Bad Block? What's wrong?

USMC302 · 03-28-2002, 12:18 PM

Ok here's the deal, On the 88GT, white smoke was pouring out, bad head gasket right or cracked heads apparently. Ran the test for the head gaskets and liquid barely changed color. So what the hell, we went ahead and bought new Stock heads, with new springs, valves, and everything. Got new head gaskets and went ahead and got all new piston rings as well. Got it all changed over and now engine barely wants to run, acts like it is off balance real bad with violent shaking at all rpm's, runs loud and seems to have no power, it didn't even make it down the road, it doesn't want to hold an idle either, timing is factory 10. We changed one piston at a time so order was preserved, went exactly by the torque specs, all new gaskets, oil, and all. What is wrong? Any suggestions at all? Could it be the block? I am going to run a compression test this weekend.

richs8750 · 03-28-2002, 04:54 PM

This almost sounds like the timing chain is off a tooth, do the compression ckeck! but check the #1 cylinder TDC

sn95gt19 · 03-28-2002, 05:16 PM

could be the timing chain or i have put the dist. in 180deg. off so its trying to fire at the wrong time, bad injectors or mass air could do that too, i have had numerous problems with my stangs and it has always been either one or the other. sorry if that doesnt help

LX5liter · 03-28-2002, 06:02 PM

Do a compression test first. If you have little or no compression on 1 or more cylinders you might have the valves adjusted too tight, ( not enough shims ). If its low on all the cylinders then I would suspect your timing sprockets are out of sync, ( valves opening and closing at the wrong times and possible valve to piston clearance issues ). If you have good compression across the board then your timing is probably way off, or the rockers may be over shimmed and not opening enough.

Just my $.02.

I hope it helps.

USMC302 · 03-29-2002, 10:31 AM

When I put it together it took me a while just to stab the dist right the first time. When I stabbed it once it wanted to fire but didn't, so I turned it 180 and bam started up but crappy. Doesn't really sound like it's misfiring though. Thje timing chain wasn't removed when I pulled the engine, should it have been? I left the water pump and timing chain cover attached while doing the rings and heads out of the car. I will do the compression check tonight or tomorrow moring and let every one know how it went. Thanks so far!

chris91LX · 03-29-2002, 01:03 PM

I had problems with mine because the dist was in right but the timing was wayyyy off, very retarded. You might want to make sure the timing is right and all the other simple things are checked before you start digging into the motor again.

Oldschoolpony · 03-30-2002, 10:51 AM

Dont want to sound dumb, but did you do 302 fireing order or 302HO firing order. the HO has the same fireing order as a 351W

Its either timming or fuel.

RoadWarrior · 03-30-2002, 03:38 PM

From the sounds of it i would guess its probably timming. Like oldschool pony said, make sure your using the right firing order. That screwed me up once. And your dist migh be out a tooth or flipped. I had the same problem and it was just my dist was off by quite a bit. Try that and let us know if it helps.

USMC302 · 04-01-2002, 12:33 PM

Ok, here is the deal, I restabbed the dist, double checked the firing order, all was correct, engine runs 95% smooth at idle, no smoke anymore(original Problem) but when I try to drive it, it has no power at all, I mean i can crawl down the street in it but nothing when gas is given, engine revs but no power, sound like no compression to me. I did not get to do the compression test, out of time and money last weekend but talked to a mech that said it could be the ring gap. I didn't measure the ring gap when installing the new rins, I did however stagger them. Do you guys think that the ring gap( we are talking thousandths here) would be the cause of all this? i mean the guys from the parts store said they were ready to go. I don't want to pull all of this apart again to measure ring gap ya know?!

DRASTiK · 04-01-2002, 03:39 PM

I kinda doubt that's your problem, but anything's possible. Let's try and knock out all the other possibilities before you go through another set of gaskets. Do you have a way of seeing how much vaccum you have?

P.S.
12.4 is darn good for the coupe! I would have emailed you sooner, but I've been TAD for a couple of weeks.

Dave

USMC302 · 04-01-2002, 05:34 PM

Hey Dave good to hear from you, good to hear you've got that stang in the mid 13's too. Yeah I know it can do better though, like I said in the email that was still with some spin and a 1.9 60ft. Less air and harder launch is in order next run. Anyway, why would vacuum be an issue here? All of the lines feel strong and all are connected. I really really don't want to pull all of that back apart.

PKRWUD · 04-02-2002, 06:18 AM

Your vacuum reading at idle will tell us alot. If you have a vacuum gauge, attach it to manifold vacuum and post the number it idles at, as well as anything odd that it does.

Other than that, a compression test is mandatory.

Post the results.

Take care,
-Chris

USMC302 · 04-02-2002, 09:01 AM

Ok, I will, but unfortunately it will not be this weekend, It will have to be the one after this one which sucks but I will post the results of both then, thanks for all of the advice and help so far.

