed the part about the Trick flow heads.

Really....Im not a retard I just play one on the internet:o

After re-reading I agree with the E-cam

jdsperformance.com may have TFS cams in stock.

Summit has them on backorder.

i have the e cam, i didnt really notice any difference except, surging idle, and low vaccum. thats the one thing that i overlooked when building my motor. i had the b cam previously and that was a lot better except the power band was soo high, didnt really make power until 4200-rev limiter. but when it did get up high it pulled like crazy. i have heard a lot about the f cam, mostly good so i would say that or a trick flow cam.

The F303 is a supercharger cam with a lot of LSA built in. Should help your AOD in the low end category.

If you're gonna throw an XE series cam in there, you had best make sure your springs will handle it. XE cams have ridiculous amounts of lift.

Oh, I also see a lot of the bashing of the Motorsports cams because they use ancient technology. I'd like somebody to explain to me why another cam is better rather than just rattle off some crap somebody else told them.

The Motorsports cams are proven to make power, they are inexpensive, and they last.

Actually, we'll take my specific recommendation, the F303. Keep in mind, the difference between a really sweet cam and a stock cam will probably be in the neighborhood of 30-40hp. A good cam will give you 20-30hp over stock. So all the extra work of getting the custom cam is only gonna get a person 10hp in a setup like mentioned above, if they get a sweet one.

The Trick Flow Stage 2 cam is the same as the Anderson B4. .542/.563~224-232 with a 112 lobe sep. It is an excellent blower cam.

The Anderson B4 is now sold as the B41. I'm not sure what the revision was (or if there was one) but I am sure that it is just as good, if not better.

Andy

I think it all comes down to getting a cam for your driving style and intent. The alphabet cams were made for the masses for varying style of engine combos and driving styles. I have had e, and b cams in past cars and they are not the greatest. I think the cam is one of the most vital parts of the engine and you should choose one for your combo not everybody else’s. Take a look at the link I posted earlier and read the articles Buddy wrote. Cam truth is a good one.
I have heard and seen these cams go either way. Sure they make more power than stock but almost anything would.
So spending $150 dollars more on a cam is expensive? I have seen people blow money on worse $hit for their cars that do not do anything.
Do you have proof that they last longer than a custom?
Again, is $150 worth 10hp? I think so. Also better drivability, idle, power through the rpm range... the list goes on.

is the "B" the only cam with overlap...lmao. The E is the worst cam for the AOD as it has less overlap, a narrow powerband and poor low end performance. AODogs need all the low end help they can get.

Go with the F as it has a 114 LSA, which is AOD freindly.

E-110 LSA
B-112 LSA
F- 114 LSA

how is the idle on the F303 cam? Is it like stock, lumpier than stock, or say, alot rougher than stock?

Now you can take a look at my posts on cams.

#1 The stock cam is a GOOD cam. Don't know why it's so hard for people to comprehend that. In head to head comparisons, the F303 in particular does great. Any cam can screw a combo, and I've seen people post where the cam they were recommended turned out to be a POS for them. If the combo is setup right, ie selecting the right cam for the combo, it's going to make good power.

#2 Spending $150 more on a cam to get the exact same result or worse is expensive. I'm not in the habit of blowing money, period.

#3 I don't have to prove they last longer than custom. I never said custom cams wouldn't last, just that the alpha cams have the history behind them to prove they do.

#4 Better drivability. How? Explain this to me. The F303 has good LSA, maintains vacuum, has a nice, solid duration, good lift that can be used in combo with any decent springs and it makes the same power in tests as most of the aftermarket high dollar cams, and I've never seen a heads up comparison where it's down more than 5rwhp or so. It makes good midrange, keeps the lowend alive, and the top end is solid as well. I'm not saying that there are not better cams out there. I'm saying that the alphabet cams get a bad rap because numb nutz the cam wiz kid throws the X cam into a stock speed density 87GT and then can't get it to work so he jumps on the alphabet cam hating wagon. :rolleyes: The E303 is known to have some vacuum issues on occation and mysterious idle surge. The B303 just isn't a whole lot of good below 3000rpm because of the overlap.

