bucking In-tank fuel pump

mlambrecht82 · 10-24-2002, 12:26 AM

No, I'm not trying to sneak profanity into my subject line, my fuel pump really bucks, and it's driving me carzy!!! Please help! I have a 02 GT with a procharger. The car bucks (bounces) under partial throttle, I was told that this is due to the incompatability with the pump and my stang. I believe this theory is correct because the pump wen tout once and procharger sent me a new one (it took 5 days, even though I called at 7am and told them rush rush rush!) when I put the new one in the bucking was gone for about a day then it slightly started up again, now it is driving me crazy again. This is an everyday driver and now with my exhaust cut outs it is really noticable because you can hear the engine bucking. Thanks for all your help everyone.

Hammer · 10-24-2002, 01:13 PM

I'd say its time to pony up some cash and get yourself an aeromotive fuel pump...

Eric4Nitrous · 10-24-2002, 01:33 PM

I do believe your right hammer.....

mlambrecht82 · 10-24-2002, 01:41 PM

elaborate more on this aeromotive fuel pump you speak of.

mlambrecht82 · 10-24-2002, 02:18 PM

I'm looking at the eliminator or mayme the a1000. I don't know if the A1000 will flow enough. I'm flowing 255lph right know what does that convert to in pounds, I think it is somewhere around 600lbs/hour.

http://216.242.145.16/products/product.phtml?p=2

Hammer · 10-24-2002, 03:47 PM

The A1000 should work just fine.
Stats are in this link:

http://216.242.145.16/products/produ...ml?p=3&large=2

chico · 10-24-2002, 05:13 PM

You really do not need the aeromotive fuel pump (which requires the sumped fuel tank ,lines and fuel rails todo it correctly) your 255 in tank with a 245 bosch in line , stock fuel lines and rails into adjustable fuel reg. This set up is good for up to 560 rwhp.. If you have a FMU (supplied by your Mfg. of supercharger) get rid of it and have a custom chip cut on dyno. The Bosch has braided fittings, making it easy to hook up to stock lines.Sells for about $140.00..Takes 30 min. to hook up. Correction..barbed fittings, not braided

Hammer · 10-24-2002, 08:10 PM

Quote:

You really do not need the aeromotive fuel pump (which requires the sumped fuel tank ,lines and fuel rails todo it correctly) your 255 in tank with a 245 bosch in line , stock fuel lines and rails into adjustable fuel reg. This set up is good for up to 560 rwhp.. If you have a FMU (supplied by your Mfg. of supercharger) get rid of it and have a custom chip cut on dyno. The Bosch has braided fittings, making it easy to hook up to stock lines.Sells for about $140.00..Takes 30 min. to hook up. Correction..barbed fittings, not braided

You're right about the fuel pump and what he would need to go that route Chico, I should have thought about that.
Thanks for the heads up...

I have a similar setup to his (even the 42lb squirters) with a 255 in tank with an added in line pump that came with the 96-98 kit.
I've never had a problem with fuel.

As far as an FMU, he won't have one. The 99+ 4.6s have a "returnless" fuel system so they can't use an FMU. The 99+ Procharger kits come with a ECM module (chip) to increase fuel flow.
It looks like he went with a custom Diablo chip in place of it....

Mlam, Do you have an in-line pump? Chico may be on to something... It'll certainly save you money.

chico · 10-24-2002, 10:09 PM

QUICK NOTE AND OBSERVATION...YOU GUYS ARE LUCKY TO HAVE A MODERATOR WITH THE EXPERIENCE AND PATIENCE TO DEAL WITH SOME OF YOU AND NO LPATIENCE GUYS LIKE ME..HE SEEMS TO KNOW HIS CARS AND PEOPLE.... CHANGED MY ATTITUDE...

