Edelbrock garbage

Stang951 · 06-14-2001, 08:58 PM

Ok here's the problem. I have a 7181 Perfromer RPM cam and lifter kit. When we put the motor together the first time we used the stock rocker arms. When the motor starts and idles there was alot of valve clater, which immediately goes away after the motor revs past idle, and the motor got up to 210 degress real fast. We called Edelbrock and they said that we had to use 1.6 ratio bolt down adjustable rocker arms. Found Omegas (couldnt find any other brand). They dont bolt all the way down. Now what. I cant call Edelbrock or Central Coast tonight, so what the hell am I supposed to do now. I am at the point that I want to remove the edelbrock garbage and start anew!!!!!!!!

------------------
1988 Mustang LX w5.8/ 1993 Thunderbird LX 5.0 / 1990 5.8 block/ Edelbrock Perfromer Intake/ Edelbrock Performer RPM cam and lifters/ Edelbrock Performer street pump/ Edelbrock timing gears/ Ronald Boudreaux custom headers and exhaust/ Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers/ March Performance billet aluminum underdrive pulleys/ MSD billet distributor/ MSD 6AL ignition box/ MSD Superconductor wires/ Energy SUspension polyurethane engine and transmission mounts/ Omega adjustable Roller rocker arms / Ford M

juiceman · 06-14-2001, 10:55 PM

well first off, temp has nothing to do with the rockers. assuming you put the cam and lifters in correctly you should have no problem. as for the rockers not bolting all the way down, im not sure i understand that. do you mean that when you tighten them down to 20ft. lbs the rocker still doesnt hit the valve tip? if so, you need longer push rods. if its the other way around, when you tighten the rockers the rocker hits the valve tip before its all the way tightened then you need shims.

Stang951 · 06-15-2001, 07:34 AM

I said the same thing about the temp. That was what the Edelbrock tech told my friend when he called. Every time that one of us has called, we have gotten a new and different answer from thier techs. I think that is why I am getting so frustrated. The Omega rockers are pictured below and have adjustable cups on the pushrods, so I dont think pushrod length should be the problem. I am going there in a little while though and I will see for myself. Thanks for the repoly. I will post my findings later on.

------------------
1988 Mustang LX w5.8/ 1993 Thunderbird LX 5.0 / 1990 5.8 block/ Edelbrock Perfromer Intake/ Edelbrock Performer RPM cam and lifters/ Edelbrock Performer street pump/ Edelbrock timing gears/ Ronald Boudreaux custom headers and exhaust/ Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers/ March Performance billet aluminum underdrive pulleys/ MSD billet distributor/ MSD 6AL ignition box/ MSD Superconductor wires/ Energy SUspension polyurethane engine and transmission mounts/ Omega adjustable Roller rocker arms / Ford M

Dark Knight · 06-15-2001, 12:32 PM

are you sure you got pedestal mount rochers and not stud mount? they dont interchange..
as for the temp... what thermostat? and were the head gaskets put on in the right direction?

------------------
84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives stock shorties
stock cam, 1.7's
14.06@100.21, 255RWHP on a hot day
265 on the mph/weight chart

Stang951 · 06-15-2001, 12:45 PM

The head gaskets were put on correctly. My friend even tore the motor down again to make sure of that. According to what Edelbrock told his co-worker, the play in the stock valvetrain will cause excessive heat build up relatively quick...hence that is why you have to use the adjustable rocker arms - to remove the slack.
. I just got back from the shop and here is what I saw. When bolted all the way down, the pedestal guide has about 1/10" (maybe a little less) play. What I mean is that you can move the rocker up and down. Several people said I need shims and I believe they are correct. I just got back from Ford and I got one pack, even though now that I look at them I think I should have gotten two. Once these are installed I will let everyone know how it turned out.
Thanks for the help.

------------------
1988 Mustang LX w5.8/ 1993 Thunderbird LX 5.0 / 1990 5.8 block/ Edelbrock Perfromer Intake/ Edelbrock Performer RPM cam and lifters/ Edelbrock Performer street pump/ Edelbrock timing gears/ Ronald Boudreaux custom headers and exhaust/ Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers/ March Performance billet aluminum underdrive pulleys/ MSD billet distributor/ MSD 6AL ignition box/ MSD Superconductor wires/ Energy SUspension polyurethane engine and transmission mounts/ Omega adjustable Roller rocker arms / Ford M

juiceman · 06-15-2001, 01:31 PM

im sorry if i am confused but i am. when the rocker is torqued down you say it can move up and down right. by that do you mean that the whole rocker arm assem. can be lifted up or do you mean that the rocker can rock back and forth freely. in either case a shim will only make it worse since shims lift the rocker higher. you will need to adj. the pushrod cup down till it hits the rod the 1/4 turn more. if the rocker assem. is still moving up and down after it is torqued the either you have installed them wrong or the bolt is bottoming out. i have seen cases where the pedastal flat has to be shaved down a little. if you cant get it right, take a few pics of the motor so i can see exactly what your talking about. as for the heat buildup from play in the valve train, tell the tech guy to go back to school. solid rollers run .016 gap on the rockers tips (valve lash) and they dont shoot up to 210 temp.

