Cant Wont Go Past 2500 RPM part: II **LONG**

caliplaya650 · 09-20-2001, 09:45 PM

If have read the previous post then you know whats going on.

I havent been able to find the problem but i think i may know what the problem may be.
I was driving when i realized after i had installed all of the parts that i have had replaced all of the hoses from the air pump to the vacuums and so on. Before all of the hoses were cracked the primary hoses from the air pump to the vacuum was rotted from the heat all along the side. I have heard that if the cat's dont recieve fresh air they get damaged and clogged. When i drive and i have the car in OD and put it in passing gear it will start to surge and the cats on the right hand side will pop loudly a couple times and then stop and the car will just stay at about 2000-2500 rpm. And today the car also popped on my side for the first time. Could it be possible that the car wont accelerate any further b/c the cats are heavily clogged and when the fresh air reaches them the unburned fuel has accumalated to the point where it explodes?
LIke it does when i hammer the gas???

If you have any more ideas or can help me piece 2gether a solution post!!!!
THANKS

------------------
1992 Mustang 5.0
BBK cold air intake
Dual Flows w/ H Pipe
BBK Underdrive Pulleys
BBK 65mm Throttle Body

Unit 5302 · 09-20-2001, 11:25 PM

You are running lean. Bad fuel injectors, MAF, or something else is causing your car to be short on fuel.

2FastLX · 09-21-2001, 01:51 AM

When I first saw you post, before I even read it I was thinking cats. There's a real easy way to find out for sure... pull the crossover out and drive it with open headers and see how it does.

Oh wait, the O2 sensors are mounted in the crossover. Well, you could pull the crossover easy enough and check the cats to see if they are plugged.

Do you have emissions? If not get rid of them

------------------
Gunning for 12's!

Buy your parts here
ICQ# 42269241

[This message has been edited by 2FastLX (edited 09-21-2001).]

PKRWUD · 09-21-2001, 02:31 AM

Cali-
I think you are 100% correct. Get a vacuum gauge, and hook it up to manifold vacuum. Start the engine, and note where the needle is. Go away for 15 minutes. have some coffee, get laid, whatever. When you get back, check and see if the vacuum gauge needle has moved. if it has dropped , you have a restricted exhaust

Take care
~Chris

90dpscoupe · 09-21-2001, 02:36 AM

bad compwter?

caliplaya650 · 09-21-2001, 12:45 PM

PKRWUD where would i attach the vacuum gauge hose to. What should the Vacuum read at first 15 ???????

Timing? Where should the White out Line be when when the light hits it? I marked it at 10 and when the light hits it the mark is in between the metal piece. It reads
time ------->
|
|
| the line ends up between here
|
|
|
(O)End of the metal piece

2fastlx => If i pulled out the Crossover how would i be able to tell if they're clogged b/c i have two on each side! If it is the cats im not sure if WA has the strict emissions if not!! Im goin to thow in a X pipe w/ o cats

Unit 5302 => I doubt it would be anything electrical such as the MAF Injectors and so on b/c they ran perfectly before and i run codes about once a week to see if any thing is wrong and i dont get any. So The cats are the one thing the computer wont pick up on and what could have been the problem all along!

------------------
1992 Mustang 5.0
BBK cold air intake
Dual Flows w/ H Pipe
BBK Underdrive Pulleys
BBK 65mm Throttle Body

[This message has been edited by caliplaya650 (edited 09-21-2001).]

PKRWUD · 09-21-2001, 07:06 PM

There should be a vacuum tree mounted on the firewall, with several ports. If one of them has a cap on it, you can pull the cap and use that port. If thet are all in use, then splice a "T" into any of those hoses, and plug the gauge hose into the third nipple (just remember to cap it when you are done). I don't remember all your mods, or mileage, so telling you what the vacuum gauge should read is iffy at best. If there are no internal mods (including rockers), 18" is standard. 15" is borderline. With a cam, these numbers will be lower. BUT, it doesn't really matter. What you are looking for is a change while idling for 15 minutes. Start the engine, and write down the number it idles at. Go away for 15 minutes, and check it again. Post your results, telling me BOTH numbers.