03-28-2002, 06:02 PM	#4
LX5liter dude5l Join Date: May 2001 Location: Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada Posts: 603	Do a compression test first. If you have little or no compression on 1 or more cylinders you might have the valves adjusted too tight, ( not enough shims ). If its low on all the cylinders then I would suspect your timing sprockets are out of sync, ( valves opening and closing at the wrong times and possible valve to piston clearance issues ). If you have good compression across the board then your timing is probably way off, or the rockers may be over shimmed and not opening enough. Just my $.02. I hope it helps. __________________ Good luck! Brad R. 1992 L.X. 5.0 coupe MODS: A few little bolt ons New Best time ...11.60 @ 128 mph @ 2000+ ft altitude. Rice Haters Club member #39 Users rides #2542

03-29-2002, 10:31 AM	#5
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	When I put it together it took me a while just to stab the dist right the first time. When I stabbed it once it wanted to fire but didn't, so I turned it 180 and bam started up but crappy. Doesn't really sound like it's misfiring though. Thje timing chain wasn't removed when I pulled the engine, should it have been? I left the water pump and timing chain cover attached while doing the rings and heads out of the car. I will do the compression check tonight or tomorrow moring and let every one know how it went. Thanks so far! __________________

03-30-2002, 10:51 AM	#7
Oldschoolpony Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Gainsville,Fl Posts: 229	start simple Dont want to sound dumb, but did you do 302 fireing order or 302HO firing order. the HO has the same fireing order as a 351W Its either timming or fuel. __________________ http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1546

04-01-2002, 12:33 PM	#9
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	Ok, here is the deal, I restabbed the dist, double checked the firing order, all was correct, engine runs 95% smooth at idle, no smoke anymore(original Problem) but when I try to drive it, it has no power at all, I mean i can crawl down the street in it but nothing when gas is given, engine revs but no power, sound like no compression to me. I did not get to do the compression test, out of time and money last weekend but talked to a mech that said it could be the ring gap. I didn't measure the ring gap when installing the new rins, I did however stagger them. Do you guys think that the ring gap( we are talking thousandths here) would be the cause of all this? i mean the guys from the parts store said they were ready to go. I don't want to pull all of this apart again to measure ring gap ya know?! __________________

04-01-2002, 03:39 PM	#10
DRASTiK Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 536	I kinda doubt that's your problem, but anything's possible. Let's try and knock out all the other possibilities before you go through another set of gaskets. Do you have a way of seeing how much vaccum you have? P.S. 12.4 is darn good for the coupe! I would have emailed you sooner, but I've been TAD for a couple of weeks. Dave __________________ Dave 88 GT - 13.4@106 on street tires (2.2 60ft) My Stang RHC member #75 My stang is FOR SALE!!

03-28-2002, 12:18 PM	#1
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	Bad Block? What's wrong? Ok here's the deal, On the 88GT, white smoke was pouring out, bad head gasket right or cracked heads apparently. Ran the test for the head gaskets and liquid barely changed color. So what the hell, we went ahead and bought new Stock heads, with new springs, valves, and everything. Got new head gaskets and went ahead and got all new piston rings as well. Got it all changed over and now engine barely wants to run, acts like it is off balance real bad with violent shaking at all rpm's, runs loud and seems to have no power, it didn't even make it down the road, it doesn't want to hold an idle either, timing is factory 10. We changed one piston at a time so order was preserved, went exactly by the torque specs, all new gaskets, oil, and all. What is wrong? Any suggestions at all? Could it be the block? I am going to run a compression test this weekend. __________________

03-28-2002, 04:54 PM	#2
richs8750 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: germantown,maryland USA Posts: 47	This almost sounds like the timing chain is off a tooth, do the compression ckeck! but check the #1 cylinder TDC

03-28-2002, 05:16 PM	#3
sn95gt19 motors done......woohooo Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 799	could be the timing chain or i have put the dist. in 180deg. off so its trying to fire at the wrong time, bad injectors or mass air could do that too, i have had numerous problems with my stangs and it has always been either one or the other. sorry if that doesnt help

03-29-2002, 01:03 PM	#6
chris91LX Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Suburban Chicago, Hanover Park Posts: 695	I had problems with mine because the dist was in right but the timing was wayyyy off, very retarded. You might want to make sure the timing is right and all the other simple things are checked before you start digging into the motor again.

03-30-2002, 03:38 PM	#8
RoadWarrior Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada Posts: 317	From the sounds of it i would guess its probably timming. Like oldschool pony said, make sure your using the right firing order. That screwed me up once. And your dist migh be out a tooth or flipped. I had the same problem and it was just my dist was off by quite a bit. Try that and let us know if it helps.

04-01-2002, 05:34 PM	#11
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	Hey Dave good to hear from you, good to hear you've got that stang in the mid 13's too. Yeah I know it can do better though, like I said in the email that was still with some spin and a 1.9 60ft. Less air and harder launch is in order next run. Anyway, why would vacuum be an issue here? All of the lines feel strong and all are connected. I really really don't want to pull all of that back apart. __________________

04-02-2002, 06:18 AM	#12
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Your vacuum reading at idle will tell us alot. If you have a vacuum gauge, attach it to manifold vacuum and post the number it idles at, as well as anything odd that it does. Other than that, a compression test is mandatory. Post the results. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

04-02-2002, 09:01 AM	#13
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	Ok, I will, but unfortunately it will not be this weekend, It will have to be the one after this one which sucks but I will post the results of both then, thanks for all of the advice and help so far. __________________

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