Cam install questions

chris91LX · 01-24-2002, 12:51 AM

Is assembly lube allright to use or do I have to have "cam" lube?

When I put the cam in, I turn the crank until cyl #1 is at TDC, which way should the cam gear be facing? I've got the Ford Motorsport High Performance full roller multi index timing chain set. The big sprocket has the single dot but the little one has a bunch of indexing points, 2A thru 8A and 2R thru 8R. If I were to guess I would line it up right in the middle of the 2A (Advance) and the 2R (Retard). Do I line that up so that point is straight up at the dot on the big sprocket?

Should I lube up the timing chain? If so with what, oil or assembly lube?

Also, is there a good cleaner I can use to remove the carbon buildup on the pistons?

Thanks guys. BTW I'm putting in the TFS stage 1 cam if it makes any difference.

WADS56 · 01-24-2002, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chris91LX
If I were to guess I would line it up right in the middle of the 2A (Advance) and the 2R (Retard). Do I line that up so that point is straight up at the dot on the big sprocket?

That is the correct way if you did not want to use a degree wheel which would be the right way.
How are you finding tdc? I hope you are not going by the marks on the damper.
As far as cam lube... I always use "Redline assembly lube" on all the engins I build (bearings, cam, etc...)

MikeWeber · 01-24-2002, 05:56 AM

On hydraulic roller cams, I usually just use engine oil. The friction is very small compared to flat tappet cams and they don't need to be broke in like they do too. I know that's not the "correct" way but I've never had a problem with cam or lifter longevity.

chris91LX · 01-24-2002, 10:37 AM

I'm finding TDC by looking at the piston in cylinder #1, when it's at the top of the stroke I'm assuming it's TDC. The heads are off too (new Edelbrock 6032's going on).

WADS56 · 01-25-2002, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chris91LX
I'm finding TDC by looking at the piston in cylinder #1, when it's at the top of the stroke I'm assuming it's TDC. The heads are off too (new Edelbrock 6032's going on).

You can not find TDC that way. If you try it that way your cam timing could be way off and your car will run like crap.
Get a piston stop and a degree wheel.

chris91LX · 01-25-2002, 12:41 AM

So if i turn the crank until the piston is at the top of the stroke in cylinder one, which I can see as the heads are off the car, and the tongue or groove (or whatever you call it) on the crank shaft (where the dampener goes) is straight up, your saying that is not TDC?

WADS56 · 01-25-2002, 12:58 AM

It may look like TDC, but there is something you are forgeting about. The piston may be at the top of the bore, but the crank still needs to turn a few degrees (dwell time) to be at exact TDC. you may be off as much as 4 degrees.

DZEE'S LX · 01-25-2002, 01:08 AM

Chris,

It seems like your method would work. If not, I'd like to know why.
The big question is whether or not your #1 is at the end of the compression OR the exhaust stroke. You can tell if it's right, before you put the timing cover back on, if you watch the lifters as the #1 piston comes up. If the exhaust lifter moves when the piston starts up then you are 180 deg off. Both valves must be closed if you are on the compression stroke. TDC is at the top of this compression stroke.
Not sure if you have a manual, but I have both the Haynes and Ford books and they both talk about how to find TDC. The problem is that they tell you how to do it by marking your distributor and finding TDC before you remove stuff.
With heads off you can fashion whatever you want to make sure the piston is exactly at the top.
I'm wondering why it was stated that you can't use the timing marks? If you set your gears and chain correctly how would you ever use a timing light for timing if you can't trust the marks?

I may be wrong here. An education on the degree wheel and piston stop would be helpful.

Dan

chris91LX · 01-25-2002, 01:21 AM

Maybe it's a good thing I'm having problems with my timing chain cover, I can still get at the cam. Anyway, I'll check it again, but I don't have a degree wheel or a piston stop and i know of several people who have put their cams in this way and they say it's worked for them.

Hey Wads56, can you educate me as to how the degree wheel and piston stop works?

WADS56 · 01-25-2002, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by chris91LX
Maybe it's a good thing I'm having problems with my timing chain cover, I can still get at the cam. Anyway, I'll check it again, but I don't have a degree wheel or a piston stop and i know of several people who have put their cams in this way and they say it's worked for them.

Hey Wads56, can you educate me as to how the degree wheel and piston stop works?

I agree allot of people do cam swaps without all the stuff I was talking about and it works fine. But do they have there engine tore down to a short block? Did they spin the crank when they took out there old cam? If they didn't you can put a new cam in because nothing has changed, but they still don't know if the cam is degreed to specs.
You may have good luck or a good eye but the only way to know for sure is to get a cam degree kit.
Here is how it works...

Install the degree wheel on the crank, and the pointer on the block, and the piston stop over the bore.
Turn the crank till the piston hits the stop and mark the wheel where the pointer is. Now turn the crank in the other direction till the piston hits the stop again and put a mark on the degree wheel where the pointer is. Now look on the wheel and find the half way point between the two marks you made on the wheel. that is TDC.
You may of came close by doing it by eye, but now you will know for sure.