Your timing question is best answered this way:

Some engines have a single line on the balancer which denotes TDC, and then have a tag on the engine with degree marks noted on it. Others do it the opposite. For clarity, I will explain this presuming you have the first type of setup. If it's the opposite, do it accordingly.

You should have two items marked. Find the single grooved line on the balancer. apply a thin line of liquid paper on it. Now find the 10 degree mark on the tag. Apply a thin line of liquid paper to it. Remove the Spout connector, and start the engine. Point the timing light at the tag, and pull the trigger. The object is to get the lines to match up. This is accomplished by turning the distributor. If you are going to eventually change your timing, it would be worthwhile to buy a timing light that has an adjustable dial near the handle. What this does is change the timing light by the degrees chosen on the dial. With one of these, you always make the liquid paper degree mark at zero, and then just turn the dial until the lines match up. Then read the dial, and it tells you exactly how many degrees your set at. This also prevents you from having liquid paper marks all over your degree tag.

Does that help?

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

[This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 09-21-2001).]

caliplaya650 · 09-22-2001, 12:23 PM

PKRWUD, Its back to the drawing board i ran the vacuum test and it was @ about 16 Inches HG. I followd the CHiltons direction i had the car warmed up and slowly raised the idle to 2k RPM and the needle rose to about 20 In HG. According to the Manual there is no restriction. I dont understand why the car can raise the rpms fine if i slowly raise the rpms until i get to the point where the car would normally go into passing gear. Do you know any one who has had clogged cats?? SO i can have some idea as to what symptons i should be having! mad: :Confused:

Unit 5302 · 09-22-2001, 12:46 PM

I'm pretty sure the backfire in your cat is because you are running lean. I've seen it several times before. Actually, it can come from a leaky fuel injector too. Something in your fuel system isn't pushing enough fuel into the engine, or your TPS is bad, or your MAF is bad. I'm pretty sure it's related to fuel.

I'm not aware of clogged cats cauing backfiring, just a loss of power, and I don't really think it happens instantly.

As far as it not being something electrical because it was running so good before, sometimes stuff just breaks, or gets a bad connection. Stuff doens't always run bad before it terrible.

[This message has been edited by Unit 5302 (edited 09-22-2001).]

PKRWUD · 09-22-2001, 04:03 PM

I really wish you would check the vacuum at idle the way I asked you to. It would tell me alot.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

caliplaya650 · 09-22-2001, 09:20 PM

Unit 5302. But if it was an injector or something of the sort wouldnt the EEC CPU pick up on it???

PKRWUD I ran the test and it was fine it started @ 15 the most it increased to 17 then later dropped back to 16. SO im assuming that the exhaust system is functioning properly.

O yah i talked to my G/f's dad about whats going on and he told me that the cats arent what i thought they were. The "Popping is coming from the canister looking things that are right after the headers but before the O2 sensor. What are they???

[This message has been edited by caliplaya650 (edited 09-22-2001).]

PKRWUD · 09-23-2001, 06:28 AM

Thank you.

Those are the pre-cats.

I've become quite lost with this one, so forgive me if we've covered this before. Have you had any codes? KOEO? KOER? Did any of them get corrected? Are there any codes, both KOEO and KOER, now? Remind me what's going on.

Take care
~Chris

------------------
Retired Moderator
MustangNet

My site: JimPorterRacing

RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR

HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

caliplaya650 · 09-23-2001, 12:04 PM

PKRWUD: I had run the codes before on KOEO/KOER tests and i didnt get back any except for a code 66 66.

Im probably going to just take it to a mechanic.

Thanks for the help tho.

