The engine won't fire up...is the timing off?

Stang_ROTY · 07-24-2001, 06:49 AM

My engine won't catch a idle and I do have spark (plugs are gapped at .0050 per MSD) and fuel (pressure is set at 40 psi). I am hoping it is just a timing problem. I remember my engine builder saying that he couldn't see the black lines I made with paint at the 0 and 10 degree marks on the damper with his timing light as I was inside the car turning the key. If he can't see the timing marks with the light than the timing must be off, right? Did he put the ditributor in wrong? Also, what is the SPOUT connector (sits right next to the TFI distributor module) and how does it effect engine operation?

------------------
Finally DONE!!
93 GT, 393 stroker w/ Edlebrock Performer heads and EFI, 30lb injectors, Dynamic Roller Mite C4, 8 pt cage, Sothside Machine bars & Sub-frames, 3.73's, '69 351W block w/SCAT crank.

07-24-2001, 07:40 AM

You need to go out and get yourself a Spout Plug (connector?) If I understand your comment correctly. The little plug that goes in there has something to do with setting the timing correct and when unplugged from the spout can make many a mustang idle very poorly. If it is missing, go to the Ford Dealer and get one if they even sell it seperate.

Rick 91GT · 07-24-2001, 07:51 AM

You need to bring the car back to TDC, then re-insert the distributor making sure the rotor is pointing at #1 on the cap. The Spout connector must be out when setting the timing, but start the motor with the plug in. If not you are seeing total advance all the time. I hope yor plugs are at .050

I'm sure that was just a typing error

Good luck sounds like that will be one healthy motor. Lets us know when you get the beast started.

------------------
Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

Stang_ROTY · 07-24-2001, 08:16 AM

Thanks for the advice guys. I'll take it. I do have the spout connector but it was plugged in at times and out at times. We were getting desperate. I alsi forgot to say that me collant sensor(the plug that "plugs" onto a screw on the driver's side of the manifold toward the front of the manifold ) was unplugged. Would that sensor being unplugged send a error to the CPU? thanks again!

withamc · 07-24-2001, 10:15 AM

All that sensor is for is the temp guage. When I rebuilt my engine I had a similar problem on start up. I ended up having the distributor 180* out. Take Rick 91GT's advice and bring the engine to TDC (0) and point your distributor rotor to #1 on the cap. If that won't start, rotate your engine one complete revolution, then pull the distibutor and rotate it so the rotor points to #1 and try to start it again. One of those should work. You checked all the stuff like fuel pressure, etc, right?

------------------
93 GT, CCM long block, GT40P heads, Crane 2031, 1.7 RR's, Moroso cold air, 73mm Vortech, 65mm TB, Cobra intake, 24# injectors, MSD 6AL, MAC GT40P headers, 2-1/2" BBK H-pipe (w/cats), Flowmasters, 3.55s, B&M Ripper shifter, Black Magic fan, Groundpounder LCA's, Comp subs
13.817@102.45 - 1/4

Stang_ROTY · 07-24-2001, 10:40 AM

Yes, I did check for fuel and spark. the TFI module was lighting a test light upon a ignition as was the injectors. The fuel is there also. Set it at 40. I'll tell my engine builder about the advice you all are giving me about the 180 out. Hopefully it will work. What about these sensors that are open on my pass. side. They are female connectors and one of the two actually matched identical to the driver side open sensor. These sensors I'm talking about are not for oil press. or temp or injectors, however they are on the harness. Also, I have a vacuum line coming from the gas tank that is pouring out fumes every time I tried to start the engine. What do I plug it into??

Stang_ROTY · 07-24-2001, 11:17 AM

Well, more bad news. I called my engine builder and he said that we tried to point the distributor at the #1 on the cap after TDC 3 times and it still was "dieseling" when I let the key go. I didn't realize he was doing it since I was inside the car. This sucks. Where do I go from here??

exgmguy · 07-24-2001, 03:10 PM

so the car does run or no?

