Pro-M or C&L??

jruppert · 10-13-2002, 06:51 PM

I have a '94 GT and have a Pro-M for a MAF. Recently my sensor has gone bad (at least I think it has). I sent it back to Pro-M because I was getting a code for lower then min. voltage. Anyway, they say that if its their fault then they will take care of it. If its my fault then I pay. I have this feeling that it will be upwards around $150 if I have to take care of it. What I have is the 77mm and its calib. for 24lb injectors. Back when I bought this I didnt realize the simplicity of the C&L as far as using the sample tube for the diff size injectors. If its upwards around $150 I am thinking maybe I should hold out and go the C&L because I think those run $190 or so. What do u guys think??

jimberg · 10-13-2002, 07:18 PM

The problem with the C&L is that you don't get new electronics. You have to have a working stock unit so that you can transfer the electronics. It's kind of a pain in the butt.

Bad89stang · 10-13-2002, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimberg
The problem with the C&L is that you don't get new electronics. You have to have a working stock unit so that you can transfer the electronics. It's kind of a pain in the butt.

Yea, transferring electronics takes about 45 seconds.

What am I missing here? The C&L meters are awesome... no calibration problems, no B.S.

I paid $58 for mine off of Ebay and it works perfectly. It always will because there is nothing to go bad. Why not switch if you have the $$$.

2FastLX · 10-13-2002, 08:05 PM

I agree with Jim. He's not saying it's a pain to transfer the electronics. He's saying it's a pain if you don't have the stock electronics. Try buying the sensor for the mass air and see what you come up with. Best I found was buying the complete meter from Auto Zone, but I can't remember how much they were.

As far as which one would I buy? Definately C&L. I currently have the 76mm and love it. It's a well made product, and personally I would rather have this nice machined piece of aluminum than a plastic bullet from Pro-M. And swapping injectors sizes will only cost $35 versus $150 to Pro-M, who I would imagine just swaps your electronics for one they pulled from someone else's meter after charging them $150 to put your electronics on theirs. Plus, I get to keep my old sampling tube in case these injectors don't work out and I want to swap back. With Pro-M there goes another $150. No thanks.

89 ATI · 10-13-2002, 08:51 PM

Here is another vote for the C&L. I have the 76 mm also and love it. I like the tube that comes with it to replace the old flexible stock rubber piece.

avbcon12 · 10-13-2002, 09:30 PM

please go with the quality pro-m has. i have had nothing but problems with C&L for years.... pro-m's are calibrated for YOUR intake setup, they are not made to just fool the computer with sample tubes.... nothing but headaches and surging idle....

i know they are more expensive but they are well worth it... great customer service too (i live close to them and have had them calibrate my meter to tune it to my intake many times with no hassles).

take care,
adam

jimberg · 10-13-2002, 10:21 PM

Thanks for clarifying what I was saying, 2FastLX. I suppose I should have mentioned that I am currently using a C&L 76mm with the aluminum air pipe. I didn't have my stock electronics when I bought it and had to hit a used parts dealer for a MAF sensor. Hopefully it will work. If not, I'm gonna have to buy a new, stock replacement and pay a fortune for it. The cost will be more than a Pro-M which does include the electronics.

BTW, I finally got my engine back in and everything back together but then toasted my ECM. $248 for a new one from Ford. Ouch. All the parts places had them on back order and no idea about how long to get one.

jruppert was saying that his MAF has gone bad. It's a Pro-M so you can't really transfer the electronics to a C&L. Hopefully he has a working stock sensor. Some people, however, use the opportunity of a bad MAF sensor to upgrade to something better. If it's your stock sensor that went bad, you are pretty much out of luck if you upgrade to a C&L. I sent an e-mail to the company, BTW, and never received an answer about this dilemma. They really should have electronics available for those who don't have the stock meter.

I have no problem with the quality of the part yet, but there does seem to be some holes in the way you upgrade.

I have a Pro-M 75mm calibrated for 24#ers if you're interested, jruppert.

2FastLX · 10-14-2002, 01:15 AM

avbcon12 - C&L meters work exactly like the OEM meters do. What is wrong with that? I'd say if you had a C&L that didn't work for you either your stock electronics are at fault, or it's something else. Since these meters work in their own unique ways other problems in your tune may effect each differently creating problems for one meter and not the other. It's not necessarily the meter that is at fault. We chased problems on my car for a long time thinking it was the meter. I even got codes saying the MAS was bad. I had a surging idle, and the engine sputtered between 1000-1500 RPM. It turned out I had a number of problems, including bad O2 sensors, and a vacuum leak.

avbcon12 · 10-14-2002, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2FastLX
avbcon12 - C&L meters work exactly like the OEM meters do. What is wrong with that? I'd say if you had a C&L that didn't work for you either your stock electronics are at fault, or it's something else. Since these meters work in their own unique ways other problems in your tune may effect each differently creating problems for one meter and not the other. It's not necessarily the meter that is at fault. We chased problems on my car for a long time thinking it was the meter. I even got codes saying the MAS was bad. I had a surging idle, and the engine sputtered between 1000-1500 RPM. It turned out I had a number of problems, including bad O2 sensors, and a vacuum leak.

