Finally A Run With Nitrous But Inconsistent? Whats Wrong With These Times???
 

Ok i finally made it to the track with the nitrous (80 shot)working good. I filled her up and went to the track tonight and ran 4 passes"ill mention three (missed a gear in one pass). My previous best run was a 14.2 at 98. Here are my times for the three runs in order!


60' 330 1/8 mph 1000 1/4 mph


1) 2.16 5.93 8.92 82.65 11.46 13.59 105.85


2) 2.3 6.2 9.3 80.5 11.8 14.0 104.69

3) 2.2 6.2 9.2 80.8 11.8 14.0 104.27


I am very happy with the first run- I had the nitrous turned on ands ready B4 each run. I pretty much punched it from 2nd gear on and the first run it hooked up after a little spin but felt great. The other two runs, I did not feel the pull like the first one. I knew the nitrous kicked in strong the first run, but the other two didnt feel as strong. WHY is this happening? IS it because there was more pressure build up in the first run? If so, is there a way to purge the system after every use of nitrous? Im happy with the 13.5, but didappointed with the 14.0's! Whats wrong? Thanks a lot for any replies.

Jim

You can get a purge valve to ensure there is no air in the lines.

I am not the most educated person on this site when it comes to cars, but from the looks of it, you have a traction problem. What kind of tires are you running? I know I was getting pretty dissapointed the day I ran with slicks and couldn't break into the 13's at our high elevation. I wasn't getting good 60' times. They were all in the 2.0's. Once I got it into the 1.81, I was able to pull off a 13.88. Once you get those first 60' down, then in my opinion you should be getting a lot better times. Until then, I doubt they will get much lower. Just my opinion from experience. Hope this helps.

Chris

Chris - what did you do to get your 60' times down with slicks? Did you change anything on your suspension?

Didn't do a thing to my suspension. I am actually running a completely stock suspension right now, right down to the bushings that came with the car 15yrs ago. I ran a total of 16 times that day, 14 of them on slicks. It was no more than 40-45* outside at the time. I ran about 12psi in the slicks, and on the 13.88 run I heated those slicks up better than I had all day. I had a buddy (who owned the slicks) stand off to the side where I could see him, and tell me to keep spinning them. When he felt there was decent smoke coming off of them, and that they were warmed up enough, he told me to roll out of the burnout. I have noticed that anytime I race with slicks, the more consistent the burnout, the more consistent the run. I was cutting 2.1's for the majority of my runs, a few 2.0's and then finally got it down into the 1.9's and then the 1.81. If you are running slicks, play with the air pressure, and work on the burnout. BTW, we're using the 26x8 MT ET's. Hope this helps.

Chris

Your times sound like your spinning the tires and not hooking. The first 60ft of the race is the most crucial. After that it gets easy. If you can cut a good 60ft your on your way to a good timeslip. Second of all, yes you can purge your nitrous after every use of it. I purge mine all the time and have had no problems. Third, what was your bottle pressure at..and what was the conditions like? I might be able to give you a better tuning advice for the weather. Weather plays a big role in tuning a nitrous car. For instances like this, Hot and muggy, you either have to take timing away, or add it..add fuel, take fuel away. It's all a guessing game.

one other thing what was your bottle pressure? it needs to stay between 950-1000 psi for maximum nitrous flow otherwise you will be dumping in too much fuel for the amount of nitrous being delivered if you don't have one get a gauge and a bottle heater pressure is critical you don't want to pull up next to a camaro you should smoke and hit the nitrous and have your car fall on it's face because it dumped in a ton of fuel and just a little nitrous because the bottle pressure was only 600psi. also did you regap your plugs after you put on the nitrous i usually recommened .035-.040 for nos.

I was running street tires with the normal psi in them. My suspension is totally stock. I wanted to stay away from the "extra" nitrous accessories. The temp was in the 70's with mid to high humidity (dont have the slip with me). I dont have a bottle pressure reader or fuel pressure gauge, so i dont know them. MY plugs are gapped at the right gap .035. It ran pretty good over all. But, I dont think it has to do with the tire pressure or temperature. My first run was the best, and it was the first one on the bottle. So im thinking it has to be the bottle pressure. How do i purge it each time? Can i turn the bottle off, and then on (would that matter?) I want to stay away from buying the heater, and pressure gauges (my wife would kill me). I know the nitrous was working a little bit the other two times cause my best ever B4 the NOS was 14.2 and that was last year. I did kick a camaro's *** on the 13.5 run though!

