Electrical question

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

I'm stripping out the harness on "Lenore" (my '66) and was wondering what effect swapping out lower gauge wires for higher gauge would be.
To give you some idea, the harness has been raped, and the previous owner (s) did kind of a half-@$$ed job reparing the damage. (I'm gonna have to completly replace the fuse box)
So far most of the splices seem to match in gauge, but I'm not sure about all of them.
Its been a long time since high school "industrial elec. wiring" so I'm a bit rusty.
Please help,
J

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

OK, Addendum:
A lot of the parts I've gotten into so far are in pretty bad shape, either from misuse or general wear and tear, lots of heat damage, etc. Does anyone make wiring assortments to match the factory colors/ connectors, or is it just easier to buy whole portions of the harness?

Thanks
J

[PKRWUD]

Try Painless Wiring.

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

Chris:Can I borrow $600? *edit*Or do you mean that they might sell bare wiring? I'll check them out. Sorry for any confusion.
Actually to my surprise, the underhood wasnt in as hideous a shape as I imagined. The only bad part was the alt pigtail which I think I'm just gonna replace for $30.
Theres one or two places with a little heat damage , the pessimisim before was just because I thought the whole thing was going to look like the alt
The underdash is going to be the ugly one, thats where the prev owner did the most damage.
On the good side, I've also finished refurbing the gauge cluster, installing the new fuel gauge, and rebuilding my rally pack, with a working clock now!
I'll post the pics once I get them off the digital.

J

[Rev]

I'm probably like some of the previous owners that you have referred to, LOL. I see nothing wrong with electrical repairs to wiring if they are done well. When I want some new accessory which I add as needed, I do wire them right in. My '66 didn't come with an electric fuel pump, electric fans, tach, electronic ignition, multiple discharge ignition box, or oil pressure actuated cut off switch for fuel and fan. All this stuff had to be added with proper relays, fuses, etc. I always use heavier guage wire than I think I need. Heavier won't hurt anything in a repair or addition, but too small wire might get too hot and burn off the insulation causing all kinds of grief. Mine is by now a custom wiring harness in almost every respect. Unless you're building a concourse restoration, I don't really see how you can keep your wiring "original". I'm not advocating sloppy wiring. I just can't imagine not doing the upgrades when needed.

Rev

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

believe me, I'm not trying to restore to concours, there are several things I want to add as well, But definatly do it right.
To give you some examples of the hack job done on my poor car:
I'm going to add a pic (not great quality, sorry) of where the idiot that did this decided to connect 2 wires off the alt (not sure what each does until I can see where each leads in the int. ) so to make this connection, he threaded the o-ring with a screw and nut, then stuck the other end into a push on connector, and elec. taped the whole thing into a ball.

I'm still getting the interior unhooked and labeled, but:
interior problems found so far:
Nothing connected to the center console wiring.
Nothing to the sole remaining door jamb light switch.
No radio connection harness to be found .
Ditto for the fog lights
Ditto for the lighter.
Starting to see a pattern?
I cant wait to get the int. harness completly out, and try to figure out what I can do with this mess.
Guess I have my winter project, huh?

J

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

After unwrapping:

[hobgoblin351]

Hey, that looked like my wireing harness! If you dont have the $$$ to go for a new one or even a good used junkyard one, then repair is the last resort. I'd definitely go with a heavier guage wire. But not too much thicker. If you're going to the trouble to, do the repairs. Do it right. Solder everything! Then heat wrap the wires so you dont have them going bad on you again. I've patched mine, and so far(knock wood) have not had a problem. Good luck

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

Well, I have the underdash harness out of the car (finally). The dameage is worse than I thought. Both of the square connectors that come out of the firewall have several wires a piece that look like they were laid on a hot header for an hour or so. Some of the wires in the loom have had the insulation completly burned off, then re-wrapped with e-tape (!)
Making sense out of things is going to be a nightmare. Heres what I'm planning. Pointers, suggestions, expierences, etc are more than welcome.
1:unwrap and clean up what i've got, and number all the wires I can ID with the factory number from the diagram.
2:Seperate the "mess" into mini-looms by system (int/ext lighting, starting/charging, courtesy/comfort etc)
3:replace the obvious damage to the mini-looms, then continuity test them.
4: The hard part, try to reintegrate them into something that I can put back into the car.

What do you folks think? Am I missing anything? I'll post pics of the mess as soon as I get some space on the digital.
BTW,
Anyone here looking to sell a used complete underdash harness?


J

Oh, and Hobgoblin, believe me, Ive already laid in a supply of misc connectors, heat shrink tube and zip ties

[Rev]

I can't see why you can't just use a Ford manual wiring diagram and just splice in new wire for the bad parts. Soldering in the connections and shrink wrap should make it good as new shouldn't it?

I did that in my car in probably dozens of added or repaired circuits and have not had any problems to speak of. If you need a circuit for fog lights, why not just make a new one using a relay, inline fuse, and a OEM dash switch to actuate the whole circuit? I can't really see where your problem lies if you're not after concourse correct appearance.

Still trying to figure out the function of the bolt thing in the picture that you posted, LOL.

