E-cam vs B-cam?
 

Dilema....
You see that I am putting a SQ blower in at this time.
I have had the B-cam for a year and like it's throaty idle but good driveability characteristics.
I want the lift of the E-cam in order to get 500 hp at the flywheel at 8 PSI, but I want good idle tunability and low speed behavior.
Does anyone have a E-cam or one like it on a daily driver?

specs...

b-cam(in now)
480-480 224-224 107-117

e-cam(thinkin really hard about it)
498-498 220-220 110-110

My latest additional parts include a 77 Pro-M, custom chip(waiting for cam specs), 42# injectors (I don't even want to think about detonation), and a MSD BTM, T-rex in-line.

Like I said this is a daily driver, I just want a 500hp daily driver.
(Doesn't everybody?)

I have had both. The E is in right now. I have speed density and have NO PROBLEMS. I even bring my daughter to school in the mornings before going to work. Sitting in that stop and go traffic does no harm either. I really believe that a custom or "blower" cam would be better than a ford shelf cam. Regaurdless that mass air meter will take care of you with what ever cam you want.

thanks
 

Appreciate the info.
I have every intent to look into a "custom" grind for my app.
Thanks again.

i have the e-cam in my cobra and it works great with the blower but for my coupe i chose a custom grind .525/.536 218/232 and i plan on supercharging it soon i think it's gonna scream.

TFS heads...
 

I like the lift of your cam but I have flattop pistons in my block with tfs heads so I have to watch anything over .535" and 235 duration.
Just checked this months MM&FF and they have a nice supercharged combo at 500 flywheel hp @ 8 PSI with a Crane cam that matches the mild b-cam specs.
Impressive, but I think that with an e-cam(or something with a little less duration and a little more lift) it might eek out 10 or so more hp.
Thanks again...

Hozer, your 88 should have flycut notches in the top of those pistons. As far as I know they are the same as '94-'95 except yours are forged and mine are the hypereutic. I have a e-303 cam with gt-40 p heads. I had to get a custom chip because sometime the idle would surge. After the chip it was fine.

if your heads have 2.02 intake valves i would go with the e-cam i'm sure your pistons have the same valve reliefs as stock but with 2.02 valves you have to be a little more careful still be sure to check your piston to valve clearance better to be safe than sorry.

How did the chip help your idle? I ask beacause my idle surges, and despite all my efforts to find vacuum leaks and replace emissions equipment, it refuses to idle well!

TRW Pistons...
 

I have TRW Flattop Pistons w/o valve reliefs in my rebuilt motor. I also have 1.7 RR's which limits my lift.
I believe the E-cam or something in that range with maybe a slightly different duration will be the one tha works the best.
As for the "chip", I personally consider it the best way to manage an aggressive cam and motor setup and maintain driveability.

Basically what would happen is I would start up the car and it the idle would jump up and down and it would idle uncontrollably. If I were to take off and drive it a block or two then come to a stop then it would idle fine. If I were to shut the car off for a few minutes then start it up it would have a difficult time starting. I would have to take the gas pedal and press it to the floor while rolling it over. It would then start but idle rough again. I called a place called, Auburn Performance and he told me it was because the computer has a difficult time running the cam. He sold me a custom chip and it made some other changes to the computer also. I put the chip in and it started right up and idled fine. Well it did idle a little rough but that was the lope of the cam :D I never had any trouble after that. I would highly recommend getting a chip. I am not talking about a hypertech chip either. I dont know how these work and as far as I know its a generic program. I had to tell these guys everything I had done to my car. They then made the chip of my info.

The AOD doesn't really like the E-303 cam. I have that sucker in right now, and sometimes while changing from drive to reverse it would bog or die. If I give it a tiny bit of gas then there is no problem.

I think it should be fine once I get my T5 in, but for now it is kinda annoying.

Great sounding cam, IMO though.

Thanks,
DoranW

I basically have the problems you guys are describing. Poor vacuum at idle, horrible idle surge, and sometimes it stalls when I put it in reverse. How was your gas mileage before and after you got the chip? (my gas mileage is awful)

why choose the alphabet cams?? Theirs like a million different cam choices out there. Comp makes good cams, as does lunati, and others. B cam doesn't make that great of hp, neither does the E cam. after about 4500 the b and e cams are done with.

i like the e-cam i run it to 6200 in my supercharged cobra and it screams it's still pulling hard when i shift i need to get an rpm extender so i can shift at 6400 it's still pulling like mad when i shift.

