clevelend swap

StripedStangLX · 03-18-2001, 03:11 PM

I was wondering if anyone has ever swaped a 351 cleveland into a fox body mustang. My grandfather has a 351 that is strocked out to a 400 and said I can have it. I intend to tweak it pretty good. With the right cam, heads, and carb how much horespower do you think i could get out of it?

------------------
91 LX: Green/white stripes, cam, roller rockers, underdrive pulleys, K&N, full length headers, high flow H-pipe, Flowmaster mufflers, other little engine mods, and some suspension work

84_GT350 · 03-18-2001, 05:33 PM

A 400 stroker? Sure it's not a 400M? They were pretty similar to Clevelands and I've never seen a stroker kit for a 400ci Cleveland. No matter...it really is a stroker Cleveland, with the right heads/cam/intake setup I'd say the mid 400hp range isn't out of the question. If it's a 400M, ditch it cuz that thing would make a better boat anchor than an engine. They're really dogs.

------------------
1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

StripedStangLX · 03-18-2001, 06:52 PM

My dad says that he is positive that it is a Cleveland engine. However, he doesn't know if it stroked or a different block or what. Personally, I don't know much about the Cleveland Engines and do not know how to tell if it is or not. I do know that it is out of a 1978 Ford LTD. I am a little optimistical that it is a Cleveland but if it is I'll be glad to take it.

------------------
91 LX: Green/white stripes, cam, roller rockers, underdrive pulleys, K&N, full length headers, high flow H-pipe, Flowmaster mufflers, other little engine mods, and some suspension work

03-19-2001, 09:50 PM

I asked aboot this a little while ago, since I have a 351C 2 barrel.. I ened up giving up on the idea,,,,its more cost effective to go with a Windsor from the responces I got...

------------------
Mike

Sold my 88GT Aug Y2K

Just got T-top 86GT 11-18-2000

82 GT · 03-20-2001, 10:51 AM

There was a guy on this board that installed a 351C into his '82 GT. His name was something like...medic4118 or something like that. I remember him saying he needed beefier front springs and he had to modify the steering shaft somehow. It sounded like a big pain in the a** to do, but he said it had tons of torque and had major traction problems. That was just a stock engine too!!
I have a 351W in my '82 GT and that just slid right in. You need a special oil pan but other than that it was easy. I didn't have to worry about fron springs because it was an original 5.0 to begin with.
I can probably answer any question you have about doing a Windsor swap.
BTW, to tell a Cleveland from a Windsor look where the top radiator hose goes. If it is a 351W it will go the front of the intake and to the engine block if it is a Cleveland.
Also the valve covers are flat across the top with a windso and the clevelands have more of a point almost.
I would go with a 351W they are a lot cheaper to build with more parts available.

vande97 · 03-20-2001, 07:40 PM

go with the 351C i have one also and i love it if you want a motor that wil stand up to anything and have tons of tork you should scoop that motor up quick as possible. i did a swap in an 86 there are a few thing you ae going to have to coustom rigg but it will go. steering bar, headers, springs oil pan are just a few things you are going to have fun with good luck man

DirtKing · 03-20-2001, 08:51 PM

your motor is almost certainly a 400M. this motor is a stroked version of the 351M (NOT windsor) and was found in those ltds and thunderbirds ect....clevelands are cool, especially the 2barrel head versions for the street.

------------------
88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

03-20-2001, 10:09 PM

Yeah, it sounds like you have a 400M (stands for modified Cleveland). Those blocks are taller than regular clevelands because they were designed to have a longer stroke. They have the Cleveland 2 Barrel heads which have stock over 2 inch intake valves and like 1.6? diameter exhaust valves stock. They have a weird lifter side oiling system that was notorious for being inadequate for oiling the top end in race applications (i had a 400M in a '78 F150 and it had tons of torque). Those engines don't like to rev since they're a "square" engine (4 inch bore, 4 inch stroke) but if you built one for up to like 6000 rpm it would rip in your car. People think they're boat anchors because in the 70's they did "quick emissions fixes" like retarding the camshaft (killed power), putting on tiny carburetors and single exhaust. Those engines were decent emissions engines, but when you stoke and engine or reduce it's bore to create better emissions more force is required to move the piston down and it sucks gas (mine got 11mpg no matter how i drove it). That's why most 70's V8 got bigger strokes (cheapest way to reduce emissions - more swirl entering combustion chamber, longer burn time due to faster piston speed (travels down a longer stroke)) That's why chevy came out with a 400 in the 70's and why ford debored the 302 to 255 in the early 80's. Chevy also debored the 305 to make like a 265 or something in the early 80's also but the engines were slugs. Anyways, i always feel defensive about these engines because they aren't all that bad, they just happens to have a $hitty compramised design goal. Another thing you grandpa may have done is taken a 351C and had a 400 crank machined to fit and a stroker kit, but that sounds unlikely given the circumstance. Good luck.