mlambrecht82 · 10-25-2002, 12:25 AM

okay, I don't have an inline fuel pump. That is what I was planning on getting. Now where can I get this bosch 245? Is it just an inline fuel pump? $140 sounds a lot better than $400. I talked to the guys that sold me the kit today and he said that my bypass valve was screwy. That didn't seem right as it would show up on my boost gauge, and the fact that when I put a new pump in it worked great for a day. So I took the belt off my charger and am now running no boost, and it still bucks, so I know it isn't the bypass valve. (My god my car is slow, with no boost)
I do have a custom chip from diablo because procharger didn't have one out for my 02 stang yet. (I had to dish out an extra $400 for the custom chip that I wasn't to happy about) My A/F gauge says that my car is running extremely lean and it has never seen stoich. I called diablo on this and they said that my $50 gauge was wrong. But if my car is running lean then that would explain why I get detonation every now and then and my car isn't performing up to par. I need to get this thing dyno tuned, but the closest diablo tuner is 4 hrs away.
I'm hoping that I can slap on this bosch pump and get the bucking to stop for know and then later on (when finances persist) go down and get all the power squezed out of my 4.6.
Thanks a lot for your guys help, I don't know what I would do with out this board.
I think I am going to look in to getting this bosch pump for now unless someone thinks otherweis. Speak now or forever hold your peace.

mlambrecht82 · 10-25-2002, 04:15 PM

I just emailed Sean Hyland Motorsports with the problem. They said that the Bosch pump won't work with my returnless fuel system. They said my only choice is to either put my stock pump back in, or buy a twin pump set up with a module for $420. I wish I didn't have to spend so much, 'cause I want to get some electric cut outs also. But first things first.

chico · 10-25-2002, 05:50 PM

???? I'm a little confused, unless I am missing something I see no reason why the Bosch inline would not work..just bump your fuel pressure up a notch on the reg......(I will get you a PH. NO. to order the bosch..it took me numerous calls to track it down and part no.) WHAT EVER YOU DO ...DO NOT TAKE YOUR MOTOR UNDER BOOST OVER 4,000 RPM.S UNTIL YOU GET YOUT AIR FUEL MIXTURE SET ONA DYNO! You are looking at blowing a motor due to detonation.

chico · 10-25-2002, 06:03 PM

Try this...I can hardly read my own writing( could not find receipt) You want to order Bosch 240 lph @ 50 psi. with barbed fittings....Kinsler PH. no.s 909-735-2490 or 248-362-1145...good luck

MiracleMax · 10-25-2002, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chico
???? I'm a little confused, unless I am missing something I see no reason why the Bosch inline would not work..just bump your fuel pressure up a notch on the reg......(I will get you a PH. NO. to order the bosch..it took me numerous calls to track it down and part no.) WHAT EVER YOU DO ...DO NOT TAKE YOUR MOTOR UNDER BOOST OVER 4,000 RPM.S UNTIL YOU GET YOUT AIR FUEL MIXTURE SET ONA DYNO! You are looking at blowing a motor due to detonation.

Thats probably because the stock pump is a variable pressure piece. The returnless fuel system stangs don't have a regulator.

Steeda also sells a dual pump/injector/flashed ECM set-up for S/C'd stangs. The 03 Cobra pump is supposed to be nice to and includes some sort of baffling.

chico · 10-25-2002, 08:05 PM

Neither do the stock cobras..buy a boost sensitive fuel reg. along with the in line pump..$96.00...again maybe I am missing something.....later when you jump to over 560 rwhp you can move to the 1000lph aeromotive set up..

MiracleMax · 10-25-2002, 11:26 PM

the 03 Cobra pump is a dual pump set-up.

On the returnless cars, fuel pressure is regulated by varying the voltage to the pump which varies the speed of the pump changing the pressure.

if your going to use an aftermarket pump with a boost referenced regulator, your going to have to wire the pump in seperate so that whatever controls the stock pump doesn't vary the voltage to the new pump.

chico · 10-26-2002, 12:02 PM

Not sure myself,I contacted the expert...BYRON REYNOLDS of RACE SYSTEMS...Ford SEFI Custom Computer Callbration...This is his reply........

"There are multiple problems with the 2001 fuel system...here's the biggies...

1. The bucket the pump sits in is filled by a fluid powered fluid pump(a jet pump,like a jet boat). It lifts fuel into the bucket. This jet pump can only handle 120lph.