Stang_ROTY · 07-24-2001, 08:48 PM

Nah, it ain't running. It won't even idle. However I did pick up the ACT and ECT sensors from the dealer today. Think they'll help??

byrnech · 07-24-2001, 08:58 PM

make sure that the firing order is the H.O. firing order and not the regular 302 order, just a thought.

smokedchevy · 07-25-2001, 02:39 AM

Byrnech brought up a good point. If I remember right, you must change the 351W firing order to a 302 if you install an aftermarket cam. What's your firing order?

------------------
92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters

Stang_ROTY · 07-25-2001, 06:55 AM

I'm using the 5.0 HO/5.8 firing order of 13726548. I'm calling Comp Cams today to make sure they came profile has that firing order also.

Stang_ROTY · 07-25-2001, 08:53 AM

The firing order on the cam is correct. I guess it's on to the next thing which is the ACT and ECT sensors. I bought them yesterday. Will instaling them help the engine run??

RB92GT · 07-25-2001, 08:48 PM

Just out of curiosity, when you try to start your car, is the starter cranking every time, or are you getting a strong clicking sound every now and then? My friend had the same problem, and it turned out the problem was his ignition module in the steering column. His car would attempt to turn over, and as soon as he released the key from the "start" position, it would die. If he slightly released the key from the "start" position to near the "on" position, it would stay running. If the key was released completely to return to the "on" position, the car would die.

-Ryan

Stang_ROTY · 07-25-2001, 09:57 PM

Ryan- Thanks for the advice but today the engine finally fired. I pluuged in my ACT and ECT sensor and re-connected a wire at he compute hanrness and it worked. But it won't idle. It dies the minute I back off the throttle. Thanks anyway!

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07-24-2001, 06:49 AM	#1
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	The engine won't fire up...is the timing off? My engine won't catch a idle and I do have spark (plugs are gapped at .0050 per MSD) and fuel (pressure is set at 40 psi). I am hoping it is just a timing problem. I remember my engine builder saying that he couldn't see the black lines I made with paint at the 0 and 10 degree marks on the damper with his timing light as I was inside the car turning the key. If he can't see the timing marks with the light than the timing must be off, right? Did he put the ditributor in wrong? Also, what is the SPOUT connector (sits right next to the TFI distributor module) and how does it effect engine operation? ------------------ Finally DONE!! 93 GT, 393 stroker w/ Edlebrock Performer heads and EFI, 30lb injectors, Dynamic Roller Mite C4, 8 pt cage, Sothside Machine bars & Sub-frames, 3.73's, '69 351W block w/SCAT crank.

07-24-2001, 07:40 AM	#2
stanglx347 Guest Posts: n/a	You need to go out and get yourself a Spout Plug (connector?) If I understand your comment correctly. The little plug that goes in there has something to do with setting the timing correct and when unplugged from the spout can make many a mustang idle very poorly. If it is missing, go to the Ford Dealer and get one if they even sell it seperate.

07-24-2001, 07:51 AM	#3
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	You need to bring the car back to TDC, then re-insert the distributor making sure the rotor is pointing at #1 on the cap. The Spout connector must be out when setting the timing, but start the motor with the plug in. If not you are seeing total advance all the time. I hope yor plugs are at .050 I'm sure that was just a typing error Good luck sounds like that will be one healthy motor. Lets us know when you get the beast started. ------------------ Check Out My Site 91GT,Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60" port matched to a 1262,Anderson N-61,24#,76mm C&L,Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes,2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe,2 1/2" cat back, No A/C or PS or emissions, 12" K&N Filter,RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air,Ron Davis Radiator,Full Suspension,S&W 8pt "X" brace,JAZ seats,3:73's,Welds..etc,4:30's and 31 splines coming very soon! FIRST TIME OUT 12.16@111 WHEELS-UP

07-24-2001, 08:16 AM	#4
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	Thanks for the advice guys. I'll take it. I do have the spout connector but it was plugged in at times and out at times. We were getting desperate. I alsi forgot to say that me collant sensor(the plug that "plugs" onto a screw on the driver's side of the manifold toward the front of the manifold ) was unplugged. Would that sensor being unplugged send a error to the CPU? thanks again!