Stang951 · 06-15-2001, 08:58 PM

Thanks Juice. I have a detail in the morning and will be working another 16 hour shift so I might not be able to get there till Monday. But I now have the problem down to shorter bolts or the shims.

------------------
1988 Mustang LX w5.8/ 1993 Thunderbird LX 5.0 / 1990 5.8 block/ Edelbrock Perfromer Intake/ Edelbrock Performer RPM cam and lifters/ Edelbrock Performer street pump/ Edelbrock timing gears/ Ronald Boudreaux custom headers and exhaust/ Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers/ March Performance billet aluminum underdrive pulleys/ MSD billet distributor/ MSD 6AL ignition box/ MSD Superconductor wires/ Energy SUspension polyurethane engine and transmission mounts/ Omega adjustable Roller rocker arms / Ford M

06-16-2001, 02:01 AM

The operating temp of the engine probably went up because aluminum soaks up ALOT more heat than cast iron. Iron heads deflect alot of the combustion heat into the actual exhaust whereas aluminum heads tend to soak quite a bit more up. That's why you can run higher compression ratios with aluminum heads and use lower grade gas. Just one thought, i've heard that when you get aluminum heads, you also want to upgrade the cooling system. Just some ideas, hope this helps. Good luck!

------------------
'84 Mustang 5.0 LX
My car

Mach 1 · 06-16-2001, 08:21 AM

who said anything about aluminum heads?

I dont know why u need the shims with adjustable push rod tips?

You may be barking up the wrong tree.

------------------
1993 GT/AOD
'93 Mustang GT

06-14-2001, 08:58 PM	#1
Stang951 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Metairie, La. USA Posts: 132	Edelbrock garbage Ok here's the problem. I have a 7181 Perfromer RPM cam and lifter kit. When we put the motor together the first time we used the stock rocker arms. When the motor starts and idles there was alot of valve clater, which immediately goes away after the motor revs past idle, and the motor got up to 210 degress real fast. We called Edelbrock and they said that we had to use 1.6 ratio bolt down adjustable rocker arms. Found Omegas (couldnt find any other brand). They dont bolt all the way down. Now what. I cant call Edelbrock or Central Coast tonight, so what the hell am I supposed to do now. I am at the point that I want to remove the edelbrock garbage and start anew!!!!!!!! ------------------ 1988 Mustang LX w5.8/ 1993 Thunderbird LX 5.0 / 1990 5.8 block/ Edelbrock Perfromer Intake/ Edelbrock Performer RPM cam and lifters/ Edelbrock Performer street pump/ Edelbrock timing gears/ Ronald Boudreaux custom headers and exhaust/ Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers/ March Performance billet aluminum underdrive pulleys/ MSD billet distributor/ MSD 6AL ignition box/ MSD Superconductor wires/ Energy SUspension polyurethane engine and transmission mounts/ Omega adjustable Roller rocker arms / Ford M

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06-14-2001, 10:55 PM	#2
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	well first off, temp has nothing to do with the rockers. assuming you put the cam and lifters in correctly you should have no problem. as for the rockers not bolting all the way down, im not sure i understand that. do you mean that when you tighten them down to 20ft. lbs the rocker still doesnt hit the valve tip? if so, you need longer push rods. if its the other way around, when you tighten the rockers the rocker hits the valve tip before its all the way tightened then you need shims.