Maybe it's not the cam you feel pulling. Superchargers are great up top on the rpm range..so i highly doubt it's the cam. The E cam isn't the greatest high rpm cam out there :rolleyes:

I wasn't saying it was just the cam I was just stating that for my application the e-cam works great in my coupe I have a custom ground cam and I have no doubts it is better than the e-cam but it also cost twice as much the e-cam is a good all around performance cam it gives you more aggressive lift and duration but still retains good idle quality.

I disagree, I think the E cam is a pretty good upper RPM cam. It sucks down low. On my car (N/A!...for now), the power band is from about 2600-5600...

Thanks,
DoranW

That's funny because every mustang that i've ridden in that's had a E or a B cam has fell on it's face after 4500 rpm. And all these cars had intake, heads, full exhaust, big throttle bodies, maf's, etc, low rear end gears. So it won't convince me that it's a good cam cuz it's not.

Hozer Why not go with the stock cam? You'll find out with the S trim that you dont need a big cam to make the power you are looking for. You can make 550 at the wheels with the stocker and still retain driveability, and thats not even intercooled or overspinning the blower either.

I would seriously consider it.

Andy

I have the E cam. My car makes great power. Peaked at a little over 6000 rpm on the dyno. There are better I am sure, but it works fine for me.

woe is me...
 

Yeah, I agree with the potential of even the humble stock cam.
Relatively speaking, cams are fairly inexpensive and everyone just wants the best setup for their combination.
I know the alphabet cams have positives and negatives, but they are pretty decent cams that are designed to cover a fairly large spectrum of combinations.
Are they the best? Of course not, because as long as your wallet is big enough, you can certainly get one matched specifically to your combo.
This has been an informative thread with interesting opinions.
I guess I have to decide soon. My supercharger is here waiting for installation as I write....decisions, decisions...

The E falls off. My shift light is set at 5800. Please don't tell my E that it's pulling to far. I was gonna set it at 6000. I'll wait:)

E-cams or the crane 2040 (same cams) Suck at idle unless you manualy set your idle to 1000. They are great for blowers and emission legal too. Love it and don't want any other unless I go to strip only. My car is a daily driver.

I'll stick with my comp solid roller :)

The b cam would be better than the e-cam for you.

The b cam is not the best for you, but I dont think your going to see the gains your looking for going to the E cam.

The e-cam has a narrow LSA which is not good for a blower car.

Look in the comp. cam catalog and pick out something with a 112-114 LSA, .500 - .535 lift, and 215-224 duration.

later

B & E cams
 

Eric4nitrous-
"That's funny because every mustang that i've ridden in that's had a E or a B cam has fell on it's face after 4500 rpm. And all these cars had intake, heads, full exhaust, big throttle bodies, maf's, etc, low rear end gears."

What Mustangs were you riding in?! Maybe a stock Mustang would have nothing after 4500 rpms, but a 302 with heads, cam, & intake that can't make power above 4500 rpms?? Those must have been some mismatched combos. I run the B-303 with Edelbrock intake & alum. heads with 2.02/1.60 valves. My motor pulls hard up to 6000 rpms no problem. In fact it doesn't even hit it's powerband until 3000-3500 rpms. Different combos work for different people I guess.

The e-cam is made for blowers!!!

Application Series & Grind Number
Fair idle, moderate performance usage, with centrifugal or Roots supercharger, with mass airflow style fuel injection, good mid to upper RPM torque and HP, modified mass airflow, intake, cylinder heads, and headers advised, 2600-3000 cruise RPM, 15 lbs. maximum boost with 8.0 maximum compression ratio advised. (50 state legal 85-93, C.A.R.B. E.O. D-225-46) Basic RPM 2400-6000 PowerMax
2040

Cam Specifications


Degrees Duration @ .050 Int./Exh. Degrees Advertised Duration Int./Exh. Degree Lobe Separation Open/Close @.050" Cam Lift Int./Exh. Lash Hot Int./Exh. Gross Lift Int./Exh.
220
220 282
282 110 0 40
40 0 .000
.000 .498
.498

