Cooling and Charging issues solved(Damn underdrive pullies)

Rick 91GT · 08-02-2002, 05:26 AM

Well I fighting the car running hot (205-210) cruising through town and at low rpm. I have a awesome Ron Davis Racing Alum rad, it flows great, high flow 180 thermo, a high flow Stewart Water pump, and a 16" Perma Cool fan.

I called and was speaking to the tech guy at Stewart and the first thing he asked me was " Are you running stock pullies or underdrives and is your crank pulley larger then the water pump?"

I replied Underdrives..he said that's your problem, the crank pulley needs to be 10-35% larger then the waterpump to spin the waterpump hard enough, if not you are not getting the most out of the pump. SO I swapped a set of stock pullies back on, I had a hard time getting the car to run 180 degrees, with the fan off. If I turned the fan on it ran around 165-170 degrees no matter how hard I ran it.

As far as my charging issues, my stock 65amp alt was bad. I upgraded to a 140amp and man what a difference, car pulls 80amps at idle! and 125amps at 3000 rpm. What a difference, no more drop at stops even with the elec fan on. I should have upgraded a loooong time ago:doh:

silver_pilate · 08-02-2002, 09:51 AM

Yep. I had similar problems except with my near stock radiator, I was overheating while going down the highway on particularly hot and dry days. I ended up putting in some water wetter and putting back on the stock water pump pulley and it helped out. It still gets warm around town, however. In the future I'll likely change back to the stock crank and alternator pulley as well.

Underdrives make a little bit of cheap power, but for a modded car, the heat produced is too much for them.

--nathan

magicmerll · 08-02-2002, 10:25 AM

Sounds like the problem is solved! I just think it's too bad that you had to give back 5-10 HP to keep the car cool. That's like taking a step back. I would have junked the water pump and put a factory Ford pump back on. I have never, ever had a cooling problem on either of the two Mustangs I have owned. I run BBK aluminum underdrive pulleys, and the car cools fine- even with the ice-cold air on!

My last car was a daily-driven, 12-second '87 GT with air conditioning and a 16" electric cooling fan. The car had 160,000 miles and cooled fine! You must keep the radiator fins clean and straight, and you have to use a good radiator cap along with a factory Ford water pump.

Rick 91GT · 08-02-2002, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by magicmerll
Sounds like the problem is solved! I just think it's too bad that you had to give back 5-10 HP to keep the car cool. That's like taking a step back. I would have junked the water pump and put a factory Ford pump back on. I have never, ever had a cooling problem on either of the two Mustangs I have owned. I run BBK aluminum underdrive pulleys, and the car cools fine- even with the ice-cold air on!

My last car was a daily-driven, 12-second '87 GT with air conditioning and a 16" electric cooling fan. The car had 160,000 miles and cooled fine! You must keep the radiator fins clean and straight, and you have to use a good radiator cap along with a factory Ford water pump.

I actually don't think I lost a lot of power, the Stewart pump only robs 2.5 HP instead of 5 HP like a stock pump and since all I have is a alt I don't really have any drag issues. I have noticed no difference at all. I'll data log a run and see what the HP calc says...the difference in temp alone is worth it.

HORSEMEN RACING · 08-02-2002, 11:41 AM

I had the problem with mine also,I switched all the pulley's back to original except the crank pulley and bingo!!!!! everything went back to normal,I think the only pulley that really helps is the crank pulley.

Oldschoolpony · 08-03-2002, 10:52 PM

Im going with either the mezier pump or the csi electric pump. Any idea which is more effective? or is it 6 of one and one half dozen of the other?

ultraflo · 08-03-2002, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oldschoolpony
Im going with either the mezier pump or the csi electric pump. Any idea which is more effective? or is it 6 of one and one half dozen of the other?

Electric water pumps rock! I run a Meziere and love it!