I am only guessing,but from your sig you need subframe connectors and drag radials,if you want sub 1.8 60's you also need to change the uppers and lowers and the stock springs,you were probably spinning like mad. also did you let it cool down between runs? if not the extra heat will KILL your times,Stangs dont like heat.....cool it down good between runs and work on the suspension and watch your 60's drop... good luck.

Those "extras" are very helpful....you should get them

Also look at your 60 foot times.....you were spinning more on you 2nd and 3rd runs....that's prob. a lot of it.

I doubt it was bottle pressure.

your 60ft and 330ft times are absolutely that cause of your inconsistent times. see how the 330ft slowed down by almost 3 tenths? I'm guessing your best run, it hooked up in 2nd gear and pulled hard right? and your other runs, you hit 2nd and it spun.

If you dont use slicks, or atleast dragradials, then you should not have your nitrous on in 1st gear. Its a waste of nitrous in 1st gear with street tires because all it does is spin. My suggestion would be to hit the switch about halfway through 2nd gear, and go from there.

But if you really want to see some good ET/mph's you are gonna need traction of some sort. Street tires and drag strips are not a fun mix, you'll go home dissappointed most of the time.

Chris_H, how were you launching on those slicks to get 2.0 60ft times? Dump the clutch at 3500-4000 and you'll have 1.7's easy.

Do your self a favor and ditch the street tires. Your ET's will drop Alot.

Times??
 

You definitely need to get a pressure guage for you nitrous bottle. Your wife probably won't kill you, as the guage is only $15-$20 and screws right onto the bottle with a T-connector, or under the hood by the nitrous solenoids. I guess this is a dry system you are running, kit#5115? You did retard your timing down to around 8 degrees BTDC before the nitrous run, right? Who installed the system? Did you? You can get a under the hood fuel pressure guage (again, fairly cheap...maybe $30??) that screws right into the fuel line on the passenger side of the engine compartment, where the stock Schraeder valve is. I don't remember the exact details because it's been a while since I've done it...but you can test your NOS system to make sure it is working properly and that your fuel system is boosting the fuel pressure up to the desired 80-85psi. The NOS techline can walk you through the test if you don't have the manual that came with the kit. The test instructions are in the manual if you still have that though. Do you still have your stock fuel pump? If you do, the stock pump doesn't flow enough volume to boost the fuel pressure up that high. Just some things to think about. Let us know if you figure this thing out.

I didnt spin hardly at all in 2nd gear (even when i felt the nitrous kick in)! I have a new theory! I think that the nitrous wasnt working at all during the other two runs, which is why they are 14 flat (what i should be rtunning with my mods, right?). I was on my way home tonight and hit the nitrous to see if i could feel it, and all i heard was a "click" when i punched it. It sounded like it came from right behind the toggle switch. Sounded like maybe dropping a penny on a pan or something. Anyways, maybe something is wrong with the system itself. Everything looks like it is still tight and the fuse isnt blown! I tested my fuel pressure two weeks ago and it was fine ( I have previous posts about that from then). People told me that i have "plenty" of fuel pressure and that stock fuel pumps should be plenty of fuel! So do you think you klnow what that "click" might be. I cant feel any pull at all now! :(

Thanks!

PS it is a 5115 kit and the timing is retarded to wher people said it should be! 10 i think it was! Brand new plugs a degree colder and gapped at .035!

Are you sure you still have some nitrous in the bottle? That click could be the solenoid. Maybe you have a slight leak somewhere and it all leaked out last night. Good Luck man - John

nitrous woes
 

The clicking was most likely the nitrous solenoid. Do you still have the manual that came with your kit? If it is kit#5115 from NOS then I could e-mail you the instruction manual. The manual has a couple of different ways to test your system, not to mention troubleshooting questions and answers. Give me your e-mail address if you need it. Did you install the nitrous kit yourself? Sounds like you need to go through your entire system to pinpoint your problem.

i had my mechanic who works from his own home garage install it- he knows what hes doing- I dont. I took the bottle out and weighed it- i still have 7-8 lbs left in it. I hooked it back up and opened the bottle and i heard the nitrous flow through the lines. I dont know whats up. I will call him and see if he has the manual still. what a pita! Simi, i will email you if i need the manual- i appreciate the offer.

thanks for all responses!