2.The pump is PWM controlled, like a light dimmer. Using different than OEM pumps can create problems...there are only a few pumps that work "sort of OK" on this returnless system.
The solution: For under 400rwhp, use a Walbro GSS342 in the tank and don't WOT the car for more than 20 seconds at a time.

If you don't like either of these limitations, then convert the car to a return fuel system and sump the tank. I can modify the chip to make the system understand a regulator and return line. We've done this before. Aeromotive sells sumped fuel tanks.

Byron"

MiracleMax · 10-26-2002, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chico
1. The bucket the pump sits in is filled by a fluid powered fluid pump(a jet pump,like a jet boat). It lifts fuel into the bucket. This jet pump can only handle 120lph.

did he specify single or dual pump system? The GT's come with a single pump while the S/C'd Cobra's come with a dual pump and Steeda's dual pump is a spec'd unit made with parts from Bosch and Visteon. I doubt the dual pump set-up would give your 240 lph (probably more like 190 to 200??, unless the single pump is only good for 60 ro so lph)

Contact Steeda and see what thier pump is designed to handle?

Hammer · 10-26-2002, 06:52 PM

This is a great thread.
Lots of good info getting passed around.

But one thing is clear:
I'm glad I've got a 98....

chico · 10-26-2002, 07:03 PM

I'm sure he was making reference to the later model GT's only..If anyone has any questions...Byron will probably answer via E-mail only. Byron@RaceSystems.com...good luck to all..this guy can answer any question on ford products ..he is also consultant to SVT eng,s. And the Canada boys call on him a lot. His nick name here in Ca. is Dr. Tune..

10-24-2002, 12:26 AM	#1
mlambrecht82 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 101	bucking In-tank fuel pump No, I'm not trying to sneak profanity into my subject line, my fuel pump really bucks, and it's driving me carzy!!! Please help! I have a 02 GT with a procharger. The car bucks (bounces) under partial throttle, I was told that this is due to the incompatability with the pump and my stang. I believe this theory is correct because the pump wen tout once and procharger sent me a new one (it took 5 days, even though I called at 7am and told them rush rush rush!) when I put the new one in the bucking was gone for about a day then it slightly started up again, now it is driving me crazy again. This is an everyday driver and now with my exhaust cut outs it is really noticable because you can hear the engine bucking. Thanks for all your help everyone. __________________ _________________________________ 04 Cobra densecharger CAI BBK off road X pipe Custom Electronic Exhaust cut outs Tuning via Diablo Predator Ported and polished Throttle body and plenum Line locker (for the smoke shows) Stock boost 412 rwhp 379 rwtq

10-24-2002, 01:13 PM	#2
Hammer AKA "Dr. Evil" Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: South Fork Ranch Posts: 1,721	I'd say its time to pony up some cash and get yourself an aeromotive fuel pump... __________________ Uncle Sam "What the hell is up with all the gauges? Calling Captain Kirk, your ride awaits... Phasers on stun...."

10-24-2002, 01:33 PM	#3
Eric4Nitrous Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Va Posts: 1,122	I do believe your right hammer..... __________________ 68 Camaro Gene Fulton 632ci Two stages of Jug 8.41 164mph Rockingham 1-26-03

10-24-2002, 01:41 PM	#4
mlambrecht82 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 101	elaborate more on this aeromotive fuel pump you speak of. __________________ _________________________________ 04 Cobra densecharger CAI BBK off road X pipe Custom Electronic Exhaust cut outs Tuning via Diablo Predator Ported and polished Throttle body and plenum Line locker (for the smoke shows) Stock boost 412 rwhp 379 rwtq

10-24-2002, 02:18 PM	#5
mlambrecht82 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 101	I'm looking at the eliminator or mayme the a1000. I don't know if the A1000 will flow enough. I'm flowing 255lph right know what does that convert to in pounds, I think it is somewhere around 600lbs/hour. http://216.242.145.16/products/product.phtml?p=2 __________________ _________________________________ 04 Cobra densecharger CAI BBK off road X pipe Custom Electronic Exhaust cut outs Tuning via Diablo Predator Ported and polished Throttle body and plenum Line locker (for the smoke shows) Stock boost 412 rwhp 379 rwtq

10-24-2002, 03:47 PM	#6
Hammer AKA "Dr. Evil" Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: South Fork Ranch Posts: 1,721	The A1000 should work just fine. Stats are in this link: http://216.242.145.16/products/produ...ml?p=3&large=2 __________________ Uncle Sam "What the hell is up with all the gauges? Calling Captain Kirk, your ride awaits... Phasers on stun...."