Unit 5302 · 09-23-2001, 12:46 PM

No, if it was an injector the computer would not trip a check engine light. The backfire you hear is not coming from the cats, it's coming from the engine, it just sounds like a hollow "bunk" sound as the cats muffel the backfire.

For some reason you are not getting enough fuel. Check your TPS voltage and see what it's coming up with, see if it's giving you full throttle, and pull the plugs to check what they look like. Are they carboned up or wet? Are they white and ashey? Double check your MAF is connected properly, especially if you disconnected it when you were working on that side of the engine to get at the hoses.

Popping on both sides indicates to me a less likely fuel injector scenerio, but a more likely fuel pump problem, MAF problem or TPS problem.

caliplaya650 · 09-23-2001, 10:22 PM

Unit 5305 i think u might be right bro. I ran the codes again and it came up w/ error code 96 on the second set of codes both times. But i got none on the KOER test.

code 96 is: FUel pump secondary circuit fault/ high speed fuel pump relay open.

The other time i got a code like that was when i was driving from cali to wa and got error code 95: Fuel pump secondary fault.
and when that happened i thought i was going ot be stranded in a gas station where the owner had just told me not to park there b.c i would get towed. LOL
THe other time i got it was when i was done installing all of the parts i had bought.

So is the circuit w/ in the pump? That way i can go and buy a new one. Or is the circuit elsewhere?

O and the "popping" isnt coming from the cats' its coming from the "pre-cats"

Unit 5302 · 09-24-2001, 06:13 PM

It just sounds like it's coming from the exhaust, really it's a backfire in the engine. The H pipe with cats/precats echo the sound. It's not a good thing to have them doing that btw, you can blow your converter honeycomb to bits.

Well, the fuel pump relay is under your seat. There is more the the fuel pump circuit than just that though. The fuel pump itself could be weak. I'd give it a fuel pressure test and see what that looks like. The fuel pressure may be low, which would cause your car to run lean and "pop".

09-20-2001, 09:45 PM	#1
caliplaya650 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Wa USA Posts: 72	Cant Wont Go Past 2500 RPM part: II LONG If have read the previous post then you know whats going on. I havent been able to find the problem but i think i may know what the problem may be. I was driving when i realized after i had installed all of the parts that i have had replaced all of the hoses from the air pump to the vacuums and so on. Before all of the hoses were cracked the primary hoses from the air pump to the vacuum was rotted from the heat all along the side. I have heard that if the cat's dont recieve fresh air they get damaged and clogged. When i drive and i have the car in OD and put it in passing gear it will start to surge and the cats on the right hand side will pop loudly a couple times and then stop and the car will just stay at about 2000-2500 rpm. And today the car also popped on my side for the first time. Could it be possible that the car wont accelerate any further b/c the cats are heavily clogged and when the fresh air reaches them the unburned fuel has accumalated to the point where it explodes? LIke it does when i hammer the gas??? If you have any more ideas or can help me piece 2gether a solution post!!!! THANKS ------------------ 1992 Mustang 5.0 BBK cold air intake Dual Flows w/ H Pipe BBK Underdrive Pulleys BBK 65mm Throttle Body

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09-20-2001, 11:25 PM	#2
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	You are running lean. Bad fuel injectors, MAF, or something else is causing your car to be short on fuel.

09-21-2001, 01:51 AM	#3
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	When I first saw you post, before I even read it I was thinking cats. There's a real easy way to find out for sure... pull the crossover out and drive it with open headers and see how it does. Oh wait, the O2 sensors are mounted in the crossover. Well, you could pull the crossover easy enough and check the cats to see if they are plugged. Do you have emissions? If not get rid of them ------------------ Gunning for 12's! Buy your parts here ICQ# 42269241 [This message has been edited by 2FastLX (edited 09-21-2001).]

