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Best way to get 300hp from fox body
I am picking up my 89 GT late this week and already have some ideas about what mods I want to do. The car is stock so I have a blank canvas to start with. My goal with this car is to get 300 FLYWHEEL horsepower N/A by next summmer.
I already have pulleys, dynomax cat-back, H-pipe w/cats, 4.10's, and an extrude honed stock intake waiting to go on. What else do I need for a reliable, strong combo that will yield AT LEAST 300 hp?? I know I need heads and cam, but after that I don't know where else to go. All I want is 300 hp N/A and some timeslips in the 13's. Any help is appreciated ------------------ SOLD: 91 GT AOD 14.71@91.78mph 89 GT 5-speed: No times yet...STOCK!! 58k miles |
You're going to need some top end parts. Sell the Extrude honed stock intake. The M9424 D51 Cobra intake is a better choice. Have the lower intake port matched to a pair of X303 GT40 heads. Use the E303 or F303 cam, 70mm TB, 24 lb. injectors and a 77mm MAF. Shorty headers, a H-pipe and a 2-1/2" Cat-back exhaust system. There are many different parts to use, but use this as a basic parts list. Good Luck!
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The stock intake with the machine work flows better than a stock cobra intake so I am going to hold on to it for now. Do the heads need any machine work or will they flow good enough right out of the box?
------------------ SOLD: 91 GT AOD 14.71@91.78mph 89 GT 5-speed: No times yet...STOCK!! 58k miles |
And I thought the 24lb injectors weren't much difference from the 19lb...I was going to go with 30lb becasue of this.
------------------ SOLD: 91 GT AOD 14.71@91.78mph 89 GT 5-speed: No times yet...STOCK!! 58k miles |
-I doubt you need a cam.
-GT-40 Iron Heads or GT-40p heads. -Keep the 19lb injectors -75mm or so MAF -Bumped timing -Cold Air Induction -G3 Alternator -Electric Fans -Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator That list should have no problem getting you to 300hp at the flywheel. |
Would GT-40X heads be worth the extra money over the iron heads??
------------------ SOLD: 91 GT AOD 14.71@91.78mph 89 GT 5-speed: No times yet...STOCK!! 58k miles |
Everyone here has been suggesting GT-40 heads. But I've seen it shown that the TFS aluminum heads are better. So why wouldn't he get those instead?
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The reason being is he asked how to get 300hp, not 350 or 400. Also if he's on a budget, the TFS's will set him back at LEAST $400 more. |
WHY NOT GET A SET OF WORLD PRODUCTS WINDSOR JR HEADS. I KNOW THEY ARE BETTER THAN THE GT 40 HEADS AND THEY ARE NOT A S EXPENSIVE AS THE TFS.
------------------ 91 LX COUPE, 3.73 GEARS, 2 1/2 INCH FULL EXHAUST, 1 5/8 SHORTY HEADERS, 73 MM C&L MAF, 70 MM MAC TB, LUNATI CAM, WINDSOR JR HEADS, GT 40 INTAKE WITH PORTED LOWER, WORLD CLASS T5 WITH PRO 5.0 SHIFTER, GRIFFIN ALUMINUM RADIATOR, FLUID DAMPER, SSM TRACTION BARS, 150 HP SHOT N2O KIT, 190 GPH FUEL PUMP. AND MORE TO COME. |
I am not on much of a budget at all. I jsut want to have the heads by next spring which gives me 6 months or so to save up. Money should not be a problem.
When I asked about getting 300 hp, I was just trying to get an idea of what I needed. If the TFS heads are a little more expensive but flow better, I'd rather get them. After all, there is no such thing as too much power http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif ------------------ SOLD: 91 GT AOD 14.71@91.78mph 89 GT 5-speed: No times yet...STOCK!! 58k miles |
The extrude honed stock intake will have to go to make the most out of the TFS's. You should pick up something more aggressive (the extrude honed intake is actually a little inferior to the Cobra and GT-40).
I'd recommend the TFS Street Heat intake for about $400. You'll also need a cam, and some rockers if you decide the TFS heads are what you are looking for. The World Products Windor Jr's are not superior to the GT-40p's and GT40s. Flow testing shows the Windsor Jr's are very linear in their flow rate, and at .500 lift both GT-40 styles flow better. Exhuast is another thing altogether. The Windsor Jr's flow hardcore on the exhaust, but you don't need that much flow. 75% or so of intake flow is all you want. The Windsor Jr's flow about 85%. Not that I think they are a bad head, but I would put the GT-40p's up against the Windsor Jr's any day. |
Trick flow heads are a good choice, but you can get 300hp no problem with electric fan, coldair indctn, exhaust, tb, maf, ported cobra, or explorer intak, and leave the heads alone, except some 1.7 rockers.