10-24-2002, 05:13 PM	#7
chico Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Manteca,Ca. Posts: 114	bucking /fuel pumpYou really do You really do not need the aeromotive fuel pump (which requires the sumped fuel tank ,lines and fuel rails todo it correctly) your 255 in tank with a 245 bosch in line , stock fuel lines and rails into adjustable fuel reg. This set up is good for up to 560 rwhp.. If you have a FMU (supplied by your Mfg. of supercharger) get rid of it and have a custom chip cut on dyno. The Bosch has braided fittings, making it easy to hook up to stock lines.Sells for about $140.00..Takes 30 min. to hook up. Correction..barbed fittings, not braided __________________ 98 cobra convt. 515 rwhp 421 torque..554 rwhp on 98 octane..635 rwhp this summer Last edited by chico; 10-24-2002 at 05:28 PM..

10-24-2002, 10:09 PM	#9
chico Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Manteca,Ca. Posts: 114	fuel pump QUICK NOTE AND OBSERVATION...YOU GUYS ARE LUCKY TO HAVE A MODERATOR WITH THE EXPERIENCE AND PATIENCE TO DEAL WITH SOME OF YOU AND NO LPATIENCE GUYS LIKE ME..HE SEEMS TO KNOW HIS CARS AND PEOPLE.... CHANGED MY ATTITUDE... __________________ 98 cobra convt. 515 rwhp 421 torque..554 rwhp on 98 octane..635 rwhp this summer

10-25-2002, 12:25 AM	#10
mlambrecht82 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 101	okay, I don't have an inline fuel pump. That is what I was planning on getting. Now where can I get this bosch 245? Is it just an inline fuel pump? $140 sounds a lot better than $400. I talked to the guys that sold me the kit today and he said that my bypass valve was screwy. That didn't seem right as it would show up on my boost gauge, and the fact that when I put a new pump in it worked great for a day. So I took the belt off my charger and am now running no boost, and it still bucks, so I know it isn't the bypass valve. (My god my car is slow, with no boost) I do have a custom chip from diablo because procharger didn't have one out for my 02 stang yet. (I had to dish out an extra $400 for the custom chip that I wasn't to happy about) My A/F gauge says that my car is running extremely lean and it has never seen stoich. I called diablo on this and they said that my $50 gauge was wrong. But if my car is running lean then that would explain why I get detonation every now and then and my car isn't performing up to par. I need to get this thing dyno tuned, but the closest diablo tuner is 4 hrs away. I'm hoping that I can slap on this bosch pump and get the bucking to stop for know and then later on (when finances persist) go down and get all the power squezed out of my 4.6. Thanks a lot for your guys help, I don't know what I would do with out this board. I think I am going to look in to getting this bosch pump for now unless someone thinks otherweis. Speak now or forever hold your peace. __________________ _________________________________ 04 Cobra densecharger CAI BBK off road X pipe Custom Electronic Exhaust cut outs Tuning via Diablo Predator Ported and polished Throttle body and plenum Line locker (for the smoke shows) Stock boost 412 rwhp 379 rwtq

10-25-2002, 04:15 PM	#11
mlambrecht82 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Fresno, CA Posts: 101	I just emailed Sean Hyland Motorsports with the problem. They said that the Bosch pump won't work with my returnless fuel system. They said my only choice is to either put my stock pump back in, or buy a twin pump set up with a module for $420. I wish I didn't have to spend so much, 'cause I want to get some electric cut outs also. But first things first. __________________ _________________________________ 04 Cobra densecharger CAI BBK off road X pipe Custom Electronic Exhaust cut outs Tuning via Diablo Predator Ported and polished Throttle body and plenum Line locker (for the smoke shows) Stock boost 412 rwhp 379 rwtq