Valve Train Components

Camshaft 444231
*
Lifters 36530-16 b
36532-16 c b For use with standard Ford alignment bars.
c Vertical locking bar hydraulic roller lifters, no machining required. Can be used to retrofit non-hydraulic roller 302 and 351 engines. Cylinder head removal required for installation in 302 and 302 H.O. applications.
Valve Spring & Retainer Kits 11310-1 e e Must machine cylinder heads with 99402-1 machining tool and 99027-1 arbor.
Valve Springs 99838-16 Must machine cylinder heads with 99402-1 machining tool and 99027-1 arbor.
Retainers 99944-16 *
Valve Stem Seals 99820-16 Must machine cylinder heads with 99402-1 machining tool and 99027-1 arbor.
Valve Stem Locks 99097-1 Machined steel, heat treated.
Pushrods 36624-16 h
36623-16 i h For 302 H.O. engines with non-adjustable pedestal mount rocker arms.
i For 302 H.O. engines with adjustable rocker arms with Pushrod Guideplate Conversion Kit (36655-16). See here for details.
Timing Chain & Gear Assembly 44993-1* j
44975-1* k
44984-1* l j Roller-type timing chain and gears.
k Performance steel billet gears and roller chain set.
l Pro Series steel billet gears and roller chain set.
Energizer Street/Strip Rockers 44746-16 m
11746-16 n m 1.7 ratio, non-adjustable, for pedestal mount cylinder heads, no machining required, includes Rocker Arm Pedestal Shim Kit.
n 1.6 ratio, 3/8” stud, must machine cylinder heads and install 99156-16 rocker arm studs and 36650-1 pushrod guideplates, or use 36655-16 Conversion Kit on pedestal mount cylinder heads for street applications.
Gold Race Rockers 36758-16 m
36750-16 n
36759-16 o m 1.7 ratio, non-adjustable, for pedestal mount cylinder heads, no machining required, includes Rocker Arm Pedestal Shim Kit.
n 1.6 ratio, 3/8” stud, must machine cylinder heads and install 99156-16 rocker arm studs and 36650-1 pushrod guideplates, or use 36655-16 Conversion Kit on pedestal mount cylinder heads for street applications.
o 1.6 ratio, non-adjustable, for pedestal mount cylinder heads, no machining required, includes Rocker Arm Pedestal Shim Kit.

Re: B & E cams
 

Same with me...but mine pulls til about 5800, but I don't have the guts to shift that high with my stock AOD with ~120k miles.

Also, it sounds like you are grouping the E and B cams together, even though they make their power in totally different places. I could see the B-cam dying on its face, because it isn't meant to make power up high.

Thanks,
DoranW

Simi Stang, the cars i rode in had heads, cam, intakes, all the necessities for a mid 12 car. they ran good until they hit around 4500 then after that they fell on their *****. The best motorsport cam out there is the F303. My mom has it in her 95 GT and it pulls up to 6500. Has good low end too. I've never heard any good things about the B and E cams. Most people are dissapointed in them. Boys around here run big cams ;)

F-cam
 

Your Mom runs an F-303 in her stang?! That is awesome! Yeah, mine is not quite a daily driver, but still sees a lot of street driving. Is the F-303 a fairly streetable cam?

does your mom have an rpm extender on her car?

2 or 3 years ago, MM&FF has compared about 8 cams
on a dyno with the same motor. The engine has a common
head/intake combo and has free flowing components. The
B cam was far from the other cam.(+12 HP at the flywheel
over stock if i remember)

On the other hand, the e-cam was very close to big cams
that have 530 and more lift. The average hp was also closer
and more important the average torque was similar.(+16 HP
at the flywheel over stock when the best cam gave +18 HP)

I ve never had idle problem with the e cam since i have
raised the idle speed.

eatsgmcar
 

eatsgmcar-
How did you raise your idle? I saw an aftermarket adjustable idle kit for '86-'93 5.0s on e-bay for like $25. Did you use something like that? Or can I raise it without buying any additional kit? I think my stang may benefit from a slightly higher idle.