06-15-2001, 07:34 AM	#3
Stang951 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Metairie, La. USA Posts: 132	I said the same thing about the temp. That was what the Edelbrock tech told my friend when he called. Every time that one of us has called, we have gotten a new and different answer from thier techs. I think that is why I am getting so frustrated. The Omega rockers are pictured below and have adjustable cups on the pushrods, so I dont think pushrod length should be the problem. I am going there in a little while though and I will see for myself. Thanks for the repoly. I will post my findings later on. ------------------ 1988 Mustang LX w5.8/ 1993 Thunderbird LX 5.0 / 1990 5.8 block/ Edelbrock Perfromer Intake/ Edelbrock Performer RPM cam and lifters/ Edelbrock Performer street pump/ Edelbrock timing gears/ Ronald Boudreaux custom headers and exhaust/ Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers/ March Performance billet aluminum underdrive pulleys/ MSD billet distributor/ MSD 6AL ignition box/ MSD Superconductor wires/ Energy SUspension polyurethane engine and transmission mounts/ Omega adjustable Roller rocker arms / Ford M

06-15-2001, 12:32 PM	#4
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	are you sure you got pedestal mount rochers and not stud mount? they dont interchange.. as for the temp... what thermostat? and were the head gaskets put on in the right direction? ------------------ 84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives stock shorties stock cam, 1.7's 14.06@100.21, 255RWHP on a hot day 265 on the mph/weight chart

06-15-2001, 12:45 PM	#5
Stang951 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Metairie, La. USA Posts: 132	The head gaskets were put on correctly. My friend even tore the motor down again to make sure of that. According to what Edelbrock told his co-worker, the play in the stock valvetrain will cause excessive heat build up relatively quick...hence that is why you have to use the adjustable rocker arms - to remove the slack. . I just got back from the shop and here is what I saw. When bolted all the way down, the pedestal guide has about 1/10" (maybe a little less) play. What I mean is that you can move the rocker up and down. Several people said I need shims and I believe they are correct. I just got back from Ford and I got one pack, even though now that I look at them I think I should have gotten two. Once these are installed I will let everyone know how it turned out. Thanks for the help. ------------------ 1988 Mustang LX w5.8/ 1993 Thunderbird LX 5.0 / 1990 5.8 block/ Edelbrock Perfromer Intake/ Edelbrock Performer RPM cam and lifters/ Edelbrock Performer street pump/ Edelbrock timing gears/ Ronald Boudreaux custom headers and exhaust/ Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers/ March Performance billet aluminum underdrive pulleys/ MSD billet distributor/ MSD 6AL ignition box/ MSD Superconductor wires/ Energy SUspension polyurethane engine and transmission mounts/ Omega adjustable Roller rocker arms / Ford M

06-15-2001, 01:31 PM	#6
juiceman Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: ny Posts: 197	im sorry if i am confused but i am. when the rocker is torqued down you say it can move up and down right. by that do you mean that the whole rocker arm assem. can be lifted up or do you mean that the rocker can rock back and forth freely. in either case a shim will only make it worse since shims lift the rocker higher. you will need to adj. the pushrod cup down till it hits the rod the 1/4 turn more. if the rocker assem. is still moving up and down after it is torqued the either you have installed them wrong or the bolt is bottoming out. i have seen cases where the pedastal flat has to be shaved down a little. if you cant get it right, take a few pics of the motor so i can see exactly what your talking about. as for the heat buildup from play in the valve train, tell the tech guy to go back to school. solid rollers run .016 gap on the rockers tips (valve lash) and they dont shoot up to 210 temp.

06-15-2001, 08:58 PM	#7
Stang951 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Metairie, La. USA Posts: 132	Thanks Juice. I have a detail in the morning and will be working another 16 hour shift so I might not be able to get there till Monday. But I now have the problem down to shorter bolts or the shims. ------------------ 1988 Mustang LX w5.8/ 1993 Thunderbird LX 5.0 / 1990 5.8 block/ Edelbrock Perfromer Intake/ Edelbrock Performer RPM cam and lifters/ Edelbrock Performer street pump/ Edelbrock timing gears/ Ronald Boudreaux custom headers and exhaust/ Flowmaster 2 chamber mufflers/ March Performance billet aluminum underdrive pulleys/ MSD billet distributor/ MSD 6AL ignition box/ MSD Superconductor wires/ Energy SUspension polyurethane engine and transmission mounts/ Omega adjustable Roller rocker arms / Ford M

06-16-2001, 02:01 AM	#8
84stangLX Guest Posts: n/a	The operating temp of the engine probably went up because aluminum soaks up ALOT more heat than cast iron. Iron heads deflect alot of the combustion heat into the actual exhaust whereas aluminum heads tend to soak quite a bit more up. That's why you can run higher compression ratios with aluminum heads and use lower grade gas. Just one thought, i've heard that when you get aluminum heads, you also want to upgrade the cooling system. Just some ideas, hope this helps. Good luck! ------------------ '84 Mustang 5.0 LX My car

06-16-2001, 08:21 AM	#9
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	who said anything about aluminum heads? I dont know why u need the shims with adjustable push rod tips? You may be barking up the wrong tree. ------------------ 1993 GT/AOD '93 Mustang GT