09-21-2001, 02:31 AM	#4
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Cali- I think you are 100% correct. Get a vacuum gauge, and hook it up to manifold vacuum. Start the engine, and note where the needle is. Go away for 15 minutes. have some coffee, get laid, whatever. When you get back, check and see if the vacuum gauge needle has moved. if it has dropped , you have a restricted exhaust Take care ~Chris

09-21-2001, 02:36 AM	#5
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	bad compwter?

09-21-2001, 12:45 PM	#6
caliplaya650 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Wa USA Posts: 72	PKRWUD where would i attach the vacuum gauge hose to. What should the Vacuum read at first 15 ??????? Timing? Where should the White out Line be when when the light hits it? I marked it at 10 and when the light hits it the mark is in between the metal piece. It reads time -------> \| \| \| the line ends up between here \| \| \| (O)End of the metal piece 2fastlx => If i pulled out the Crossover how would i be able to tell if they're clogged b/c i have two on each side! If it is the cats im not sure if WA has the strict emissions if not!! Im goin to thow in a X pipe w/ o cats Unit 5302 => I doubt it would be anything electrical such as the MAF Injectors and so on b/c they ran perfectly before and i run codes about once a week to see if any thing is wrong and i dont get any. So The cats are the one thing the computer wont pick up on and what could have been the problem all along! ------------------ 1992 Mustang 5.0 BBK cold air intake Dual Flows w/ H Pipe BBK Underdrive Pulleys BBK 65mm Throttle Body [This message has been edited by caliplaya650 (edited 09-21-2001).]

09-21-2001, 07:06 PM	#7
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	There should be a vacuum tree mounted on the firewall, with several ports. If one of them has a cap on it, you can pull the cap and use that port. If thet are all in use, then splice a "T" into any of those hoses, and plug the gauge hose into the third nipple (just remember to cap it when you are done). I don't remember all your mods, or mileage, so telling you what the vacuum gauge should read is iffy at best. If there are no internal mods (including rockers), 18" is standard. 15" is borderline. With a cam, these numbers will be lower. BUT, it doesn't really matter. What you are looking for is a change while idling for 15 minutes. Start the engine, and write down the number it idles at. Go away for 15 minutes, and check it again. Post your results, telling me BOTH numbers. Your timing question is best answered this way: Some engines have a single line on the balancer which denotes TDC, and then have a tag on the engine with degree marks noted on it. Others do it the opposite. For clarity, I will explain this presuming you have the first type of setup. If it's the opposite, do it accordingly. You should have two items marked. Find the single grooved line on the balancer. apply a thin line of liquid paper on it. Now find the 10 degree mark on the tag. Apply a thin line of liquid paper to it. Remove the Spout connector, and start the engine. Point the timing light at the tag, and pull the trigger. The object is to get the lines to match up. This is accomplished by turning the distributor. If you are going to eventually change your timing, it would be worthwhile to buy a timing light that has an adjustable dial near the handle. What this does is change the timing light by the degrees chosen on the dial. With one of these, you always make the liquid paper degree mark at zero, and then just turn the dial until the lines match up. Then read the dial, and it tells you exactly how many degrees your set at. This also prevents you from having liquid paper marks all over your degree tag. Does that help? Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!! [This message has been edited by PKRWUD (edited 09-21-2001).]

09-22-2001, 12:23 PM	#8
caliplaya650 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Wa USA Posts: 72	PKRWUD, Its back to the drawing board i ran the vacuum test and it was @ about 16 Inches HG. I followd the CHiltons direction i had the car warmed up and slowly raised the idle to 2k RPM and the needle rose to about 20 In HG. According to the Manual there is no restriction. I dont understand why the car can raise the rpms fine if i slowly raise the rpms until i get to the point where the car would normally go into passing gear. Do you know any one who has had clogged cats?? SO i can have some idea as to what symptons i should be having! mad: :Confused:

09-22-2001, 12:46 PM	#9
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I'm pretty sure the backfire in your cat is because you are running lean. I've seen it several times before. Actually, it can come from a leaky fuel injector too. Something in your fuel system isn't pushing enough fuel into the engine, or your TPS is bad, or your MAF is bad. I'm pretty sure it's related to fuel. I'm not aware of clogged cats cauing backfiring, just a loss of power, and I don't really think it happens instantly. As far as it not being something electrical because it was running so good before, sometimes stuff just breaks, or gets a bad connection. Stuff doens't always run bad before it terrible. [This message has been edited by Unit 5302 (edited 09-22-2001).]

