GT-40 irons - Page 2

red82gt · 06-06-2001, 05:04 PM

Depends a lot on the rest of your combo.
I'd guess that jeff probably is runnig a very low set of gears and a camshaft of some secret specs and his motor probably rarely goes below 5000rpm's for him the RPM would likely be better.
Just my .02

[This message has been edited by red82gt (edited 06-06-2001).]

95mustanggt · 06-06-2001, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by red82gt:
Depends a lot on the rest of your combo.
I'd guess that jeff probably is runnig a very low set of gears and a camshaft of some secret specs and his motor probably rarely goes below 5000rpm's for him the RPM would likely be better.
Just my .02

Thanks red. That makes sense, I should have thought about it a bit more.

06-06-2001, 06:47 PM

I'm hoping it was a change for the better, but that still remains to be seen. It definitely pulls better above 6200 though. The GT-40 just didn't have enough margin to cover the heads for what I'm doing.

If the original poster is still interested in regular GT-40 irons, I've got someone who's selling a set of bare castings. They were run on the dyno once, but then the guy opted for GT-40P's instead (he's an SCCA A-Sedan racer). Contact me through email if you're interested.

------------------
Jeff Chambers
T/S #3
11.611 Seconds/116.7 MPH
Chambers Racing Team

RobertD · 06-06-2001, 08:45 PM

Well thanks alot for all of your information. You really sold me on the 40P's. That was a great discussion, I was even considering the Edelbrocks! I did do a little research (all week!) and I agree that the 40p's have the flow numbers where I need them. I'll let everyone know how it goes...

Meanwhile, I'll break out the credit card and start ordering

------------------
Robert
91GT; 88 ASC McLaren #709

90dpscoupe · 06-07-2001, 12:45 AM

Chill out guys, but i agree with unit usually, cuz he does know alot, but both you guys pretty much summed it up, so lets be nice

, but im sure unit knows from some experience, not everybody has the same opinion, no matter what knowledge, or how much of it.

95mustanggt · 06-07-2001, 08:40 AM

I agree with 90 on this one. Lighten up a little guys.

Unit may have a harsh word to say on the occaisional thread, but I think you're been a little hard on him. I trust what Unit says. Every post that I have read from him agrees with the knowledge and experience that I have gained elsewhere.

He's a valueble member here and contributes alot. I find your comments disrespectful to such a senior member, especially when he's backed up by a very knowledgable member like jeff chambers.

Just my thoughts I guess...

89 Cobra LX · 06-07-2001, 01:03 PM

This topic is perfect timing. About 2 months ago I purchased a 302 GT-40p long-block from Excessive Motorsport and I will never do business with them again. The Ford production block came with "stage 2" ported GT-40ps, a Wolverine Cam (5110), and stock rail rockers. This combo is supposedly good for 325 horsepower. I added 1.6 roller rockers, a Cobra intake, fuel pressure regulator and 24lb injectors thinking I would have an honest 325 horsepower.

Last week I went to the dyno and produced a peak of 200 rear-wheel horsepower @4500 RPM (my initial pull resulted in 190 peak HP, by tweaking with the fuel pressure we gained 10 HP). This was not a Dynojet, but a Mustang Dynomometer. The dyno-guy advised me this is probably the most accurate dyno currently on the market and instead of the usual 15-20 percent loss in power he has to adjust by 30-31 percent. This means my motor peaked at about 260-265 horsepower. This is 70 horsepower less than the motor was advertised to make, talk about being sick to my stomach. The 24lb injectors are way too much for the motor. Even with the regulator turned down as low as it would go, my air-to-fuel ratio was down in the 12.2 range.

Excessive Motorsport is telling me something's wrong with my set-up (70 HP in the set-up on a naturally-aspirated fuel-injected 302?... my *** ) I'll tell you what I think is wrong with the set-up, it's the heads. There is no way I should be getting peak power at 4500 RPM with the intake and cam I've got.

I'm tempted to slap a set of aluminum heads on the motor and see how much difference it will make, but I've already invested so much this won't happen. What I am going to do is switch back to the 19lb injectors and add an MSD ignition. I'm hoping to gain another 20 HP at the rear wheels (this would put the motor in the 290 HP range). This isn't great, but I've got to do something to gain some more power. I'm running with all of the standard bolt-ons (headers, off-road pipe, flowmasters, 65mm T-body, 73mm MAF, pulleys and 14 degrees timing)

Can someone help me? How can I gain 70 HP in the set-up? Is there some magic dial I need to turn?