thank you but i do know it was the C&L meter... i tried not one but to C&\l meters and brand new electronics...... i also at the same time had my car tuned profesionally and it still had the same problem. i switched to a pro-m meter that was tested and tuned ON my car for the style of intake i was using and with tweeking my car ran perfectly. i cant thank the guys at pro-m enough for that....

take care,
adam

drudis · 10-14-2002, 02:00 PM

Get a Lincoln Mark VIII 80mm MAF, and have them recalibrate it for ANY size injector for like $125.
I had it done for the S-trim 30#, and then 3 years later for 42#.

Flow specs:
http://www.dariusrudis.com/mustang/stuff/pro-m_42.jpg

LX XLR8R · 10-14-2002, 02:10 PM

with my pro-m 77 i never had a problem..from what i have heard all the vortech/cl 75mm poeple said were junk but the new 76mm c/l is soposed to be a nicer unit

Superpromustang · 10-14-2002, 03:20 PM

I am using the 75mm pro-m, since 1997, and i haven't had a bit of trouble with it, I don't know anything about the c&l's, because I've never had one, but my pro-m works just fine

jruppert · 10-14-2002, 03:50 PM

Thanks for the feedback. I sent the Pro-M back and they will check it out. If its their fault, they will take care of it. If thats the case then I wont worry about it. If they say I need to pay then I will just have them send it back to me and I will go with the C&L. Another thing, does the C&L fit inside the stock container that holds the mass air, filter, etc? Or does it sit alone on the end of the intake tube. I have a '94 remember, and the stock meter is inside the black plastic housing.

10-13-2002, 06:51 PM	#1
jruppert Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Reed City Mi Posts: 106	Pro-M or C&L?? I have a '94 GT and have a Pro-M for a MAF. Recently my sensor has gone bad (at least I think it has). I sent it back to Pro-M because I was getting a code for lower then min. voltage. Anyway, they say that if its their fault then they will take care of it. If its my fault then I pay. I have this feeling that it will be upwards around $150 if I have to take care of it. What I have is the 77mm and its calib. for 24lb injectors. Back when I bought this I didnt realize the simplicity of the C&L as far as using the sample tube for the diff size injectors. If its upwards around $150 I am thinking maybe I should hold out and go the C&L because I think those run $190 or so. What do u guys think??

10-13-2002, 07:18 PM	#2
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	The problem with the C&L is that you don't get new electronics. You have to have a working stock unit so that you can transfer the electronics. It's kind of a pain in the butt. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

10-13-2002, 08:05 PM	#4
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	I agree with Jim. He's not saying it's a pain to transfer the electronics. He's saying it's a pain if you don't have the stock electronics. Try buying the sensor for the mass air and see what you come up with. Best I found was buying the complete meter from Auto Zone, but I can't remember how much they were. As far as which one would I buy? Definately C&L. I currently have the 76mm and love it. It's a well made product, and personally I would rather have this nice machined piece of aluminum than a plastic bullet from Pro-M. And swapping injectors sizes will only cost $35 versus $150 to Pro-M, who I would imagine just swaps your electronics for one they pulled from someone else's meter after charging them $150 to put your electronics on theirs. Plus, I get to keep my old sampling tube in case these injectors don't work out and I want to swap back. With Pro-M there goes another $150. No thanks. __________________ Project: 1988 Coupe - EFI 5.8L Twin Turbo with Victor intake, Canfield heads, F303 cam, March aluminum underdrive pulleys, TKO (or T56 if funds permit), PBR twin piston calipers and 13" rotors up front, 94 Cobra rear calipers and 12" rotors on the rear, 3.73's, Griggs K-member, tubular front control arms, torque arm and panhard bar, polished 99 Cobra wheels. "The GR-40 kit installation is now complete, and the humble Fox-chassis car will now out-corner and out-stop a ZR-1 or a Viper, and support massive horsepower additions with perfect balance." Griggs Racing ICQ# 42269241

10-13-2002, 08:51 PM	#5
89 ATI Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Lafayette, Indiana Posts: 120	Here is another vote for the C&L. I have the 76 mm also and love it. I like the tube that comes with it to replace the old flexible stock rubber piece. __________________ 89 GT convertible, Kenny Brown level 5, Edelbrock performer, AFR 165's, Comp cams XE270HR, C&L 76, 24# inj, Crane 1.7's, 70mm BBK throttle body 298.2 hp 328.2 tq Mustang dyno "Our lady of blessed acceleration don't fail me now" Elwood Blues