Rev

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

I'm going to be using the diagrams, I guess the thing that has me worried is the amount of "custom" work that has been done to it. lots of "wires to nowhere" etc, not to mention that they managed to condense the wiring to the new fuse box down to just 5 circuts/fuses. (BTW how many did the stock box have? My wiring diagrams do not have the actual fuse box layout)

Thanks for the info and ideas,
J

[PKRWUD]

I'm not trying to piss in your Cheerios, but you would be very wise to replace as much of the harness as possible with a replacement made by someone else. I'm great at electrical. I got a perfect score on my last ASE electrical recertification exam. I think electrical problems are fun. And even I won't try and patch individual wires when the harness has damage like you've described. Let me tell you why.

Every inch of every wire that has any signs of damage, must be replaced. If it got hot enough to burn off the insulation at one point in its length, then the entire wire is suspect of having melted into another wire, but that you won't be able to see (in a harness). Moreover, the wire becomes forever damaged when it gets that hot, and is much weaker now than it should be. When you splice in new pieces of wire where you see problems, you are still keeping damaged portions of that wire in other places in the car. Doing such is just begging for more problems to occur, possibly setting the car on fire (that's what happened to my '69 Chevelle SS396 back in 1984. ).

Replacement harnesses are not cheap, but neither is buying a new car because yours caught on fire because of a short to ground in the brake light circuit where it tucks underneath the carpet.

I would never try and discourage someone from working on their own car, but rather than splice and patch this system, save up your pennies and find replacement harnesses for all of the affected circuits.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

No offense taken Chris, I've been around here long enough to know you dont talk out your hindquarters *paraphrase*
I can see your point about the damage to the wire. I cant do anything about the whole wire problems, but at least I'm replacing all damaged/suspect sections.
I've also unwrapped the whole thing, so at least I dont have to worry about hidden damage. (getting it back into the car will be fun though....) Is there anything I can do to minimize the chance of a problem?

At this point, I dont forsee being able to get the car back on the road in the near future anyway, so if nothing else, this is a learning exercise. Maybe by the point I have a motor ready, I'll be able to afford going for a new harness.

[Rev]

Originally posted by KiltedBanshees93GT
I'm going to be using the diagrams, I guess the thing that has me worried is the amount of "custom" work that has been done to it. lots of "wires to nowhere" etc, not to mention that they managed to condense the wiring to the new fuse box down to just 5 circuts/fuses. (BTW how many did the stock box have? My wiring diagrams do not have the actual fuse box layout)

Thanks for the info and ideas,
J

Here's a pic from my '66 shop manual. It shows only 5 fuses. See attatchment.

Rev

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

Cool, thanks Rev, thats going to help matters greatly. To make sure that I'm reading that correctly, it says that the fuses are: a 14 amp accessory, 14 amp heater, 2.5 (?) instrument lights, 7.5 (?) Dome lights and a 14 amp cigarette lighter?
Mine is set up with a 30 amp and 4- 25 amp fuses. (And considering that the cig lighter wasn't hooked up, makes me wonder what they have that one running to )
Thanks for the help folks, I should have everything repaired and tested by (hopefully) this weekend, then I'm going to lay it out, hook up as much as I can and test it. Pics will be forthcoming.
Thanks again,
J

[Rev]

Originally Posted by KiltedBanshees93GT

(And considering that the cig lighter wasn't hooked up, makes me wonder what they have that one running to )J

Made me laugh at my "custom" wiring harness. I found the need for 3 cigarette lighter outlets. I wanted to be able to use 1.) radar detector 2.) old Gtech 3.) new Gtech all at the same time. My solution was to just run 2 new circuits with inline fuses straight from my dash to the + connection of the battery cable pole on the starter relay. I just don't see any other reasonable way to do it.

Rev

[PKRWUD]

Yes, there is something you can do to try and avoid problems. If you have the wires out, you can use a multimeter, set to ohms, and measure the resistance in the wire, from one end to the other. A wire that has suffered damage, but that hasn't melted the insulation, will have much higher resistance than the others. Also, feel the wires for soft spots. A soft, spongey feeling area in the wire means that part is damaged, and must be replaced.

I gotta say, I admire your determination!

Also, I don't know if they are in your car or not, but the horns are usually in the same circuit as the cigarette lighter.

[KiltedBanshees93GT]

Thanks Chris, that will be very useful. Ive got about all the loose wires continuity tested , and am now fighting with the "octopus" (all the circuts that are hard wired together). I'll start ohm testing there, and do the loose stuff later.
And thanks for the compliment, though I would call it stubborness and poverty
And I promise I'll have pics as soon as the g/f unloads her pics off the camera.
J

[Rev]

Originally Posted by PKRWUD

Yes, there is something you can do to try and avoid problems. If you have the wires out, you can use a multimeter, set to ohms, and measure the resistance in the wire, from one end to the other. A wire that has suffered damage, but that hasn't melted the insulation, will have much higher resistance than the others. Also, feel the wires for soft spots. A soft, spongey feeling area in the wire means that part is damaged, and must be replaced.

I gotta say, I admire your determination!

Also, I don't know if they are in your car or not, but the horns are usually in the same circuit as the cigarette lighter.

Great advice from Chris on using the ohm meter to look for "fried wires". He almoist always has some valuable "pearl" regarding automotive problems.

Rev

[PKRWUD]

Originally Posted by Rev

Great advice from Chris on using the ohm meter to look for "fried wires". He almoist always has some valuable "pearl" regarding automotive problems.

Rev

Heh, sometimes I just get lucky.