[b]Mach 1[b/], The E303 does have more LSA than the B303 110 vs 112, and it's better with the LCA at 107/117 vs the B303's 109/119, but you forgot to include the fact the B303 has 4* more duration. So while off center the E303 has roughly 1* per side more overlap as far as LSA and LCA are concerned, it gives up 2* per side with the extra duration. End result? The B303 cam has more overlap than the E303.

I put between 10 and 15,000 miles on my F cam when it was in my 94. It has a VERY lumpy idle! I liked the cam! It performed well for me, and it sounded awesome!

Andy

could someone post the specs. on the f-cam, im thinking about going that way but please post. thanks

Be sure to read about the different cams.
 

If your car is set up for street go with the cam that is going to get you low end power. If it for the strip get one that kicks in at about 1500 RPM's. Remember not to over cam it, because there are a lot of folks making crazy power on smaller cams.

I would personally check out Lunati for a cam. My 2 cents.:D

I never said the stock cam was a bad cam. I have seen what they can do at nmra races. It’s impressive. As far as cams that are recommend to them, I would only trust Ed Curtis or Buddy Rawls. This is because of the cars they have done and I have seen at the track or an event. I’m sure there are plenty more out there though. I agree that if the setup is done right its going to make good power.
You said that you can get 10 hp, how is this the same result?
That’s fine. You just threw that out there and I was wondering if you saw something I didn’t.
You got me on the f cam. I don’t have much experience with this one. You have peaked my interest and I’m going to keep my eyes and ears open for it when I go to events. About its specs though, it all comes down to the combo being correct to make it work right? I was basing my statements on drivability from cars that I have seen with a lot of different combos, not just one engine and different cams for a magazine test. I agree with you on some kid throwing x cam into x car and it running like $hit. I see that all the time. If they can jump on the alphabet cam hating bandwagon because of their bad experience, don’t you think there are the same people that do that with customs?

Ray

stevstum has a great point. If you are smart you will listen to what he has to say. It is the same thing Unit was saying about a kid putting an X cam in an 87 speed density mustang, you can over cam a car if you don't have a clue about your engine.

If I were you I would call Buddy Rawls or Ed Curtis to get a custom cam. But if you are not into that, give Lunati, Comp Cams, Crane, or Trick Flow a call and just ask them questions about what cam they would recomend and why. They are all very knowledgable with cams that they sell and they can tell you why some cams will work and why some cams won't. Just give them a call, it is worth the effort. Good luck in your choice. Take it easy.

-Billy

I meant to say the E has more overlap than the B, not less. 110 LSA is less than 114 LSA , creating more overlap, a narrower powerband, and more computer car driveability problems in my experience, and also the reason I think there are so many problems with the E cam.

The F-cam is a little high on duration now that I look at the specs. Might also cause driveability problems, but I have no experience with the F cam.

I didnt quite understand all that about the B cam having more overlap than the E even though the LSA is more, because of the higher duration. Care to explain that again?

And would this mean the F cam has more overlap than the B or E, even though it has the widest LSA, because it has even more duartion than the b or E?

Not exactly. He recommended a cam that kicks in at 1500 rpm for the track. A cam that kicks in that early is for the street, not the track.

That isnt necessarily true eithier. Have you ever called any of those places? I have, and have talked to several others who were also very disappointed with the quality of service, tech advice and effort given by some of the so called "cam help tech lines".

Mach 1In terms of pure overlap, duration also has to be considered.

http://users.spec.net/home/emxjc/cam_shaft_power.html

Try that link for an in depth explaination. Duration does affect overlap, and lift affects overlap area. The F303 has quite a bit of overlap as well. The actual way overlap functions is related to ramp rates, lift, duration, LSA, and LCA.

Cams suck. It's my little area of interest now. It's gonna be a while before I learn what I want to know, which is a lot. LOL. Everytime I think I have a little better grasp on how they work, there is another variable. Like sending a shuttle to the moon.

RayC76 You might get 10hp if you get an awesome cam. You might lose 10hp if you get an okay cam. My uncle had a couple cams recommended to him. The recommended Lunati was a POS. Wouldn't even index. The Comp Cam he was recommended and purchased performed crappy with his combo.