Can someone tell me how to purge the system each time you run?

purging
 

You should ask that mechanic if he used teflon paste or tape. If he knows what he's doing, then he should have known that you should not use the tape. It can clog up your solenoids. You should check out your nitrous filter (before the first solenoid). Unscrew it with a wrench and check to see if there is any debri in there and clean it out. You may want to unhook the nitrous line from the bottle & the tank and blow compressed air through it to make sure there is no blockage.
Is this the kit#5115? If so, you have a fuel pressure safety switch that is hooked up to your fuel line (where the Schreider valve is on the passenger side of the engine compartment). This switch detects if your fuel system is not supplying enough fuel "volume" to make the adequate boost in fuel pressure. If at any time during a nitrous run, your fuel pressure drops below 85-80psi., this safety switch will not allow the nitrous to go into your motor. It's a great safety feature which should never be bypassed. If your stock pump is still in your tank, than that is most likely your problem. You should upgrade to at least a 155lph intank pump, if not a 190lph intank pump. That should be sufficient for nitrous shots up to around 100hp. If you ever want more juice than that (like me!) you would have to install an additional external inline pump to boost the volume of fuel even more to mix with the additional nitrous.
You really don't need to purge the system. Let alone, after every run. The little bit of air that is in the 14-20 inches of the braided nitrous line, between the NOS solenoids and the throttle body is the only place that "regular" air can collect. I doubt you will feel a difference between a non-purged run and a purged run. But that doesn't mean don't get one. I just don't think that is your problem. Although purge valves do look cool as hell! I'll be getting one eventually, but not so much for the performance gains. LOL. Let us know the outcome.

I asked an NOS rep about the fuel pump matter with the #5115 kit which is the one i have. NOS says that the stock fuel pump (in good working order) is fine for the 75-100hp settings. They also said that a 255lph intake pump is enough to support the 175shot which is the highest you can take this kit without doing other mods to the kit besides the jets and shim.

I would also suggest asking your mechanic if he used teflon tape on the fittings. It says specifically in the directions to use only a teflon based paste on all pipe fittings and NOTHING on the AN fittings.

Also make sure that your WOT microswitch is being depressed when the car is floored. Its kind of a cheap setup with that kit (if thats the one you have) and it seems like it could be moved easily, and therefore cause the system not to work.

ok i called my mechanic and talked to him for a brief moment (he was running ou t the door). He mentioned what you all had said. He did NOT use teflon tape. He said to check the filter and the line that runs to the throttle body. I un screwed the line to the manifold first and saw nothing in there clogging it up. I then unscrewed the line from the bottle to the solenoid (is this where the filter is?) when i did this, i could hear the nitrous coming out and it turned to ice for a second (pretty cool). Anyways, I didnt see any screen or filter (is it an actual screen?) I hooked it back up after. I drove it and turned the switch on and then punched it in third gear and felt nothing again. I then tried again and instead of starting witht the toggle on, I punched it and THEN flipped the switch and did feel the NOS kick in. I only kept it floored for like a second. ( I dont want to waste everything thats in the bottle just to diagnose).

Anyways, did i disconnect the right line (from the bottle to the solenoid) for the filter? It looked just like a regular line to me!

I really dont think its the fuel pump, but then again what do i know.

ok i found ther screen and it was clear of any debris. I went and tried it again and felt nothing. i am thinking that i need to buy a "bottle pressure gauge?" IF the pressure becomes low (according to the gauge), how do i increase the pressure anyways? I hope this thing will work soon as the summer is coming to an end.

I have the NOS 5115 dry kit set to 75hp. When i instaled the kit i went from 14.2 to 13.2 on street radials with no suspension mods. I dint have the gears or subframes then. If you have he 5115 kit, where i the spray nozzle installed? Make shure the nozzle is spraing straight in the direction of the incomig air flow. You could use a DMM set to ohms to test your pressure switch. You dont really need to purge. I just arm the system and do a quick burst of nitrous on the burnout before my first run. That will get all of the air out of the line. Remember never to activate the nitrous below 3000 rpm.

if the bottle pressure is low you can only raise it by heating the bottle. to see if you are getting nitrous to the intake with the car off just disconnect the nitrous line from the nozzle and turn all the switches on then hold the line away from yourself or anything else and engage the throttle wide open by hand if it sprays it is probably a fuel delivery problem so i would start checking the vacuum lines to the fuel pressure switch and electrical connections to the second solenoid.

and don't ever use it in 5th gear(long story)

Are you not sure which kit you have? I would like to know to help you out a little easier.

I have an idea to possibly help.