09-22-2001, 04:03 PM	#10
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	I really wish you would check the vacuum at idle the way I asked you to. It would tell me alot. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-22-2001, 09:20 PM	#11
caliplaya650 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Wa USA Posts: 72	Unit 5302. But if it was an injector or something of the sort wouldnt the EEC CPU pick up on it??? PKRWUD I ran the test and it was fine it started @ 15 the most it increased to 17 then later dropped back to 16. SO im assuming that the exhaust system is functioning properly. O yah i talked to my G/f's dad about whats going on and he told me that the cats arent what i thought they were. The "Popping is coming from the canister looking things that are right after the headers but before the O2 sensor. What are they??? [This message has been edited by caliplaya650 (edited 09-22-2001).]

09-23-2001, 06:28 AM	#12
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Thank you. Those are the pre-cats. I've become quite lost with this one, so forgive me if we've covered this before. Have you had any codes? KOEO? KOER? Did any of them get corrected? Are there any codes, both KOEO and KOER, now? Remind me what's going on. Take care ~Chris ------------------ Retired Moderator MustangNet My site: JimPorterRacing RACECAR spelled backwards is RACECAR HEY !!! Are you ASE Certified ??? If you are, ask me about iATN. The best tool you'll ever have, and it's free !!!

09-23-2001, 12:04 PM	#13
caliplaya650 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Wa USA Posts: 72	PKRWUD: I had run the codes before on KOEO/KOER tests and i didnt get back any except for a code 66 66. Im probably going to just take it to a mechanic. Thanks for the help tho.

09-23-2001, 12:46 PM	#14
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	No, if it was an injector the computer would not trip a check engine light. The backfire you hear is not coming from the cats, it's coming from the engine, it just sounds like a hollow "bunk" sound as the cats muffel the backfire. For some reason you are not getting enough fuel. Check your TPS voltage and see what it's coming up with, see if it's giving you full throttle, and pull the plugs to check what they look like. Are they carboned up or wet? Are they white and ashey? Double check your MAF is connected properly, especially if you disconnected it when you were working on that side of the engine to get at the hoses. Popping on both sides indicates to me a less likely fuel injector scenerio, but a more likely fuel pump problem, MAF problem or TPS problem.

09-23-2001, 10:22 PM	#15
caliplaya650 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Moses Lake, Wa USA Posts: 72	Unit 5305 i think u might be right bro. I ran the codes again and it came up w/ error code 96 on the second set of codes both times. But i got none on the KOER test. code 96 is: FUel pump secondary circuit fault/ high speed fuel pump relay open. The other time i got a code like that was when i was driving from cali to wa and got error code 95: Fuel pump secondary fault. and when that happened i thought i was going ot be stranded in a gas station where the owner had just told me not to park there b.c i would get towed. LOL THe other time i got it was when i was done installing all of the parts i had bought. So is the circuit w/ in the pump? That way i can go and buy a new one. Or is the circuit elsewhere? O and the "popping" isnt coming from the cats' its coming from the "pre-cats"

09-24-2001, 06:13 PM	#16
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	It just sounds like it's coming from the exhaust, really it's a backfire in the engine. The H pipe with cats/precats echo the sound. It's not a good thing to have them doing that btw, you can blow your converter honeycomb to bits. Well, the fuel pump relay is under your seat. There is more the the fuel pump circuit than just that though. The fuel pump itself could be weak. I'd give it a fuel pressure test and see what that looks like. The fuel pressure may be low, which would cause your car to run lean and "pop".