Now, if money isnt an issue, go ahead and get some gt-p's and have 325 hp, or go stage 3 tfs, and have probaly 360+ hp. ------------------ 90 lx coupe: 5spd, energy susp trans mounts, fms hd clutch, Mac coldair fenderwell, Mac h-pipe, supercoil, ADS chip, 160 stat, aluminum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs. Best time: 13.9116(on 225/60/15 firehawks) Best mph: 98.17 Best 60': 1.9607 someday mods:4.10's, slicks. |
***Trick flow heads are a good choice, but you can get 300hp no problem with electric fan, coldair indctn, exhaust, tb, maf, ported cobra, or explorer intak, and leave the heads alone, except some 1.7 rockers.
300HP with an electric fan(no real power, little increase if at all any?),cold air induction(no real power, much better set-up than the stock induction but...maybe 1-2hp), exhaust(10-15hp?), tb(no real power, could actually hurt power without heads), maf(no real power), ported cobra( maybe 5hp without heads?), or explorer intake and leave the heads alone(Heads are where the real powers at.), except some 1.7 rockers? I DON'T THINK SO....That is just my opinion though. I think a perfect set-up would be Trick Flow heads, trick flow intake, and either a trick flow cam, or a Motorsport cam. Then maybe some 24# inj., 76 C&L Mass air, full length headers, O/R H-pipe, mufflers...and the list could on but I'll stop there. ------------------ 1989 GT, 3:55's, full exhaust, 4 in. hood, Pro 5.0, Have many other parts 4 sale. All parts for sale now. 2000 Camaro SS-A4, 13.7's bone stock. 1989 Chevy S-10, EX. Cab-383(500+hp on motor), trick flow heads, trick flow pistons, etc... autometer phantom gauges, "built" 700R4, roll cage, lexan back window, corbeau seats, R.H.S. 5 harnesses, Fuel cell, convo pro wheels, 15x14's with 29x18.5 M/T'S on back, 15x4's on front, nitrous, and so much more! [This message has been edited by 1BAD89 (edited 10-03-2001).] |
This is a pretty interesting thread. I have a set-up that is pretty close to what Unit is mentioning here.
I went to the dyno last week and was pretty pleased with the results. I'm making 227 rear-wheel HP on a Mustang dyno. This equals about 260 rwhp on a Dynojet. I don't want to get into the differences of the two dynos, but I can tell you that the guy who runs the dyno adjusts by 31%. This puts me right at 300 flywheel HP. I have a big fat power-band that goes from 4400-5800 RPM. I'm making over 290 flywheel HP throughout that power-band. I have had some minor port-work done to the heads and am still running my 19lb injectors. Don't get injectors that are too big. Get an adjustbable fuel pressure regulator and turn up the pressure if you're too lean. I'm sure I would be making more peak power with some more expensive heads, but overall I am pleased with the GT-40ps. I was concerned they wouldn't make decent power. Hope this helps. ------------------ Eric - 89 Mustang LX coupe 302 - Cobra Intake - GT40p heads - TFS stage 1 cam - FRPP 1.6 roller rockers - Naturally Aspirated 3:73 gears - KYB shocks and struts - Eibach springs - HPM Mega-bite Jr lower control arms - HPM upper control arms |
I have some hard numbers.
On my 93 Cobra that I sold last Feb. I had a full bassani exhaust and a set of pullies and a MSD Ignition. I also swapped computers and installed a BBK 70mm TB. I dynoed 254 rwhp with that car. That is pretty close to 300 FWHP. Honestly I don't think that just the cheap mods (mods under 400$) Will get you there. The mose restrictive partof that motor is the exhaust port on the E7's. You could easily get 300 FWHP out of a Stock headed, stock Intaked car. you would need to do some good porting, get a good exhaust, MAF, and TB though to do so. You would need roughly 250 rwhp to hit 300 FWHP. And most tests on ported Intakes and Heads(stock) net about 35-40 rwhp together. That would cost me out here about 500$ for the porting of both. Exhaust....roughly $450-500. TB, $200...MAF, $250. So you are looking at about $1450-1500 there. IMHO, I would save extra and get a set of TFS TW's, a good Intake(TFS, Holley or Edelbrock) TFS is about 400 and kicks arse. A good cam and exhaust, TB and MAF. Trust me on this, because once you hit that 300 hp mark, you will get tired of it, and greed will sneak in, and then you will want 350 hp, and then 400 hp.....TRUST ME, I HAVE BEEN THERE http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif That is my data http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif Good Luck ------------------ Dustin 89 Saleen GT Sport,428 rwhp,TFS Street Heat Intake,TFS TW Heads,TFS #2 cam,BD-11A 9 psi,Crane 1.6 rr's,BBK 70mm TB,Pro-M 80mm MAF,MSD 6BTM, FMS 9mm wires,BBK longtubes,BBK Short H-pipe,American Thunder cat back,3.55's 12.3@119 street tires 11.496@121.08slicks |
Dustin's sooooo right. You may THINK you only want 300 hp, but that's right now. In 2 months (or less if yo're like me), you'll be so used to the extra power and think your Stang's a dog. It's better to spend the extra cash the first time and do it right, so you don't have to trade or sell off the parts to upgrade later.