10-13-2002, 09:30 PM	#6
avbcon12 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 391	please go with the quality pro-m has. i have had nothing but problems with C&L for years.... pro-m's are calibrated for YOUR intake setup, they are not made to just fool the computer with sample tubes.... nothing but headaches and surging idle.... i know they are more expensive but they are well worth it... great customer service too (i live close to them and have had them calibrate my meter to tune it to my intake many times with no hassles). take care, adam __________________ 90 GT black/ grey leather ported GT-40 heads w/ 1.7RR, Cobra intake w/ ported lower, 24# injectors, 190LPH pump, 75mm Pro-M MAF, 65mm TB, K&N panel, BBK long tubes, Off road H-pipe, 2 ch. Flowmaster, Black magic fan, Kirban FPR, 180 deg. T-stat, 3.73's, Steeda Tri-Ax, 130 amp alt. Accell 8.8 race wires/cap/rotor, motorcraft plugs, Factory Five suspension, etc etc etc.... http://avbcon12.stangnet.com

10-13-2002, 10:21 PM	#7
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	Thanks for clarifying what I was saying, 2FastLX. I suppose I should have mentioned that I am currently using a C&L 76mm with the aluminum air pipe. I didn't have my stock electronics when I bought it and had to hit a used parts dealer for a MAF sensor. Hopefully it will work. If not, I'm gonna have to buy a new, stock replacement and pay a fortune for it. The cost will be more than a Pro-M which does include the electronics. BTW, I finally got my engine back in and everything back together but then toasted my ECM. $248 for a new one from Ford. Ouch. All the parts places had them on back order and no idea about how long to get one. jruppert was saying that his MAF has gone bad. It's a Pro-M so you can't really transfer the electronics to a C&L. Hopefully he has a working stock sensor. Some people, however, use the opportunity of a bad MAF sensor to upgrade to something better. If it's your stock sensor that went bad, you are pretty much out of luck if you upgrade to a C&L. I sent an e-mail to the company, BTW, and never received an answer about this dilemma. They really should have electronics available for those who don't have the stock meter. I have no problem with the quality of the part yet, but there does seem to be some holes in the way you upgrade. I have a Pro-M 75mm calibrated for 24#ers if you're interested, jruppert. __________________ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

10-14-2002, 01:15 AM	#8
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	avbcon12 - C&L meters work exactly like the OEM meters do. What is wrong with that? I'd say if you had a C&L that didn't work for you either your stock electronics are at fault, or it's something else. Since these meters work in their own unique ways other problems in your tune may effect each differently creating problems for one meter and not the other. It's not necessarily the meter that is at fault. We chased problems on my car for a long time thinking it was the meter. I even got codes saying the MAS was bad. I had a surging idle, and the engine sputtered between 1000-1500 RPM. It turned out I had a number of problems, including bad O2 sensors, and a vacuum leak. __________________ Project: 1988 Coupe - EFI 5.8L Twin Turbo with Victor intake, Canfield heads, F303 cam, March aluminum underdrive pulleys, TKO (or T56 if funds permit), PBR twin piston calipers and 13" rotors up front, 94 Cobra rear calipers and 12" rotors on the rear, 3.73's, Griggs K-member, tubular front control arms, torque arm and panhard bar, polished 99 Cobra wheels. "The GR-40 kit installation is now complete, and the humble Fox-chassis car will now out-corner and out-stop a ZR-1 or a Viper, and support massive horsepower additions with perfect balance." Griggs Racing ICQ# 42269241

10-14-2002, 02:00 PM	#10
drudis Moderator Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Livonia, MI, USA Posts: 1,194	Get a Lincoln Mark VIII 80mm MAF, and have them recalibrate it for ANY size injector for like $125. I had it done for the S-trim 30#, and then 3 years later for 42#. Flow specs: http://www.dariusrudis.com/mustang/stuff/pro-m_42.jpg __________________ Darius Rudis, Moderator Corner Carvers Delight 1989 Mustang LX - Open Track Car http://www.dariusrudis.com

10-14-2002, 02:10 PM	#11
LX XLR8R Dirk Diggler Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: SLOATSBURG, NY Posts: 1,931	with my pro-m 77 i never had a problem..from what i have heard all the vortech/cl 75mm poeple said were junk but the new 76mm c/l is soposed to be a nicer unit __________________ 95 undecided cubes, AFR 185s,undecided cam, undecided intake, and a 150 hit 89 "turbonotch" 2.3T You might want to hold on..i saw this on a cartoon once

10-14-2002, 03:20 PM	#12
Superpromustang Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Carthage, MO Posts: 59	I am using the 75mm pro-m, since 1997, and i haven't had a bit of trouble with it, I don't know anything about the c&l's, because I've never had one, but my pro-m works just fine

10-14-2002, 03:50 PM	#13
jruppert Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Reed City Mi Posts: 106	Thanks for the feedback. I sent the Pro-M back and they will check it out. If its their fault, they will take care of it. If thats the case then I wont worry about it. If they say I need to pay then I will just have them send it back to me and I will go with the C&L. Another thing, does the C&L fit inside the stock container that holds the mass air, filter, etc? Or does it sit alone on the end of the intake tube. I have a '94 remember, and the stock meter is inside the black plastic housing.

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