I agree. I have tried to study them, but just when you think you got them figured out, you realize you are only scratching the surface.

I just read a 7 page article on "camshaft truths" on the web written by an engineer.

What did I get out of the 7 pages of theory and mumbo jumbo...nothing...lol.

He basically was stateing the importance of "camshaft timing events" and how they relate to RPM.

Just try to get one that matches your combinations "potential" flow and RPM range. Thats about all you can do, unless you have the resources to experiment and custom grind your own, and even then, it would only be optimal only on your exact particular engine.

I would never get a recommendation from a big company. Who knows what kind of person is on the other line. Thats why I listed two names that I would trust. Those two guys are for mustangs only, I have others for chevrolet products.

Unit 5302 and Mach 1, you guys make me laugh. I feel the same way about cams and trying to understand them. Every time I think I know something, I realize I do not know much at all lol. Good thread guys. I learned some stuff and nice link unit 5302, I have not seen that one yet.

Ray

can anyone explain to me what is wrong with the stock cam? especially in my stock 90. i hear people make up to 350 hp on a stock cam with certain combos. is this true? i think the alphabet cam "E" is a good cam for a stick car. my friend has it in his 85 with 89 motor in it and everything else is basically stock. it pulls nicely. if your a serious street/strip person, then my choice would be the custom grind.

stock cams
 

I know this is a dumb question here at Mustang works. But did anyone read the little thumbnail on page 197 of 5.0 Mustang and super fords? It is about the stock cams and their tolerances from Ford. It says that the stock cams vary from 114 to 120 degrees. I just wonder if the alphabet cams from Ford are in the same boat. Even though the stock cams came from different sources? I am asking this because I am a firm believer in the F303. Anyone have any input on this? Thanks.

Re: stock cams
 

I'd have to see that in person to believe it. 114-120 LSA? That's absolutely gigantic. I mean fricken HUGE HUGE HUGE.

srv1, you'd have to have one seriously built engine to make 350hp with the stock cam. Such a combo would easily see 50hp by a swapping to a more appropriate cam. I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm just saying not many will. High compression will certainly get you a lot more hp with the stock grind, but for a street setup, you're probably going to be limited to under 320hp, no matter what street combo you use. There is nothing wrong with the stock cam until you start seeing 300hp or so. It's got an LSA of about 116 if I remember right, and it's lift is pretty mild at .444. Even with 1.7's it's a mild cam. Compared to the economy cams it's a powerhouse, but for a high performance 302, it's not a good higher rpm cam.

114-120 degrees
 

That is what I thought!!! That is a wide tolerance range.

I have a modded motor with an F-cam. Makes very good power above 3000 not much under. I installed it "straight up" It is good enough to take any F-body that I might encounter on my travels. LOL. lopes a little but not to bad. But then again I am willing to sacrifice a little drivablilty for power.

Im in pretty much of the same boat as the rest of you, trying to build an engine that will detach my retinas when I punch the gas. I've come to learn some truths about engines as i've gone along in life and my job (im a mechanic), it is easy to over cam an engine that will see mostly street duty and occational drag strip time. I've had several friends run low 13's with an E303 cam with a good set of heads (Trick Flow, Edelbrock, Ect.....), but do not want the idle roll problems of that cam. For my combo (brand new block, I beam rods, TRW forged pistons, stock crank, stock oil pump, Canton windage screen,Aluminum flywheel, ported stock E7TE heads with chevy 1.94/1.60 intake and exhaust valves 56 CC combustion chambers and heavily ported) I chose the B303 cam. I have driven mustangs with this cam and liked the power, it comes on hard at 3000 to 4000 depending on the combo but is still soft enough down low so as not to make your mustang a pain in the *** to drive in the rain. As for the lift, if you subsitute 1.7 rockers instead of 1.6's you will get .510 lift instead of.480 which is better than the E303 without the idle problems. With the above combo 12.70's at 105 MPH in the quarter are possible in a combo that is easy to live with on a daily basis.