------------------ '90 LX 5.0;12K original miles;FMS 3.55 gears; March pulleys;Edelbrock Performer Heads;BBK 1 5/8" equal length shorties;MSD 6AL ignition w/ blaster 2 coil;FMS E303 cam;Pro-M 75mm MAF;BBK 70mm TB; Eibach drag-launch spring kit;Southside weld-on subs;9" K&N cone filter charger;Hurst shifter;Cervini 3" turbo hood;A/C delete;gutted cats;2 chamber Flomasters;Corbeau racing seats;FMS 30# injectors;JMS custom chip;Holley 190lb fp;TFS track heat intake (12.299 @ 113mph w/ a 1.78 60') ....soon to be b |
1bad89, you wouldnt believe the gain i got off an electric fan, i know we both dont have any intrest to argue, but i went from 94mph to 98, almost 99 now with the h-pipe, i know heads are the best way to get power, but i was just suggesting something similar to units post, because i know unit and i are some of the few that can run in the 13's with a near stock foxbody, which means we know a few thing hear and there to achieve at least 280 hp, if not 300 at flywheel.
------------------ 90 lx coupe: 5spd, energy susp trans mounts, fms hd clutch, Mac coldair fenderwell, Mac h-pipe, supercoil, ADS chip, 160 stat, aluminum D/S, Black magic fan, 3.27grs. Best time: 13.9116(on 225/60/15 firehawks) Best mph: 98.17 Best 60': 1.9607 someday mods:4.10's, slicks. |
I really doubt my car is making 280hp, probably much closer to 260hp.
The CAI won't pick up more than 1-2hp over a standard K&N with removed silencer, but removing the silencer will give you 5. Probably near 10hp for silencer removal, and the conical K&N cold air. The electric fan will give you 10hp easy. Pushing that big fan assembly at higher rpms really takes some power!! I believe Dustin picked up 20hp pretty easy with his Bassani X pipe installation, so that's for real. The aftermarket MAF will get you about 5hp, it measures flow better, and it allows for less restriction. I can't say the T/B is all that important, but as long as it's not bigger than 65mm, it shouldn't hurt. As far as the aftermarket intakes, hey guy's read his post again. He's already got an EXTRUDE HONED STOCK intake. That flows pretty close to the Cobra. It's true without heads the intakes gains are going to be pretty small, but, like I said, some GT-40's or P's will get him the benefits of that combo. As far as the cam, or the rockers, I really doubt they are all that necessary. The HO cam will do fine to get 300hp. It's more aggressive than a lot of people give it credit for, it doesn't matter if it idles smooth http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif. A lot of guys get their Fox into the 12's with that cam. So let's start from the beginning. 225hp+ GT-40p's with Extrude honed stocker 255hp Hi flow H pipe and exhaust 275 MAF 280 CAI 290 Electric fans 300 I think that's a pretty conservative expectation as well. |
I don't have the ported stock intake yet. I was going to get it next week. Now, I think I'm gonna pass on it and get the Trick Flow intake. It's gonna cost me $200 more ($200 for ported intake, $400 for Trick Flow), but I think it will be worth it in the long run.
I have a general idea of what I want to do now: TFS Twisted Wedge heads, Trick Flow intake, Trick Flow cam. The little stuff (MAF, TB, CAI) I will do after the heads intake and cam are done. I already have a dynomax exhaust and an H-pipe w/cats so I don't have to worry too much about exhaust...except maybe headers. I have a friend with a 97 SS and a friend with a 00 SS. They both run 13.6's. Boy, won't they be surprised when I beat them with my little 302 http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif Thank you for all the ideas and kinda pointing me in the right direction http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif I'll let everyone know what I finally end up doing. ------------------ SOLD: 91 GT AOD 14.71@91.78mph 89 GT 5-speed: No times yet...STOCK!! 58k miles |
Some of the "little" stuff as you put it is vital to that combo.
