Depressing Dyno...
 

255 hp? Pretty weak for my combo...and I developed a noticeable ignition miss at high RPM which is rather evident.
Going outside now to figure out what went wrong. By the way, 38 PSI was too lean. 42 PSI was perfect.

Comments good and bad are welcome.

something is seriously wrong here.

What was your timing set at?

Can you post your torque curve with it too?

Your hp seems to start to drop off at a farily low rpm, I'd expect to see it peak at a feww hundred RPM higher.

The red line'd run was awful lean. Did you take fuel pressure out of it too see if it would run any better or something?

Those #'s do seem low.....Thats about 295 FWHP

I figured you would make about 320 FWHP and about 280RWHP.

:confused: What kind of dyno was it.

Later,

poor dyno....
 

It was a Dyno jet.
Yeah ,I'm pretty flabergasted (and I don't use that word often) I really thought I was making more.
Timing at 18* (verified)
Run 1 was at 38PSI
Run 2 was at 42PSI
Only 300 miles on the motor...perplexed for sure.
Any advice appreciated...
by the way, it IS primarily a import car dyno and my car was backed into it. I know my wheels were going the opposite way that the front-wheel cars are. I don't know if it makes a difference. It was my first trip.

Have you checked compression?

If I were you, I wouldnt have gone to a dyno and pushed it that hard with only 300 miles on a new motor.

Could be your rings havent set yet and you arent getting full compression. But then again, I'm not internal engine expert (or any kind of expert for that matter) so I think this is a job for supermechanic (PKRWUD)

3000 miles...
 

New motor has 3k miles on it, not 300, sorry

What was his correction factor I have seen some shop use a corrction factor that makes it read high so the customers are happy or read low so they can sell you more goodies.

The only thing that I can think of holding you back is your cam. I would have gone any gotten a custom cam. They are tailored to your car, not everybodies. Besides that, you have a very good set up. Have you ported your lower intake, or thought about it. It is worth trying. Well, I hope you solve your problem. Good luck.

-Billy

What's poppin kids?

Seriously though...

While you guys are looking at dyno sheets, see if you can figure out whats wrong with mine, if you like...

I'm glad I'm not the only one disappointed with the dyno.

I like that fact that the correction factor was brought up...
never took that into consideration. I mentioned in the 7000rpm lifter post about dyno operator tactics. Not reving past 6500, telling me what I need/should buy, etc.

I'm not pissed, I find it amusing ( a little anyhow )

So check out the attachment and supply me with some good old fashioned constructive criticism...

Thanks and good luck...
My updated combo is at http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?2260

And I still cant get that link to work in my signature for some reason??? You'll probably agree that I've spent alot of dough for how fast I go... (hey, that rhymes)

Here's the attachment....

Nice curve...
 

Now that curve is more like it.
I guess I will look into a custom cam, would like some more input though since TFS heads have issues with fly-cutting with a big cam.

Don't do that, Holley is the only way to go if you want max hp. :)

Thanks, I was expecting more (what else is new):rolleyes:

I would call Comp Cams and explain your scenario
I ran one of their cams in my previous setup and was very pleased with it... (I decided on an Ultradyne this time around for some reason)

I don't know what springs you run, but mention that to them also. You might need a matching set of springs for the cam.

Did you notice where the PMS kicks in to stand alone mode?
4000rpms... It isn't noticable with my foot to the floor, but letting the rpms come up at half throttle it bucks for a sec at 4k (not impressed with that particular feature)

Later...

You don't need a new cam. I have a very similar combo that made 309 on a Dynojet @ 5800 rpm. I think you have something else wrong. Has your car been to the track? If so, What are it's trap speeds?

Falling off at 5 grand could mean a whacked out air/fuel ratio, mis adjusted valves, bad valve springs, improperly installed cam, just to name a few.

Ultraflow, did you run that time in your sig on the hose or N/A? I glanced over your set-up and I think 36 pound injectors are WAY too big for a 302. Even if it is a healthy one like yours.

damn man, you seem to be pushing that holley pretty hard. Are you a dealer or somethin? :D just noticed you "swinging from it's balls" in a few other threads (havent used that term in awhile)

Its a very good intake, but dyno and flow tests have shown its not necessarily the best. The performer RPM is a very good intake too. Also, the GT40 is a very good N/A intake, but like you've said, the holley would make more power.

I believe he should be making atleast 285-290hp to the wheels with the combo he has, then a decent amount more with the Holley, or a few other ones

ULTRAFLO
 

You need more CAM. Seriously, The way it drops in the beginning, and also how it falls after 5500. At 7250 rpm, im still at 400 RWHP, just a small fall from peak at 6500 and I hold my HP steady into redline.( which is set at MSD 6al @ 7200 ) If I was dead set on hyd rollers, Id run a Lunati 51018, that was my last cam, still have it too, and it was a seriously nice/strong street cam.

exgmguy is right. Something is wrong with your combo, you should be making peak power closer to 5500-5600 RPM. I had a similar problem at the dyno and after a lot of $ and time we figured out the idiots that put the motor together had the cam in wrong. It was off by a tooth. After reinstalling the cam it was worth 40hp.:eek:

I hate to say this but your problem looks scarily close to mine. I was making peak power at 4900 RPM before I fixed the cam.

Ripping the cam out...
 

Cam is coming out tomorrow. A moderate breakdown of the heads too for a valve check. I'll let everybody know.

I promise you, I'll have 340 NA RWHP horsepower by July.

I'll let everybody know what's up with the cam ,etc and post the dyno results. Should be ready late next week.

Hozer
sometimes I want to push it into a rock quarry.
good thing I live in Florida and there just aren't that many quarries around.

