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-   -   Flywheel turns but motor doesn't!!! Help!!! (http://forums.mustangworks.com/showthread.php?t=39471)

Stangbanger86 10-04-2003 11:50 AM

Flywheel turns but motor doesn't!!! Help!!!
 
Allright, I thought i had a starter problem on my car so I finally got around to changing it. Well when i cranked it, it made the same noise. Like the starter is spinning but the motor wasn't. I was pissed, it was late, and I had to be up early the next morning. So I went over in my head what it could be. I thought maybe the flywheel teeth were worn. So I got under the car, found a place to look at the flywheel and watched it turn as my buddy cranked it. What the hell can it be a cracked flywheel?? Well I'm ready to pull everything off and change it, could it be anything else!!!!!!!! Help!!!!!!!!!!

Dark_5.0 10-04-2003 12:16 PM

Congratulations you broke the center out of your flywheel.

I did the same thing 2 years ago.

Stangbanger86 10-04-2003 12:35 PM

Thanks, I just put a clutch in 4 months ago now I gotta strip it all back off again! At least the bolts should be a little bit easier to break now. One more question, will it be allright to use my current clutch on a new flywheel, or will it be better to replace it so everything is smooth???

SaleenGTS 10-04-2003 03:26 PM

No, you can use your current clutch if it is still good. Make sure the fluwheel is good, you might have to have it turned...I did once with a new one.

Rev 10-04-2003 03:49 PM

Or heaven forbid......
 
Or heaven forbid, it could be a broken crank shaft (unlikely). But if the flywheel is turning and the snout of the crank is not..............then something in-between is broken.

Rev

Stangbanger86 10-04-2003 06:48 PM

Well I just got done pulling everything off. The only thing I see is the inner face of the flywheel about half an inch is worn down. I hope this is my problem. If it is, how would that affect it???

b055 10-05-2003 09:05 PM

can u take pics.. that would help...

Stangbanger86 10-05-2003 09:10 PM

Nevermind about the flywheel, I looked on the internet for pics to compare them with mine and they looke the same. I couldn't figure out what it was. I just got done putting everthing back together and it's still doing the same thing. Help!!1

b055 10-05-2003 10:31 PM

maybe a broke crank.. sounds bad..

Stangbanger86 10-05-2003 11:45 PM

That's what I was thinking but we push started it the other day and it drove fine with no vibration. Also when I had the trans and clutch out the flywheel moved when we tuned the crank pulley??????? I'm lost!!

QuantumMotorsports 10-05-2003 11:57 PM

Why is it that you think the engine is not turning? Because the accesory belt doesn't turn?

Stangbanger86 10-06-2003 12:02 AM

Normally when the crank turns the pulley and harmonic damper turn also, right???

Beanhead 10-06-2003 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stangbanger86
Normally when the crank turns the pulley and harmonic damper turn also, right???
This I can answer definitively (just replaced my harmonic balancer on Friday), YES, when the crank turns, the pully and harmonic balancer MUST also turn.

Beanhead 10-06-2003 09:02 AM

Have someone watch under the hood while you try and start the car, and let us know what they see moving.

BilLster 10-06-2003 09:41 AM

maybe the starter isnt shimmed right and not engaging the flywhell proper so it isnt turning the flywheel fast enought to start it . the old one might of been missing the shim and when you replaced it you would of still been missing the shims.

how fast was the flywheel turning when you watched it ?

Is the battery fully charged?

hope you find the problem.

Stangbanger86 10-06-2003 07:27 PM

When I'm looking at the engine when it's being cranked nothing moves, not even the slightest twitch. The flywheel is moving pretty fast when it is cranked, fast even that the crank and some accessories should move, which they aren't. I doubt its the shims for the starter because it was my original starter!! It had over 117,000 on it, that is alot of cranks. And it never skipped a beat before.

rwhite65 10-06-2003 08:20 PM

ok, something is being missed here. If u push started the car, and it ran fine, then u can rule out the crank being broke. If the flywheel is moving but the front accesories are not, it has to be at the flywheel, somewhere. Does it sound like it usually did when the starter engaged?

