EFI conversion Need help FAST!

[Fostang]

Finally got around to doing the EFI conversion in the 67' fasback. Sounds real mean on start up. In cold start up it will idle just a little rough and I won't notice anything wrong. Then once it warms up and I shut it off It'll be hard to restart once It starts I hear a click inside the computer and it cuts out like its about to die and then comes back if I reverse the left and right oxygen sensors it'll die out when you hear that same click. I also tried disconecting the ground on the oxygen sensors and then starting and it idled a little rough as during a cold start up but if I try grounding the oxygen sensors the problem of the engine wanting to die will be back. Also pulled the plugs and they are black. What could be the problem? Any ideas on what I should check? Also I'm confused if the right oxygen sensor is the drivers or the passengers side. :shrug:

[Fostang]

Do engine harnesses change year to year? If so could this be the culprit. I pulled some codes and it says code 85 for a purge valve malfuction but I checked it off the car and it's operating correctly. I then checked the voltage at the line and there is none at anytime off,on,etc. Just dead. No other faulty codes. Since I did a MAF conversion on this harness code 95 comes up since I didn't wire up the FP monitor. Thats where I think that the engine harness isn't linking up to the rest of the harness correctly.

[Stroked408]

I think the name of the web-site is Windsor-Fox they specialize in putting fuelie motors in older cars,they might be able to help you out there.

[Fostang]

I switched computers from the 88 ca mass air 5 speed computer to an 89 mass air computer and the purge solenoid fault code went away. Also wired up the FP monitor and that code went away with the engine off all codes are away. I started it up and ran codes first 44,94,and 33 came up tad,tab, and egr not opening. Replaced the EGR. Ran the scan again 33 egr problem went away but now code a 12 code idle problem. The thing is if I don't keep it idling at that range it fluctates quite a bit. It's around 1-1200 rpm. The tab and tad solenoids are installed but aren't doing anything because I didn't install the smog pump. Is there a proper way to eliminate them to erase the codes Also would this be causing a problem with the mixture?

[65efi]

I also installed those two solinoids on my '65. Like yours, they're not hooked up to anything other than the wiring harness. These shouldn't be causing your problems, I just ignore the smog pump codes as they don't trigger the MIL (check engine light).

You may want to check the voltage from your O2 sensors to see if they are in the right range. Also, I'm thinking your idle problem could be caused by the ISC. Also double check the EVP sensor has smooth voltage changes (like the TPS should).

Did you hook up your EGR valve?

[Fostang]

Yes I do have the egr hooked up. What voltage should the oxygen sensors or egr postion sensor have? I swapped back to speed density and it somewhat improved. What side is the right side oxygen sensor the passenger or driver? Should I keep it speed density if it ran ok just idle isn't all that good. I get a code for the air bypass valve now. I tried replacing it. The code went away and a map sensor came up so I changed it and the air bypass is still comes up but the map went away. The car is idling kinda funny it takes time for it to idle back down after reving it but does and then kinda speeds back up and then after a while slows back down. I am going to replace the fouled plugs but first I want to get the O2 right so they don't get fouled again.

[65efi]

The O2 sensors generate their own voltage through a chemical reaction at the tip. To test the voltage, warm up the engine, disconnect the sensor, connect the positive lead of your VOM to the signal lead form the O2 sensor and the negative to ground. Run the engine at 2000 RPM for around a minute or so. You should have .5 volts or more. If not, the O2 may be bad.

Next with your VOM still connected and the engine running, create a vacuum leak. The voltage should drop and fluctuate. If not, again the O2 may be bad. If it passes both of these, it should be good.

Right side O2 is the Passenger side.

Which air bipass code are you getting - if it's for the ISC (or IAB) then this could definitely be the cause of your idling problems.

[Fostang]

What should the idle be at? I'll try to check out the o2 sensors tomorrow. To see if one of them is shot. Again I'm seeing much better results with the speed density. I just need to know how to tune it for mods now.

[Fostang]

I switched the plugs on for the O2's how you said that right was passengers side and now it'll kinda bog at idle and come back just sometimes but other than this I didn't notice a big difference between idle quality from switching the plugs around. Also mesure the volts but did leave them plug in and just piggy backed the system into the VOM and came up with similar mesurements on both sides and even switched L,R around the sensors to see if they would mesure different no difference in the mesurement. Another thing I did was create a vacuum leak It might not have been that big because there was no real variation. The only time I saw it drop below .5 was when I reved it and at the times when the idle goes down by itself and begins to sort of bog. I even saw it go down to 0.00. I'm really starting to suspect that I'm having some kind of electrical feed back from somewhere or a faulty relay somewhere because at the time that I saw it drop to 0.00 I went to turn off the car and clicked it down to my surprise it kept running I went back to on and did it again this time it shut off and hasn't done it since. It really wierded me out. Could some of my problems be solved by running and alternator. I can't get the internal regulated alernator to work with my system so I have it disconected just running off the battery.

[65efi]

As far as the alternator goes, I'm running a one-wire GM unit on mine and it works fine (I know, it's a Chevy part, but one-wire alternators for Fords are twice as much).

Again, you said you were getting an air bypass code...what is the code number? Are you still getting the code?

You should be idling at around 600 RPM.

Have you checked the basics.....ignition timing, check the engine vacuum at idle, clean air filter, check for vacuum leaks. Many times it's the basics that will get you.