That's alot of hp for a N/A 306. :cool:

yes it is...
 

Yeah, but I am basically possesed and will have the dyno sheet to prove it by July.
I may be living in my garage by then, but my car will be fast!

well, one thing... all dyno's arent the same... I've run the car on one dyno, made changes that picked up over 2mph in the 1/4.. gone to another dyno and put down 12HP less after the changes...
here's my last run with my car.. AFR heads, stock cam, 1.7's, BBK headers performer intake and a 600 holley... all the emissiosn stuff is on the car... run 102.5 in a 3400 lbs. car 90+ air temps ;-)
actually, I can the same MPH when it was 106* out ;-)

You are right
 

You are right about dyno's not being the same, but I know my cam is not carrying me to RPM. Anyway, I'll post so others can learn from my pain. Can something really be so painful and fun at the same time?

I remember having a low peak power problem. It turned out to be badly worn valve guides in my TFS heads. After the guide fix peak power went from 4900 RPM to I think 5200-5300.

Then I switched to the Holley and peaked at 5800 rpm, and layed down 20 more ponies to the wheels over the GT-40 with the ported lower (to a 1262) Like 1BAD89 said, I picked up a consistent 2 mph on motor and 3 on the spray.

Valve guides...
 

Will check the entire valvetrain to be sure. What mileage did you have after you discovered your bad guides? But I suspect right now that the cam is my major issue.

Looking at that graph, its very jittery up top. You said it your self that the engine has a miss. Now, you have to do some checking/testing to see what is causing the miss. What ever is causing the miss is causing you to lose power. I'm no expert, but i've been in your shoes and it sux. It sux when u have all those fancy parts and somethings wrong causing u not to get the most from your combo. Are u getting good spark? Fuel? Do u have a fp gauge that u can see at all times, preferably a cowl mounted mechanical one? This way u could see if fp is dropping.

I had a problem with my combo. I went to the dyno and only made 275rwhp/316ft/lbs and I was like WTF, My combo should be making more. Just recently I found out that all along my fuel filter was on BACKWARDS!! This was causing my bad dyno #'s and track times all along. I havent re dynoed, but I did gain a full 3-4 mph at the track which is a big difference for just a filter. My graph wasnt jittery like yours, but I did only make pk power @ 5100, which is low. It fixed now, just needs some tuning.

I agree with some of the other guys, that B303 cam isnt great, but its not the reason for your bad #'s. You have a miss and you have to find out whats causing that miss. Good luck man, I know how it feels!! I'm glad that it only cost me $10 to fix my combo, I hope its just as easy for you!

Mike

Umm... hate to point this out guys, but he's running 1.7:1 roller rockers on that B303.

.510/.510 and 224*/224* duration is more than enough cam to make plenty of top end power. There is nothing wrong with the cam. If I'm correct, the GT-40P crate engine is rated at 320hp with a B303.

You're about 30-40hp short of where you should be. 255rwhp = about 310 at the crank. You should make around 340-350 at the crank with your combo, which would be around 280-290rwhp. If you bumped the CR, switched to a 76mm MAF, a 70mm T/B, and got a different intake, you might be able to see your 340rwhp, but that's about 410 at the crank. 410hp N/A with an EFI 306 is a pretty tall call, but with 10.5:1 you might be able to pull it off.

With TFS TW heads, the last intake test I heard about had the Holley absolutely trouncing the other intakes. I would certainly recommend it for max power on your combo.

Was the Dynojet equipped with a load bearing device? If not, forget about the correction factors. They aren't whats messing with you. In fact, the dyno may not have any adjustable correction factors depending on the model.

You know you have a misfire, and obviously that's top order. Hey, exgmguy, weren't your heads older model TFS's before the change over?

TFI woes...
 

After several diagnostic evals today at the shop, best guess is a bad TFI module. I have now idea how to test it, but I am looking for a replacement for my Mallory unit. I have read several TSB's about heat and heat-sink related failures, some recommending changes as frequently as every 30000 miles.
Oh yeah, my new NAPA fan clutch (2000 miles old) is frozen, there's 15 hp right there. Just noticed it today, free revving the motor. How's that?
Now I need good recommendations for an electric fan. Thinking Flex-a-lite...

Re: TFI woes...
 

Good idea, I really felt every bit of 10-15 hp off an electric fan, I was pleased....btw my friend has a carb setup tf head, bcam 347, it makes about 375 at the wheels, but with 10:51 compression, and port worked heads, pulls to 6500 no problem, you engine just needs some test, it's all about hotrodding:)

TFI test...
 

Got a replacement Mallory TFI today. Will be installed in an hour or so, then a test run. Electric Fan tomorrow. Dyno run Tuesday.

Let us know how everything turns out, hope it solves it. :)

Your cams fine. Your motor combos fine.

Look at your dyno graph, ITS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

FIND out whats causing the miss, theres your problem.


I see 285rwhp after that.

Skyler

TFI module...
 

Just put it in, TFI that is, car warming up now. Lot's of heat-sink compound and dielectric grease. ...Stand by!

I run an electric fan from autozone with no cooling problems whatsoever. Just ask for the biggest size they have, I think its something like 21". also be sure to get a quality toggle switch for it because the one that comes with the fan is junk.

Oh yah, this fan is only like $65-70 compared to close to $200 for a black magic fan.

just throwin some info out there.

good luck with it
-Drew

TFI didn't fix...
 

4800-ish "lean" type miss is still there. Tried new TFI and that means everything electrical has been replaced. Double checked plugs, wires and timing. No luck. 10-14* timing and 38-42 PSI no joy.
I am planning on pulling the intake and injectors next.
After that, the cam will come out if that's not it.