Believe everything you read, or do your homework and make your own conclusions. The choice is yours. The e-cam is not a preferred blower cam.

Yes bigblock she does have an rpm extender. But it still pulls hard up to 6500.

I posted that for verification that it is indeed a blower cam. I have done my research and it was the best choice for my application. And I hardly believe the guy who built my engine would allow me to make a big mistake like that. Or better yet you can run me and I'll show ya how well it works as a blower cam.:D

I'll run ya..and show you it ain't a good blower cam :)

my point exactly. Thanks for verifying my suspicions. You posting that doesnt verify crap. The e cam is not a good blower cam, and Eric4nitrous has got my back (thanks bro).

You may think its a good blower cam because your car runs well with it, but what car doesnt run well with a blower?

Whys is it a good blower cam? Back up your smack with some knowledge. Because you read it somewhere? Lol...later...

Sometimes I wish I wouldn't even look at this site. The BS in this thread is so deep I feel obligated to post.

Eric4Nitrous, please give some credit to those posting on this thread that have the cam you're talking about. They may not have $40k to have a builder make an engine for them, but they know what the heck they are talking about, and you sir, have no clue. Take your 6sec car and race it or sell if for all I care. Bottom line is I won't tolerate your bull on this thread. Do a little research and figure out how cams work. You don't even know how a camshaft works, obviously. Even the stock cam will pull to lower 5000rpm ranges when installed in a mildly modified 302. The manufacturer rated power ranges on both the E303 and the B303 extend to 5500rpm+. I don't know where you got your high horse from, but it's time to start letting Mr. Glidden answer your engine tech questions.

Mach 1 You seem overly concerned with LSA's again, but unlike your assistant in misinformation, you at least have a good idea of camshaft basics. As I have pointed out before, LSA's are only one part of camshaft overlap. A snapshot of the E303 looks like this.

.498/.498, 220/220@.050, 282/282, LSA 110, LCA 107/117

The B303

.480/.480, 224/224@.050, 284/284, LSA 112, LCA 109/119

What that all means? The E303 when installed straight up, is not actually straight up. It's built with a 3* advance on the intake to help control compression. It also has a less aggressive ramp rate than the B303, and less duration. That means the actual amount of overlap on the E303 is smaller than what you think. That's why the E303 is recommended for the AOD, and the B303 for the 5spd. The B303 has the makings of a more high winding cam than the E303, but doesn't have enough lift for an EFI car. The B303 will perform well on a carbed car, though. Not that it's BAD on EFI, just could use some more lift to make use of it's more aggressive duration.

The E303 is a solid supercharger cam. Both you can Eric might learn a little by checking out some of the site's combo's using the setup. Nicolle Douglas is making 500rwhp with an E303 and a supercharger. Dan McClain made 500rwhp with a supercharger and E303. Exgmguy has posted here about how his combination runs. Skyman's car peaks over 5000rpms as well. 88workcar has posted. What else do you skeptics need? I've given a technical analysis, as per standard, along with some explaination, and cited examples of people running the cams you're bashing. I fail to see how you have a leg to stand on. Not that you had one before with people who ACTUALLY run the cam telling you it works. Mach, I do believe you had the E303 in your auto at one point, and you were very frustrated by an idle problem common to the cam. Maybe you're harboring grudges for it robbing you of sleep?

Unit just when i think you've said something stupid..you keep running your mouth. Ok so YOU know everything about how to go fast huh? Looks like you don't know your head from your *****. If you did you wouldn't have a 14 second car. So your not gonna tolerate my bull on this thread?? what are you gonna do ban me? :D Now i know why you were voted MW's PITA. It obviously shows. Go read some more magazines and then come back to me when you wanna talk about going fast.

Wanna road race? My 02GT, vs your monstrosity. Hell, I'll even pull the 87 out of the garage and run you on a road course. Jeez... don't you feel stupid cause your $100,000 race car will get smoked by a $3400, 161k 1987 Mustang GT on a road course. :rolleyes:

I guess I get my kicks by knowing stuff, and not paying somebody to know stuff for me. I was voted MW biggest pita because it's nearly impossible to beat me in a debate. I come armed with facts. Not a bunch of my cars faster so I know more BS.