Now degreeing the cam is another story, but if you have TDC it is not required for a street engine.

01-24-2002, 05:56 AM	#3
MikeWeber Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Louisville, KY, USA Posts: 48	On hydraulic roller cams, I usually just use engine oil. The friction is very small compared to flat tappet cams and they don't need to be broke in like they do too. I know that's not the "correct" way but I've never had a problem with cam or lifter longevity. __________________ 88 NMRA Pure Street coupe 95 GT-heads, cam, exhaust, intake, road-race suspension 97 Taurus SHO-K&N, ported meter 95 Escort GT-Pacesetter header & exhaust, Weapon R intake tube

01-25-2002, 12:58 AM	#7
WADS56 gear banger Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: CHICAGO Posts: 1,144	It may look like TDC, but there is something you are forgeting about. The piston may be at the top of the bore, but the crank still needs to turn a few degrees (dwell time) to be at exact TDC. you may be off as much as 4 degrees. __________________ 79 Hatch: NA 347, Stage 2 Canfield Heads, Victor JR. Intake, Blueprinted Holley 750 HP, Solid Roller Cam, Shooting for 10's on motor 93 LX: Tremec, dual friction clutch, fms flywheel, Hedman shorties, O/R H-pipe Ricer hater's club member #49

01-25-2002, 01:08 AM	#8
DZEE'S LX Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 117	Chris, It seems like your method would work. If not, I'd like to know why. The big question is whether or not your #1 is at the end of the compression OR the exhaust stroke. You can tell if it's right, before you put the timing cover back on, if you watch the lifters as the #1 piston comes up. If the exhaust lifter moves when the piston starts up then you are 180 deg off. Both valves must be closed if you are on the compression stroke. TDC is at the top of this compression stroke. Not sure if you have a manual, but I have both the Haynes and Ford books and they both talk about how to find TDC. The problem is that they tell you how to do it by marking your distributor and finding TDC before you remove stuff. With heads off you can fashion whatever you want to make sure the piston is exactly at the top. I'm wondering why it was stated that you can't use the timing marks? If you set your gears and chain correctly how would you ever use a timing light for timing if you can't trust the marks? I may be wrong here. An education on the degree wheel and piston stop would be helpful. Dan __________________ Spec Service (UHP), BFG G-Force KDW's, Turbo Coupe 3.55 rear w/disks, 73mm calipers, Stg 1 Twisted Wedges, TFS Street Intake, 70mm TB, E cam, Crane 1.7's, Aeromotive FPR, BBK 1 5/8 shorties, elec fan, FMS Al Radiator, Moroso Wires, Kenne Bell Ramair, March pulleys, Race Magnums, 190 lph Walbro, FMS Al Dshaft, D/S loop, MM 4point rollbar, FMS C spngs, strut tower brace, Tokico Illuminas, Prothane bushings, MM Lwr Conrol Arms, KB welded subs, Cervini Mach 1 hood/valence/side skirts/wing/airdam.

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01-24-2002, 12:51 AM	#1
chris91LX Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Suburban Chicago, Hanover Park Posts: 695	Cam install questions Is assembly lube allright to use or do I have to have "cam" lube? When I put the cam in, I turn the crank until cyl #1 is at TDC, which way should the cam gear be facing? I've got the Ford Motorsport High Performance full roller multi index timing chain set. The big sprocket has the single dot but the little one has a bunch of indexing points, 2A thru 8A and 2R thru 8R. If I were to guess I would line it up right in the middle of the 2A (Advance) and the 2R (Retard). Do I line that up so that point is straight up at the dot on the big sprocket? Should I lube up the timing chain? If so with what, oil or assembly lube? Also, is there a good cleaner I can use to remove the carbon buildup on the pistons? Thanks guys. BTW I'm putting in the TFS stage 1 cam if it makes any difference. __________________ My Ford Club http://www.midwestfords.org/ Best time N/A 12.9 @ 107 1.711 60' 125 shot - 12.04 @ 113 1.59 60'

01-24-2002, 10:37 AM	#4
chris91LX Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Suburban Chicago, Hanover Park Posts: 695	I'm finding TDC by looking at the piston in cylinder #1, when it's at the top of the stroke I'm assuming it's TDC. The heads are off too (new Edelbrock 6032's going on).

01-25-2002, 12:41 AM	#6
chris91LX Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Suburban Chicago, Hanover Park Posts: 695	So if i turn the crank until the piston is at the top of the stroke in cylinder one, which I can see as the heads are off the car, and the tongue or groove (or whatever you call it) on the crank shaft (where the dampener goes) is straight up, your saying that is not TDC?

01-25-2002, 01:21 AM	#9
chris91LX Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Suburban Chicago, Hanover Park Posts: 695	Maybe it's a good thing I'm having problems with my timing chain cover, I can still get at the cam. Anyway, I'll check it again, but I don't have a degree wheel or a piston stop and i know of several people who have put their cams in this way and they say it's worked for them. Hey Wads56, can you educate me as to how the degree wheel and piston stop works?