At the drag strip you have TOTAL controll of cool down w/ an elec. fan and elec. water pump... highly recommened. I also would recommend the washers that replace the thermostat if you're going to run an elec. water pump (drilling holes in the stock stat works too). I run the biggest washer in the Moroso kit... head for the staging lanes at 140, start my burnout around 160, stage @ 180, blast off!, cross the 1/4 @ 195-210, kill the mill, leave the pump going and kick-on the fan, pull a plug or two depending on how the run went, cool down to 160 and head for the pits, once there, I cool down to 140 in a matter of a couple minutes and start over...

Oldschoolpony · 08-04-2002, 01:31 AM

Ultra, sounds like we'll be running similar times. Ive got 431 rwhp when i had the stick now im in a c-4. But to make up for the auto Im going to a manual rack, and electeric pump. Already have the underdrive pulleys. Also changing to adjustable uppers and hemispherical bushings and turning down the rear to around 7 deg.(pinion angle)my best run with 27x 11.5 hoosier quick time pros and no NOS was 12.2 at just about 118 with a 2.3 60 ft time.(wc t-5)

ultraflo · 08-04-2002, 01:06 PM

Concerning the elec. water pump... March makes a nice bracket setup that makes life easy, if you still have the stock timing cover.

I was going to get the kit, but I got goofy and bought a belt drive... which the kit does not work with, go figure.

SO, I had to spend one whole day fabbing an alternator bracket that would work with my setup... then had to call March to order some spacers and the adj. link that attaches to the bottom side of the alt., cut the spacers to length, etc. etc. ...here's the end result of that project.

It turned out better than I thought it would... made a template out of cardboard, traced it onto a piece of 1/8" plate aluminum... got the tiger saw out and cut a rough pattern, used a sanding wheel shape the edges, and used a hole saw for, well, the holes

And bolted up the polishing wheel to the bench grinder and put the final touch on it, viola!

My best time on the motor with et streets, a tremec and the other stuff my car was dynoed with (see user's ride link)... resulted in a tire spinning 12.10 @ 112

Best pass on the motor w/ new setup (again, see link) and no nitrous is 11.64 @ 117 ...still working on getting the 200 shot dialed in and should see some low 10.30's high 10.20's if I can keep the motor together long enough

Let us know how you do with spray.... and good luck.

Oldschoolpony · 08-04-2002, 04:15 PM

Really nice set up. I especially like the jessel belt..... Thats comming in winter along with the afr 205's. Cloys true roller for now.

ultraflo · 08-04-2002, 04:33 PM

Thank you sir... I woulda bought the Jessel unit had it been available when I got mine, it's a Danny Bee... wouldn't you know that Jessel finally releases one a couple months after I get mine

...oh well.

When you get your pump... are you gonna get the March bracket kit too?

I gave 'em hell for not having a prefabbed kit for belt drives and elec water pumps for lazy people like me when I was ordering the adj. link, allen bolts, and spacers... they didn't seem too concerned. I appreciate them helping me out with the misc parts though... and I did have some fun making that bracket

Take care,

Oldschoolpony · 08-05-2002, 03:35 AM

yes, March # 30065.big order on Monday. J.W wheel(flex plate), march kit, elec. water pump. Toggle kit. Hurts q stick knob with button ect. Money money money,,,,,,,,,,,,,

ultraflo · 08-05-2002, 01:49 PM

...I hear ya! It's a necessary evil, IMHO.

Which pump did you decide on? Are you gonna drill holes in your stat or get a washer/restrictor kit...