10-25-2002, 05:50 PM	#12
chico Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Manteca,Ca. Posts: 114	Bucking fuel pump ???? I'm a little confused, unless I am missing something I see no reason why the Bosch inline would not work..just bump your fuel pressure up a notch on the reg......(I will get you a PH. NO. to order the bosch..it took me numerous calls to track it down and part no.) WHAT EVER YOU DO ...DO NOT TAKE YOUR MOTOR UNDER BOOST OVER 4,000 RPM.S UNTIL YOU GET YOUT AIR FUEL MIXTURE SET ONA DYNO! You are looking at blowing a motor due to detonation. __________________ 98 cobra convt. 515 rwhp 421 torque..554 rwhp on 98 octane..635 rwhp this summer

10-25-2002, 06:03 PM	#13
chico Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Manteca,Ca. Posts: 114	bucking fuel pump Try this...I can hardly read my own writing( could not find receipt) You want to order Bosch 240 lph @ 50 psi. with barbed fittings....Kinsler PH. no.s 909-735-2490 or 248-362-1145...good luck __________________ 98 cobra convt. 515 rwhp 421 torque..554 rwhp on 98 octane..635 rwhp this summer

10-25-2002, 08:05 PM	#15
chico Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Manteca,Ca. Posts: 114	bucking fuel pump Neither do the stock cobras..buy a boost sensitive fuel reg. along with the in line pump..$96.00...again maybe I am missing something.....later when you jump to over 560 rwhp you can move to the 1000lph aeromotive set up.. __________________ 98 cobra convt. 515 rwhp 421 torque..554 rwhp on 98 octane..635 rwhp this summer

10-25-2002, 11:26 PM	#16
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	the 03 Cobra pump is a dual pump set-up. On the returnless cars, fuel pressure is regulated by varying the voltage to the pump which varies the speed of the pump changing the pressure. if your going to use an aftermarket pump with a boost referenced regulator, your going to have to wire the pump in seperate so that whatever controls the stock pump doesn't vary the voltage to the new pump. __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

10-26-2002, 12:02 PM	#17
chico Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Manteca,Ca. Posts: 114	bucking fuel pump Not sure myself,I contacted the expert...BYRON REYNOLDS of RACE SYSTEMS...Ford SEFI Custom Computer Callbration...This is his reply........ "There are multiple problems with the 2001 fuel system...here's the biggies... 1. The bucket the pump sits in is filled by a fluid powered fluid pump(a jet pump,like a jet boat). It lifts fuel into the bucket. This jet pump can only handle 120lph. 2.The pump is PWM controlled, like a light dimmer. Using different than OEM pumps can create problems...there are only a few pumps that work "sort of OK" on this returnless system. The solution: For under 400rwhp, use a Walbro GSS342 in the tank and don't WOT the car for more than 20 seconds at a time. If you don't like either of these limitations, then convert the car to a return fuel system and sump the tank. I can modify the chip to make the system understand a regulator and return line. We've done this before. Aeromotive sells sumped fuel tanks. Byron" __________________ 98 cobra convt. 515 rwhp 421 torque..554 rwhp on 98 octane..635 rwhp this summer

10-26-2002, 06:52 PM	#19
Hammer AKA "Dr. Evil" Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: South Fork Ranch Posts: 1,721	This is a great thread. Lots of good info getting passed around. But one thing is clear: I'm glad I've got a 98.... __________________ Uncle Sam "What the hell is up with all the gauges? Calling Captain Kirk, your ride awaits... Phasers on stun...."

10-26-2002, 07:03 PM	#20
chico Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Manteca,Ca. Posts: 114	Bucking fuel pump I'm sure he was making reference to the later model GT's only..If anyone has any questions...Byron will probably answer via E-mail only. Byron@RaceSystems.com...good luck to all..this guy can answer any question on ford products ..he is also consultant to SVT eng,s. And the Canada boys call on him a lot. His nick name here in Ca. is Dr. Tune.. __________________ 98 cobra convt. 515 rwhp 421 torque..554 rwhp on 98 octane..635 rwhp this summer

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