First, disconnect the nitrous line from the throttle body. Then bypass the fuel pressure safety switch by just connecting the 2 wires together. Then have someone sit in the driver's seat with the key on (car off) and the toggle switch ON. Then hold the nitrous line (with a rag, cause it will be cold) pointing away from you and the car, and tell your helper to floor it. This should activate the system and spray nitrous through the line. This will let you know if the line is clogged or not. If you are unsure, then just remove the bottle from your trunk and then briefly open the valve to compare the flow of nitrous. It will be a slightly different amount because of the orifice size, but you will be able to tell if enough is coming into the engine.


Bottle pressure will normally go down as the bottle starts to get empty. But also, temperature has ALOT to do with the pressure. If the bottle is cold, then the pressure will go down, and therefore it wont spray as hard and hp will decrease.

I was actually talking to a shop owner today about this and he said he's actually seen bottle pressure get upwards to 1500psi with only 2-3lbs of nitrous in the bottle. It was just that hot.
Just think of a pressure cooker: higher pressure=hotter food:D

Big Black- You say to disconnect the line directly from the bottle in the trunk?, then disconnect the line that goes to the manifold, then floor it to see if it works? I want to be sure before i try it! your saying that it should NOt spray right? if it does, then check the vacuum lines?

fiveoh i just saw your reply after i responded. it is the 5115 kit. I am going to try it now to see what happens. hope i dont blow up!

no disconnect it from the nozzle in the throttlebody then floor it but make sure the nozzle isn't pointed at anything. and that would be bigblock not bigblack.

Sorry Big BLOCK!
I did exactly as mentioned above. I connected the two wires. unscrewed the line to the TB. Turn accessories on and nitrous switch on. punched it and nothing came out at all! I then reconnected everything and went to the trunk. went to un screw the line after turning the bottle to off and could feel a TON of pressure coming out (turned to ice quick). I then just tightened it right back up.
Anyone live in Rochester NY that can come over and fix this piece of crap??????

Well there is either a wiring problem, your WOT switch isn't being triggered, or one of your solenoids has gone bad.

I'd first check the WOT microswitch as it would be the easiest to fix.
Just remove your air inlet hose to the throttle body, then you'll see the switch mounted to a bent arm thats bolted to the lower right TB bolt. Have someone hold the throttle all the way open (with the car off ofcourse) or just put a block of wood to hold the pedal down, and then check to make sure the linkage underneath the throttle body is hitting the switch all the way. If not, then just adjust the arm until the switch makes a click noise right when you are at WOT (wide open throttle).

Check this first and make sure its clicking.

Oh, and do you have a testlight? If the WOT is being depressed at WOT, and you dont have a testlight, then you'll need one if you wanna get it working.

well when i checked for nitrous spraying out from the line to the TB I noticed that it was touching the WOT microswitch, BUT i did not hear a clicking sound. Does that mean i need to adjust the switch (even though it is making contact already)? I bought this kit like a few months ago. Do you think the solenoid could go bad this early, and if so, any chance Jegs would cover the replacement cost? What a pain. What should be my next step (if I can get a light to test it)? thanks for everyones help in this pita matter!

neone live in rochester ny?

push the WOT microswitch by hand and listen for the click, if you dont hear that when it is floored, then that is your problem.

Try the same testing method as before, but disconnect the 2 terminals from the WOT switch. Turn the arming switch on with your key on while someone is holding the nitrous line that has been disconnected from the intake tube and see if it works then.

ok, i pushed the microswitch by hand and heard the click coming from the switch itself when it was depressed. i also heard like a high pitch beep sound quickly right after. then i could tell that nitrous was going through the lines, but not out of the line that leads to the TB. I clicked it a few times and heard the nitrous flowing through the lines but again not coming out into the air (where I had the line pointed) i heard clicks coming from the solenoids as well i think. Plus no nitrous sprayed out. i then disconnected the two wires leading to the switch and activated it by the toggle and nothing happened at all again. this tells me that the switch is ok, right? IT must be a solenoid, cause the lines are clear of debris. If it is, this is a piece of crap being a few months old!

i know it may seem like a dumb question, but do you have the bottle valve open while you are trying all of this?

Did you make sure that your TB linkage is activating the WOT switch?

This is starting to be a little diffucult to help with like this. I'd take it to your mechanic, tell him what all you've tested and go from there.

yes the bottle was open during testing. ill try and call him. i think he willl still be out of town . thanks for everyones help.:)