I just got a box 'o goodies today... 15lb. NX bottle and a few misc. items (hobbs switch, NHRA blow-off valves, extra bottle nipple and nut) ...and a G-Force SFI jacket to please the tech. guys at the track that were giving me hell last time out. Gee, I can't wait for my credit card bill to show up

Anyhow, have fun! ...let us know how the install goes, and post some pics for all to enjoy

Later

08-02-2002, 05:26 AM	#1
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Cooling and Charging issues solved(Damn underdrive pullies) Well I fighting the car running hot (205-210) cruising through town and at low rpm. I have a awesome Ron Davis Racing Alum rad, it flows great, high flow 180 thermo, a high flow Stewart Water pump, and a 16" Perma Cool fan. I called and was speaking to the tech guy at Stewart and the first thing he asked me was " Are you running stock pullies or underdrives and is your crank pulley larger then the water pump?" I replied Underdrives..he said that's your problem, the crank pulley needs to be 10-35% larger then the waterpump to spin the waterpump hard enough, if not you are not getting the most out of the pump. SO I swapped a set of stock pullies back on, I had a hard time getting the car to run 180 degrees, with the fan off. If I turned the fan on it ran around 165-170 degrees no matter how hard I ran it. As far as my charging issues, my stock 65amp alt was bad. I upgraded to a 140amp and man what a difference, car pulls 80amps at idle! and 125amps at 3000 rpm. What a difference, no more drop at stops even with the elec fan on. I should have upgraded a loooong time ago:doh: __________________ *D/R 10108 NMRA Drag Radial, 25.5 chassis, F1R* *Check out RNH Performance Performance Engines and Custom Fabrication.* *From Mild to Wild we can build what you want, when you want it.* FOR SALE Stainless Steel Torque Box Supports

08-02-2002, 09:51 AM	#2
silver_pilate DURKA DURKA!! Join Date: Sep 1997 Location: Lubbock, TX...(TX panhandle) Posts: 1,418	Yep. I had similar problems except with my near stock radiator, I was overheating while going down the highway on particularly hot and dry days. I ended up putting in some water wetter and putting back on the stock water pump pulley and it helped out. It still gets warm around town, however. In the future I'll likely change back to the stock crank and alternator pulley as well. Underdrives make a little bit of cheap power, but for a modded car, the heat produced is too much for them. --nathan __________________ '91 GT, Coast 347, 9.5:1 compression, full intake, Wolverine 1087 cam, exhaust, Keith Craft ported Windsor Jr. Irons (235 cfm intake, 195 cfm exhaust), AOD, PI 3500 converter, Lentech valve body, 3.73's (4.10's in the works), and Yokohama ES100's out back. Daily Car: '04 Infiniti G35 Sedan 6MT

08-02-2002, 10:25 AM	#3
magicmerll Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 19	Sounds like the problem is solved! I just think it's too bad that you had to give back 5-10 HP to keep the car cool. That's like taking a step back. I would have junked the water pump and put a factory Ford pump back on. I have never, ever had a cooling problem on either of the two Mustangs I have owned. I run BBK aluminum underdrive pulleys, and the car cools fine- even with the ice-cold air on! My last car was a daily-driven, 12-second '87 GT with air conditioning and a 16" electric cooling fan. The car had 160,000 miles and cooled fine! You must keep the radiator fins clean and straight, and you have to use a good radiator cap along with a factory Ford water pump. __________________ Ever notice the people that know the best way to raise kids are the people that don't have any?

08-02-2002, 11:41 AM	#5
HORSEMEN RACING Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Camp Pendleton,Cali Posts: 95	Same problem I had the problem with mine also,I switched all the pulley's back to original except the crank pulley and bingo!!!!! everything went back to normal,I think the only pulley that really helps is the crank pulley. __________________ OC "there are 5,000 Army troops sitting on their butts doing nothing,while 2 companies of Marines are securing this island" spoken by a Army General on the Isle of Grenada in 1983

08-03-2002, 10:52 PM	#6
Oldschoolpony Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Gainsville,Fl Posts: 229	Im going with either the mezier pump or the csi electric pump. Any idea which is more effective? or is it 6 of one and one half dozen of the other? __________________ http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1546