Your original post says you changed the starter...did u rebuild the original or replace it with another unit? As many details as possible.
Ryan

Stangbanger86 10-06-2003 09:51 PM

After I started to have the problem, I thought that the starter was bad so I replaced it with a new unit.

QuantumMotorsports 10-06-2003 09:57 PM

Hey guys, I think I've got an idea, honestly, it sounds to me like something isn't quite right here, but it's possible that the ring gear (which gets pressed onto the flywheel) is somehow either loose or broken and is spinning, but the flywheel isn't spinning. That way, you can push start the car, but the teeth turn around the flywheel and don't turn the flywheel or crank. What do you think?

Beanhead 10-06-2003 09:57 PM

Re: Flywheel turns but motor doesn't!!! Help!!!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Stangbanger86
Allright, I thought i had a starter problem on my car so I finally got around to changing it. Well when i cranked it, it made the same noise. Like the starter is spinning but the motor wasn't. I was pissed, it was late, and I had to be up early the next morning. So I went over in my head what it could be. I thought maybe the flywheel teeth were worn. So I got under the car, found a place to look at the flywheel and watched it turn as my buddy cranked it. What the hell can it be a cracked flywheel?? Well I'm ready to pull everything off and change it, could it be anything else!!!!!!!! Help!!!!!!!!!!
Ok, where exactly did you "find a place to look at the flywheel"?

Beanhead 10-06-2003 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuantumMotorsports
Hey guys, I think I've got an idea, honestly, it sounds to me like something isn't quite right here, but it's possible that the ring gear (which gets pressed onto the flywheel) is somehow either loose or broken and is spinning, but the flywheel isn't spinning. That way, you can push start the car, but the teeth turn around the flywheel and don't turn the flywheel or crank. What do you think?
Yeah, something isn't quite right. I agree. The flywheel cannot spin freely without turning the crank (it is bolted directly to it by six bolts), thus turning the harmonic balancer, and thus, the serpentine belt. The only way the flywheel could "spin" "freely", is if it broke off the crank, and I HIGHLY doubt that is the case here, even if it DID break off the crank, it couldn't really "spin", for it would have no real axis to spin about, and it would be knocked out of alignment from the starter gear anyway. It would probably make the most horrendous noise too.

b055 10-06-2003 10:45 PM

ok so accessories are not moving?

flywheel turning over freely when u hit the starter?

can be push started...


something definateally fishy!

Rev 10-06-2003 11:24 PM

Look in the inspection plate
 
Look in the inspection plate at the flywheel itself and at the ring gear as someone cranks the motor to see if both are turning. That should tell you about the flywheel end of the crank.

Also look at the snout of the crank shaft and the damper at the front as someone cranks it. That will tell you if the damper (balancer) is slipping.

Something somewhere is slipping.

Rev

HotRoddin 10-06-2003 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by b055
ok so accessories are not moving?
Did you put the key in the harmonic balancer?

Stangbanger86 10-07-2003 08:31 AM

Hey QuantumMotorsports, I checked the flywheel out and nothing is broken or loose. My friend that works and the dealership is going to come help me later tonight on it and hopefully we can find this out, he even seemed puzzled about it. Oh well, Wish us luck, we are going to need it!

Falcons Talon 10-07-2003 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by QuantumMotorsports
Hey guys, I think I've got an idea, honestly, it sounds to me like something isn't quite right here, but it's possible that the ring gear (which gets pressed onto the flywheel) is somehow either loose or broken and is spinning, but the flywheel isn't spinning. That way, you can push start the car, but the teeth turn around the flywheel and don't turn the flywheel or crank. What do you think?
That makes sense to me, but what in the world could have cracked or loosened the ring gear? I had to replace one in my 84 HO and It wouldn't bidge until we drilled holes on either side of it and broke it off. Maybe it has a hairline crack? Are you seeng the crank turn or the teeth of the ring gear turn? Maybe it's still too tight to budge it by hand, but when you put the stress of the engine against the starter, it gives...

My money is on the ring gear.