The MAF will need to be recalibrated, and the stocker will be a huge bottleneck in that area. The Throttle body also becomes an issue with those parts. An adjustable fuel pressure regulator moves to almost required. Your 19lb injectors will NOT be adaqaute for that setup either. You'll need pushrods, and you should get new rockers for the heads as well. It's very important to match combo's. I hope you have a clutch that is way better than stock? You'll also need to upgrade your radiator for cooling with the TFS combo you mentioned. Most of the stuff I just listed should not be considered an option. I'm not trying to steer you one way or the other, just giving you the heads up on what you really need to make that combo run well for you. |
hardened pushrods, and rockers are a must, because tfs are stud mounted, just thought id point that out.
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Unit i disagree about the fuel system. All he needs is a larger pump maybe a 190lph. I'm running stock injectors, maybe I could benefit a bit from 24lbers but not by much, and bigger injectors are definitly not on the top of the proirity list if its NA(under 350hp). You are right it is the small stuff that makes all the difference..pay attention to it.
90dpsCoupe with a 98 MPH trap your prob. making closer to 245fwhp, stock cars run 96-98 mph..et is a function (largely) of traction at this level. However, the suggestions so far are good for 300+fwhp. Good luck. Mike ------------------ 306ci, TFS stage 3 heads. port/pol edlebrock performer intake. 75mm mass air, 70mm TB, crane 2030 cam, Mac full length headers, flowmasters 3.73 gears, pulleys, March ram-air, AFPR... Best to date: 13.53@110.07mph on a hot/humid day! 287RWHP, 306RWTQ [This message has been edited by Hyper92GT (edited 10-04-2001).] |
I apologize if I might have confused some people. I meant that I am going to get the MAF, pushrods, rockers, etc. after I BUY the heads, intake, and cam. Then, Once I have it all purchased, they will all be installed. I'm sorry that I was confusing in my statement.
------------------ SOLD: 91 GT AOD 14.71@91.78mph 89 GT 5-speed: No times yet...STOCK!! 58k miles |
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I forgot about the fuel pump (he'll need that in either case), a 155 will do just fine. |
UNIT I completely agree with you I am pushing the limit, and my fuel pressure is only set at 40psi - I don't want to tax the system either. However, with the build up we are discussing, is not mine, stock injectors should suffice. Injectors are my next upgrade but I don't know how much HP they will be worth? Any ideas? I was a little disappointed with my HP numbers but it is a blower motor with low comp. BTW I wish my motor was only $2500 bucks, that doesnt even cover the heads! http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif
------------------ 306ci, TFS stage 3 heads. port/pol edlebrock performer intake. 75mm mass air, 70mm TB, crane 2030 cam, Mac full length headers, flowmasters 3.73 gears, pulleys, March ram-air, AFPR... Best to date: 13.53@110.07mph on a hot/humid day! 287RWHP, 306RWTQ [This message has been edited by Hyper92GT (edited 10-04-2001).] |
Do you have an FMU?? 40psi with 19lb/hr injectors on just an adjustable FPR and I'd expect your injectors to never stop. They must be on injection cycle constantly?
To keep the stock injection cycle you'd only be making 230hp. To simulate stock injectors according to the Stang Analyzer, you'd need 68psi (in tank pumps are rated at 70psi). I did some math, the stang analyzer is pretty accurate. You're asking your computer to compensate nearly 50% by injector cycle. The thing to remember is that you are low compression, and he won't be. 350hp is right about where he should be. Before upgrading injectors I would bump the fuel pressure. The pump should be running at 70psi for rated Lph, so setting your AFPR at 60psi should get you about 32% more flow or so. If your computer is capable of staying at that huge adjustment factor you'd be able to run 19lb injectors to 455hp, which is insane!!!! Bumping your fuel pressure to 60psi should allow for a better spray pattern, and a crisper injector cycle. I would expect a jump in throttle response, and better power levels with that if everything went by the book. I cannot explain how you are able to obtain those numbers by math, but hey, it's a car so physics doesn't apply. You know, you drop a nut on the engine while you're working, and when you find it, it's at the back of the car wedged behind the tire. LOL!! I hate that! |
No FMU just a 190pump and AFPR. I don't really want to crank it up to 60psi !!! I might be goning to the track this weekend so I will try 45, then 50 see what happens. I am not by any means a guro when it comes to fuel systems and the stock computer/injectors.
Your are correct with higer comp motor more fuel is better. Mike |
I have yet to make it to a dyno to see what my actual numbers are, and I don't even have track times with the new gears so there's another figure I can't quote you. But I will say this - Why not port the stock heads? I ported mine myself which was my first attempt at porting heads and I think they are flowing great and work well for my setup. I have around $300 in the heads counting the new valve springs and a 3 angle valve job. I know a set of aftermarket heads will do wonders over a stock head, but for an 18mpg street car that'll smoke LS1's all day long I can't complain.
Just a thought. ------------------ Gunning for 12's! http://www.indianastangers.com/2Fast..._brd_logo2.gif Buy your parts here ICQ# 42269241 |
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