Speaking of debate, where's yours? All I see is a load about how if I knew anything I would have a really fast car... yawn. Some things are more important to me in life than having a drag car.

I've always been taught less is more. Maybe you should try that. Besides your not going fast enough if you can turn. So what's more important in life than having a dragcar? running your mouth about something you have absolutely no knowledge of?

I'm siding with Kell on this one.

The E-cam will pull past 4500, it's ludicruis to say a E-cam won't pull past 4500rpm when a stocker will.

88workcar, Dan, Nicole, Skyler, ExGmGuy....all people running fast with E-cams

That's ok. I have NO KNOWLEDGE whatsoever of a motor. Forgive me for thinking that i do. Unit you know more than anybody i've ever seen in my whole life. You've been around fast motors all your life. Forgive me for underestimating you :rolleyes: it's been fun guys.

Hey Eric.....how about presenting your argument and backing it up with facts instead of just calling names.

This is an exercise in futility. You know, those rocket scientists don't know jack about rockets. I mean, come on. If they did, they'd have their own rocket in the back yard. Maybe you'd like to talk about fuel? I get 19-21/27-29 mpg with my 1987GT. I bet your drag car gets pretty lousy gas mileage. Therefore, you know nothing about fuel.

Your less is more statement certainly holds true here though. Less facts from you is more proof you haven't the slightest about what you're talking about. If you can't debate, just say it... then again, actions clearly speak louder than words.

My knowledge is not lacking, which is how I was just able to explain some complex camshaft theory to you above. Please, enlighten me on how cams work, and why the E303 won't pull above 4500 O Great Camshaft Wizard, who only has a fast car cause he paid somebody to make it fast.

Other things more important than dragcar.

My daily driver.
My computer.
My job.
My ability to take vacations.
My free time.
My motorcycle.
My snowmobile (before I sold it, which should give you a clue about where the drag car sits on my priority list).

I wish I were a moderator, because then I'd move this thread right now. Not to another forum, but to a completely different message board. This kind of crap belongs on the corral, because all they do over there is argue.

Please close this thread as it has just turned into a childish fight.

I agree! Close the damn thread....ya'll can argue all year long about this ****.
You know...everyone is into thier own 'thing'. Everyone is more knowledeable about what THEY have....
You either go slow, you go fast, or you haul fkn *****....
it dont matter how you got there, just that your satisfied w/ what ya got and you understand it and can maintain it..
Everyone is into thier own 'thing' and everyone should respect the others knowledge about what they are FAMILIAR with.
so...I might be out of line but this is a worthless argument. And everyone has knowledge about what they are saying to an extent... but theres no reason to be downright rude to your fellow MW'ers....
wether you run a drag car or a road race car..how can you compare the 2? Granted, Im not NEARLY AS KNOWLEDGEABLE as all ya'll but this argument is not even worth arguing about.
and, unless you wanna see some serious flaming continue, lets just put this one to rest!
Everyone stated thier opinion. Noted. Let a sleeping dog lie...

i agree, fight nice kid's, geez, whatever, i got an xyz cam, anyone?, uuppss forgot i got 2 cam's, as the weather gets colder, my pos run's faster, drive thru please. CHILL OUT!.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Unit - Can you expalin why the e-cam is notorious for surging problems in EFI mustangs? Why so MANY more people have experienced surging with this cam compared to other cams? Im convinced it is the narrow LSA, and narrow LSA's arent the best for blower applications. Are you debateing this point? Thats the point I said.

Its not that difficult to make 500 HP with a blower on a modded mustang, so using those benchmarks as somekind of proof for the e-cam is ridiculous. Swap the e-cam out and see what kind of power those combinations make with a better blower grind.

And the e-cam sucks for automatics, again because of its narrow LSA, which gives it no bottom end.

I remind you I speak from experience with the e cam and not what I read from the Ford Motorsport catalog, as sometimes I think you are doing.

I dont deny that you have studied cams and have some good knowledge, you spent more time figuring them out than me, but I am making valid points..Im not just throwing garbage out there.

And I have spent more than a couple weekends swapping cams just to alter my cars idle and powerband characterisitcs. Have you?