BilLster 10-07-2003 10:04 AM

another vote for ring gear but i thought he tore everything down and looked at the flywheel ?

silver_pilate 10-07-2003 10:47 AM

A crack in the ring gear could possibly be missed if he wasn't looking for it. The ring will still grip the flywheel pretty tight, just not tight enough to turn the engine over without slipping. That's my bet.

--nathan

QuantumMotorsports 10-07-2003 11:16 AM

Either that or the key in the balancer, but then the accesories wouldn't turn after push starting the car either, check that out man. Check to see if the fan and alternator are turning when the car runs when you push start it.

QuantumMotorsports 10-07-2003 11:17 AM

No, nevermind, cause the car would probably start if just the balancer wasn't turning. I'm betting something's up with the ring gear on the flywheel.

Stangbanger86 10-07-2003 06:38 PM

That could be a good possiblity but the darn flywheel looked good to me, I even grabbed my hands around the teeth and turned it and everything was moving.

Stangbanger86 10-07-2003 07:20 PM

Allright guys, here is what I found out. When you try to crank it the flywheel teeth turn but the pressure plate doens't. If the plate is bolted to the flywheel, that would mean the teeth are moving around the flywheel and basically I'll need a new one. Anybody agree????

HotRoddin 10-08-2003 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stangbanger86
Allright guys, here is what I found out. When you try to crank it the flywheel teeth turn but the pressure plate doens't. If the plate is bolted to the flywheel, that would mean the teeth are moving around the flywheel and basically I'll need a new one. Anybody agree????
Makes perfect sense to me ... doubt you could weld the ring back on because its probably hardened. I'd think about taking it back to where you bought it and asking them why it came lose ! I have seen a press on ring crack, and when it does that it will no longer hold.

Beanhead 10-08-2003 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HotRoddin
Makes perfect sense to me ... doubt you could weld the ring back on because its probably hardened. I'd think about taking it back to where you bought it and asking them why it came lose ! I have seen a press on ring crack, and when it does that it will no longer hold.
WTF?!!!

How is that even possible? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the flywheel is one massive piece of metal, so there's no way for just the "teeth" to spin around it.......

BilLster 10-08-2003 01:57 PM

no on some cast flywheel steel teeth are pressed on to the outer edge of the flywheel so the started gear doesnt chew up the cast material..


I have a aluminum flywheel that has a bolted on ring gear in the basement,

Beanhead 10-08-2003 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BilLster
no on some cast flywheel steel teeth are pressed on to the outer edge of the flywheel so the started gear doesnt chew up the cast material..


I have a aluminum flywheel that has a bolted on ring gear in the basement,

Wow... News to me... Learned something new through this dudes misfortune though...

Thanks :)

silver_pilate 10-08-2003 02:40 PM

Yeah, when we were building my engine, I watched a guy in his shop mount one. He uses a torch to heat up the ring. When it gets red hot, it expands enough to just fit on the flywheel, and he hammers it down. It cools and mates itself to the wheel. I don't know that the steel is hardened, just harder than the cast wheel. Heating up a hardened steel past a certain point like they have to do when mounting the ring will negate the heat treatment.

--nathan

Stangbanger86 10-09-2003 07:46 AM

Cool, thanks alot for the help. I'm about to start stripping the car back down again. Hopefully I should have an aluminum flywheel to put on for Sunday. Thanks alot. BTW, I won the sport compact class at the track last night!! Woohoo!!!

Falcons Talon 11-11-2003 01:33 PM

SOoooooo...

Was it the Ring Gear?

silver_pilate 11-11-2003 01:55 PM

Yep.

--Nathan

Stangbanger86 11-11-2003 07:51 PM

Yeah it was the ring gear. The first time I took everything off, it wouldn't move. The second time, it just spun around the flywheel. I got a good Ford Racing stock replacement flywheel for about $90.00 From 5.0 restoration. Man that company rocks!! Everything I have ordered from them arrives fast and quicker than you would expect, that's great compared to some other companies. I highly recommend them to everyone. If you havent ordered from them, Then what the hell is wrong with you!!


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