Other tests you can do quicly and easily just to rule items out include testing the ISC and the TPS. Check the Idle Speed Control solinoid by disconnecting it while the motor is running. The RPM should drop way down or even die. Check the TPS to make certain the voltage changes smoothly throughout the throttle range. They often develop 'flat spots'.

As far as your engine running with the key off, that's a mystery to me. Perhaps a bad ignition switch?

You had said you head a click near the computer. Check to see if it's coming from one of the relays. You computer is solid state, and has no moving parts. Most likely it's a solinoid mounted near the computer, and that might also be a key to your problems.

[Fostang]

I just ordered a power master 140 amp 1 wire alternator. So that should help it.

I haven't checked for that code after replacing the air bypass. I do remember getting code 33 egr, I think it's from using too small of a vacuum line.

Timing is at 10 without spout connected. Idle vaccum is at 20 hg at idle if I rev it and it goes down to 14 hg and when I let go it goes to 22hg and back down to 20 hg after a few seconds. Air filter is new.

Air bypass valve and idle speed control are the same, right? Well when I disconect it the car goes low and dies.

Voltage at the TPS is constant. I had a question about the tps. Everyone talks about adjusting it. Well the tps I have just screws into place and can't be moved. I have 2 of them like this both from a 5.0. I do have a relay by the computer and it's the fuel pump relay.

I might have a bad main relay that brings the whole system to life. I ran it my using the original power switch to activate.

[65efi]

Sounds like all the basics are checking out good. Idle Air Bypass and Idle Speed Control are the same thing. If the car died when you disconnected it, it's working fine.

What do you mean by the TPS signal is constant? It should change, smoothly, as you move the throttle (voltage to the tps is constant, the signal changes with throttle). I haven't 'adjusted' my tps, but I think it's done by modifying the holes in the tps to allow you to rotate the sensor to adjust it's voltage at idle. i could be wrong.

Maybe you can post the codes your getting now. Not sure where to go next....

[Fostang]

I meant yes the tps does move a steady pace. But how do you adjust it. The screw in doesn't move any bit It just screws into place and can't be moved around like the one on the SVO.

[Fostang]

Well got the powermaster alternator and a conical k&n filter installed and it ran a bit better. The only thing I'm noticed now is that on starting it up it'll run fine then begin to run rich I'll check the voltage comming from the O2 sensors and the drivers side one will be in the zeros. Then after a while the engine will pick up a fine idle and the O2 will be above .5 volts. Then again it'll start to run rich and this time the passengers side is on the zeros. Again will restore it self and the engine will idle fine. After this the engine runs fine until the next start up where it does it again.

[65efi]

I believe what you might be seeing with the voltage changes is the computer trying to fine tune the A/F mixture. It will continuously cycle between slightly rich and slightly lean, trying to maintain A/F at 14.7:1. Normally it doesn't swing that much in either direction though.

At least you know the O2 sensors are working correctly - voltage should drop if the motor is running rich.

Does it still do this after it's warmed up? You may need to run it for a while after disconnecting the battery for the ECM to figure everything out. I'd also double check all vacuum connections.

Does it run fine otherwise? Any codes?

[Fostang]

Yeah it runs good other than when this starts to happen. All systems are fine when the koeo test on the koer I get codes 94,44, and 33. I'm going to check my fuel pressure and probably replace the o2's. One more question I connected the red/lt blue wire from the TFI to the ignition switch in the start position only and whenever I go to crank it blows the fuse on the power wire. If I connected it to constant voltage it'll start and run. I would leave like this but I'm conserned that the eec thinks that the engine is trying to start so it uses the tables set for starting. That wire originaly went to the starter relay on the efi system.

[Fostang]

Well checked the fuel pressure and came up with 30 psi with vacuum conected and 40 psi with it disconected. I switched the green/purple labeled right o2 to the passengers side and the blue/green labeled left o2 to the drivers side no really big change except that now it surges and if I give it a tap on the accelerator it stops doing it. Does seem to smell less and idles better. Maybe I should replace the o2 now and the bad plugs. I also found out how to set the tps and got it right at .98 volts.

[65efi]

I don't think I'd spend the money on the O2's if I were you, according to the voltage they are putting out they look fine. The code 33 error is a little wierd. Have you checked the EVP?

You can check the EVP resistance by connecting your VOM to the EVP signal pin (on the EVP, closest to the flat side of the connector in the middle). Connect the vacuum line for the EGR valve to a vacuum pump. At zero vacuum, you should see resistance of about 5K ohms. Resistance should drop smoothly until you reach 10" of vacuum which should be 100 ohms. I've had these go bad on me in the past.

Since the code 33 is telling you the EGR valve isn't moving, it could also be a vacuum line issue.

As far as your TFI wiring goes, the book I have shows the 3rd prong down from the top should have power on start only. The 4th prong down should have power only under run. Is this the way it's wired?

[Fostang]

I changed the egr and the evp out and the same code keeps comming up. I'll check the voltage out of it as soon as I get done eating and report the findings.

TFI- red green has power at run along with msd box and also I believe this wire goes to the eec relay.

red blue power to start keeps blowing fuses so what I'm going to do is put a relay on this line so it doesn't get negative back feeded through the relay.

[Fostang]

Found a vacuum leak! EGR vacuum solenoid. I hooked up a hand vacuum pump to the inlet that should be closed off when the egr isn't in use and sure enough it was loosing vacuum quite rapidly. Also found by checking the ohms being put out that the solenoid is faulty. Hope this helps.