08-04-2002, 01:31 AM	#8
Oldschoolpony Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Gainsville,Fl Posts: 229	Ultra, sounds like we'll be running similar times. Ive got 431 rwhp when i had the stick now im in a c-4. But to make up for the auto Im going to a manual rack, and electeric pump. Already have the underdrive pulleys. Also changing to adjustable uppers and hemispherical bushings and turning down the rear to around 7 deg.(pinion angle)my best run with 27x 11.5 hoosier quick time pros and no NOS was 12.2 at just about 118 with a 2.3 60 ft time.(wc t-5) __________________ http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1546

08-04-2002, 01:06 PM	#9
ultraflo NX dealer-man Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Peoria, Illinois Posts: 977	Concerning the elec. water pump... March makes a nice bracket setup that makes life easy, if you still have the stock timing cover. I was going to get the kit, but I got goofy and bought a belt drive... which the kit does not work with, go figure. SO, I had to spend one whole day fabbing an alternator bracket that would work with my setup... then had to call March to order some spacers and the adj. link that attaches to the bottom side of the alt., cut the spacers to length, etc. etc. ...here's the end result of that project. It turned out better than I thought it would... made a template out of cardboard, traced it onto a piece of 1/8" plate aluminum... got the tiger saw out and cut a rough pattern, used a sanding wheel shape the edges, and used a hole saw for, well, the holes And bolted up the polishing wheel to the bench grinder and put the final touch on it, viola! My best time on the motor with et streets, a tremec and the other stuff my car was dynoed with (see user's ride link)... resulted in a tire spinning 12.10 @ 112 Best pass on the motor w/ new setup (again, see link) and no nitrous is 11.64 @ 117 ...still working on getting the 200 shot dialed in and should see some low 10.30's high 10.20's if I can keep the motor together long enough Let us know how you do with spray.... and good luck. __________________ RLS Racing! 93 LX 9.20 @ 147mph 03 Mach 1 12.39 @ 116mph

08-04-2002, 04:15 PM	#10
Oldschoolpony Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Gainsville,Fl Posts: 229	Really nice set up. I especially like the jessel belt..... Thats comming in winter along with the afr 205's. Cloys true roller for now. __________________ http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1546

08-04-2002, 04:33 PM	#11
ultraflo NX dealer-man Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Peoria, Illinois Posts: 977	Thank you sir... I woulda bought the Jessel unit had it been available when I got mine, it's a Danny Bee... wouldn't you know that Jessel finally releases one a couple months after I get mine ...oh well. When you get your pump... are you gonna get the March bracket kit too? I gave 'em hell for not having a prefabbed kit for belt drives and elec water pumps for lazy people like me when I was ordering the adj. link, allen bolts, and spacers... they didn't seem too concerned. I appreciate them helping me out with the misc parts though... and I did have some fun making that bracket Take care, __________________ RLS Racing! 93 LX 9.20 @ 147mph 03 Mach 1 12.39 @ 116mph

08-05-2002, 03:35 AM	#12
Oldschoolpony Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Gainsville,Fl Posts: 229	yes, March # 30065.big order on Monday. J.W wheel(flex plate), march kit, elec. water pump. Toggle kit. Hurts q stick knob with button ect. Money money money,,,,,,,,,,,,, __________________ http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1546

08-05-2002, 01:49 PM	#13
ultraflo NX dealer-man Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Peoria, Illinois Posts: 977	$$$$$$$ ...I hear ya! It's a necessary evil, IMHO. Which pump did you decide on? Are you gonna drill holes in your stat or get a washer/restrictor kit... I just got a box 'o goodies today... 15lb. NX bottle and a few misc. items (hobbs switch, NHRA blow-off valves, extra bottle nipple and nut) ...and a G-Force SFI jacket to please the tech. guys at the track that were giving me hell last time out. Gee, I can't wait for my credit card bill to show up Anyhow, have fun! ...let us know how the install goes, and post some pics for all to enjoy Later __________________ RLS Racing! 93 LX 9.20 @ 147mph 03 Mach 1 12.39 @ 116mph