07-24-2001, 10:15 AM	#5
withamc Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA Posts: 396	All that sensor is for is the temp guage. When I rebuilt my engine I had a similar problem on start up. I ended up having the distributor 180* out. Take Rick 91GT's advice and bring the engine to TDC (0) and point your distributor rotor to #1 on the cap. If that won't start, rotate your engine one complete revolution, then pull the distibutor and rotate it so the rotor points to #1 and try to start it again. One of those should work. You checked all the stuff like fuel pressure, etc, right? ------------------ 93 GT, CCM long block, GT40P heads, Crane 2031, 1.7 RR's, Moroso cold air, 73mm Vortech, 65mm TB, Cobra intake, 24# injectors, MSD 6AL, MAC GT40P headers, 2-1/2" BBK H-pipe (w/cats), Flowmasters, 3.55s, B&M Ripper shifter, Black Magic fan, Groundpounder LCA's, Comp subs 13.817@102.45 - 1/4

07-24-2001, 10:40 AM	#6
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	Yes, I did check for fuel and spark. the TFI module was lighting a test light upon a ignition as was the injectors. The fuel is there also. Set it at 40. I'll tell my engine builder about the advice you all are giving me about the 180 out. Hopefully it will work. What about these sensors that are open on my pass. side. They are female connectors and one of the two actually matched identical to the driver side open sensor. These sensors I'm talking about are not for oil press. or temp or injectors, however they are on the harness. Also, I have a vacuum line coming from the gas tank that is pouring out fumes every time I tried to start the engine. What do I plug it into??

07-24-2001, 11:17 AM	#7
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	Well, more bad news. I called my engine builder and he said that we tried to point the distributor at the #1 on the cap after TDC 3 times and it still was "dieseling" when I let the key go. I didn't realize he was doing it since I was inside the car. This sucks. Where do I go from here??

07-24-2001, 03:10 PM	#8
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	so the car does run or no?

07-24-2001, 08:48 PM	#9
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	Nah, it ain't running. It won't even idle. However I did pick up the ACT and ECT sensors from the dealer today. Think they'll help??

07-24-2001, 08:58 PM	#10
byrnech Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Anderson, TX. Posts: 166	make sure that the firing order is the H.O. firing order and not the regular 302 order, just a thought.

07-25-2001, 02:39 AM	#11
smokedchevy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: ventura,CA Posts: 438	Byrnech brought up a good point. If I remember right, you must change the 351W firing order to a 302 if you install an aftermarket cam. What's your firing order? ------------------ 92 GT, 4:10 gears, centerforce clutch, 6# powerdyne blower, bbk h-pipe, flowmasters

07-25-2001, 06:55 AM	#12
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	I'm using the 5.0 HO/5.8 firing order of 13726548. I'm calling Comp Cams today to make sure they came profile has that firing order also.

07-25-2001, 08:53 AM	#13
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	The firing order on the cam is correct. I guess it's on to the next thing which is the ACT and ECT sensors. I bought them yesterday. Will instaling them help the engine run??

07-25-2001, 08:48 PM	#14
RB92GT Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 13	Just out of curiosity, when you try to start your car, is the starter cranking every time, or are you getting a strong clicking sound every now and then? My friend had the same problem, and it turned out the problem was his ignition module in the steering column. His car would attempt to turn over, and as soon as he released the key from the "start" position, it would die. If he slightly released the key from the "start" position to near the "on" position, it would stay running. If the key was released completely to return to the "on" position, the car would die. -Ryan

07-25-2001, 09:57 PM	#15
Stang_ROTY Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Berkshire County - Massachusetts Posts: 735	Ryan- Thanks for the advice but today the engine finally fired. I pluuged in my ACT and ECT sensor and re-connected a wire at he compute hanrness and it worked. But it won't idle. It dies the minute I back off the throttle. Thanks anyway!