------------------
'84 Mustang 5.0 T5, FMS aluminum radiator & 180* thermostat, 1 5/8 shortys/2.5" duals, '88 GT tail lights and wheels, Holley 4160 4 BBL, smog pump idler, more coming soon

03-18-2001, 03:11 PM	#1
StripedStangLX Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Kintnersville, PA USA Posts: 38	clevelend swap I was wondering if anyone has ever swaped a 351 cleveland into a fox body mustang. My grandfather has a 351 that is strocked out to a 400 and said I can have it. I intend to tweak it pretty good. With the right cam, heads, and carb how much horespower do you think i could get out of it? ------------------ 91 LX: Green/white stripes, cam, roller rockers, underdrive pulleys, K&N, full length headers, high flow H-pipe, Flowmaster mufflers, other little engine mods, and some suspension work

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
302 to 351 swap!	Bluefox91LX	Windsor Power	6	12-06-2002 11:36 PM
Cobra Engine Swap...Ways to improve my 98 GT...	xtrememach1racer	Modular Madness	3	10-31-2002 11:23 AM
351 swap in 88 GT.	Dasykopath	Windsor Power	10	06-07-2001 07:04 PM
Rearend swap	H'YAMULE	Classic Mustangs	0	02-19-2001 09:48 AM
2.3 turbo swap	frankiebonzz	Small Ponies	0	06-01-2000 07:44 PM

03-18-2001, 05:33 PM	#2
84_GT350 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Overland Park, KS, USA Posts: 1,631	A 400 stroker? Sure it's not a 400M? They were pretty similar to Clevelands and I've never seen a stroker kit for a 400ci Cleveland. No matter...it really is a stroker Cleveland, with the right heads/cam/intake setup I'd say the mid 400hp range isn't out of the question. If it's a 400M, ditch it cuz that thing would make a better boat anchor than an engine. They're really dogs. ------------------ 1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

03-18-2001, 06:52 PM	#3
StripedStangLX Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Kintnersville, PA USA Posts: 38	My dad says that he is positive that it is a Cleveland engine. However, he doesn't know if it stroked or a different block or what. Personally, I don't know much about the Cleveland Engines and do not know how to tell if it is or not. I do know that it is out of a 1978 Ford LTD. I am a little optimistical that it is a Cleveland but if it is I'll be glad to take it. ------------------ 91 LX: Green/white stripes, cam, roller rockers, underdrive pulleys, K&N, full length headers, high flow H-pipe, Flowmaster mufflers, other little engine mods, and some suspension work

03-19-2001, 09:50 PM	#4
Myke_y2k Guest Posts: n/a	I asked aboot this a little while ago, since I have a 351C 2 barrel.. I ened up giving up on the idea,,,,its more cost effective to go with a Windsor from the responces I got... ------------------ Mike Sold my 88GT Aug Y2K Just got T-top 86GT 11-18-2000

03-20-2001, 10:51 AM	#5
82 GT Import Slayer Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 2,241	There was a guy on this board that installed a 351C into his '82 GT. His name was something like...medic4118 or something like that. I remember him saying he needed beefier front springs and he had to modify the steering shaft somehow. It sounded like a big pain in the a** to do, but he said it had tons of torque and had major traction problems. That was just a stock engine too!! I have a 351W in my '82 GT and that just slid right in. You need a special oil pan but other than that it was easy. I didn't have to worry about fron springs because it was an original 5.0 to begin with. I can probably answer any question you have about doing a Windsor swap. BTW, to tell a Cleveland from a Windsor look where the top radiator hose goes. If it is a 351W it will go the front of the intake and to the engine block if it is a Cleveland. Also the valve covers are flat across the top with a windso and the clevelands have more of a point almost. I would go with a 351W they are a lot cheaper to build with more parts available.

03-20-2001, 07:40 PM	#6
vande97 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: okemos Posts: 205	go with the 351C i have one also and i love it if you want a motor that wil stand up to anything and have tons of tork you should scoop that motor up quick as possible. i did a swap in an 86 there are a few thing you ae going to have to coustom rigg but it will go. steering bar, headers, springs oil pan are just a few things you are going to have fun with good luck man

03-20-2001, 08:51 PM	#7
DirtKing Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: brooklyn center,mn,USA Posts: 169	your motor is almost certainly a 400M. this motor is a stroked version of the 351M (NOT windsor) and was found in those ltds and thunderbirds ect....clevelands are cool, especially the 2barrel head versions for the street. ------------------ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

03-20-2001, 10:09 PM	#8
84stang83zephyr Guest Posts: n/a	Yeah, it sounds like you have a 400M (stands for modified Cleveland). Those blocks are taller than regular clevelands because they were designed to have a longer stroke. They have the Cleveland 2 Barrel heads which have stock over 2 inch intake valves and like 1.6? diameter exhaust valves stock. They have a weird lifter side oiling system that was notorious for being inadequate for oiling the top end in race applications (i had a 400M in a '78 F150 and it had tons of torque). Those engines don't like to rev since they're a "square" engine (4 inch bore, 4 inch stroke) but if you built one for up to like 6000 rpm it would rip in your car. People think they're boat anchors because in the 70's they did "quick emissions fixes" like retarding the camshaft (killed power), putting on tiny carburetors and single exhaust. Those engines were decent emissions engines, but when you stoke and engine or reduce it's bore to create better emissions more force is required to move the piston down and it sucks gas (mine got 11mpg no matter how i drove it). That's why most 70's V8 got bigger strokes (cheapest way to reduce emissions - more swirl entering combustion chamber, longer burn time due to faster piston speed (travels down a longer stroke)) That's why chevy came out with a 400 in the 70's and why ford debored the 302 to 255 in the early 80's. Chevy also debored the 305 to make like a 265 or something in the early 80's also but the engines were slugs. Anyways, i always feel defensive about these engines because they aren't all that bad, they just happens to have a $hitty compramised design goal. Another thing you grandpa may have done is taken a 351C and had a 400 crank machined to fit and a stroker kit, but that sounds unlikely given the circumstance. Good luck. ------------------ '84 Mustang 5.0 T5, FMS aluminum radiator & 180* thermostat, 1 5/8 shortys/2.5" duals, '88 GT tail lights and wheels, Holley 4160 4 BBL, smog pump idler, more coming soon