Thanks - Eric

95mustanggt · 06-07-2001, 03:50 PM

190 HP at the rear wheels???

Isn't that about what a stock 5.0L puts out?

Something is wrong. Have you been to the track? A quick run will tell you if there is a problem with the dyno.

Otherwise, I can't help with the combo info sorry man.

NO SLO PK · 06-07-2001, 04:35 PM

Hey Cobra, a 12.2:1 A/F ratio might be okay for forced induction, but a little too rich for n/a. I don't think you'll gain 70 hp by resetting the A/F, but it would be step in the right direction.

------------------
Russ L
'91 LX
Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

89 Cobra LX · 06-07-2001, 05:07 PM

I haven't been to the track, but I can tell you a fairly stock 2000 GT with gears pulled away from me in the upper RPMs. Those make 260 HP from the factory......

Skyman · 06-07-2001, 07:32 PM

Evil stang, where have you learned everything? Most people do learn from reading and book other peoples research etc. There is no way if you spent the rest of your life researching you could learn the info you can easily gain from others research. Hands on knowledge is good for 10-20% at most. Everyone w/ lots of hands on knowledge doensn't know **** from experience. I know this because I have seen it time after time. Who knows more in this whole town about building performance engines? Sorry to brag, but its me, and I have hardly any hands on exp.

Anyways, you with the slow GT40P headed motor, its not the heads. You see people trapping 105-115mph with these heads and more, you need to look into other details. What are your cam specs, whats your compressionn, do a leak down test, etc etc, make sure your timiing is really where its at. Is your balancer right. Your car is making stock power and its not the heads.

Skyler

------------------
-1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows.
12.55@107mph
50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added.

Mr 5 0 · 06-07-2001, 07:59 PM

91evilstang:

I deleted your post addressed to Unit 5302.

Use e-mail for lectures, not the tech forum.

Look, I'm well aware that Unit is sometimes too quick with the insults when he disagrees (and he has admitted this before) but he's also fairly knowledgable and quite passionate about performance, which we admire here.

Beside all that, Francismaximus maintained his cool and handled his end of the discussion quite well, in my opinion, and along with the input of Jeff Chambers and a few others, the thread turned to be helpful to Robert as well as to others interested in head selection, which is always a big decision as they are at the heart of performance.

Again, my advice to everyone using this forum is to keep it tech, keep it civil, skip the name-calling and if you must lecture and attack, save it for personal e-mail, please.

Unit 5302 · 06-07-2001, 08:03 PM

Where did I ever say I knew it all? Sorry if I've been on this board learning and helping for the last couple years answering questions from how to change O2 sensors to how does a supercharger work?

If you think I've never had an intake off a car, swapped exhaust, engines, rear ends, rebuilt auto overdrive trannies, fwd, rwd, or done bodywork, your wrong. I've got the dirty *** clothes hanging in my closet right now... Not the dirty dirty dirty and torn shredded, ones. Those go to the garbage can. LOL.

I was rebuilding auto overdrive tranny's when I was 18. It wasn't fun, and I certainly didn't do it because it was my job. But I did get the job done. I've owned 8 cars. 5 Mustang's, everywhere from a 77 Mustang II with 180k on it, to a Dodge Shitow. Have I ever swapped rod bearings? Please refer to last car I mentioned. Question answered.

I didn't see myself being an *** before somebody implied I didn't know what I was talking about. So I posted the flow numbers, posted links to where I got them, posted my research, posted why, and told the person who said I didn't know what I was talking about to jump in a lake.

I'll be honest with you. I don't like working on cars. I'm tired of it. The only reason I continue to do so is I don't like calling the Ford dealer and asking how much, only to find out ever repair is $500

. My daily driver is what I have. If it breaks, I have a deadline to fix it. Gotta be working. I never had it easy, my first car was a 1977 Mustang II Fastback 302 V-8 C4 that sat in our yard for 3 years before I got it. It had 170k on it, and I put up the money to fix it up and get it onto the road. I worked my *** off to get my first 88GT. When the clutch and waterpump took a dump less than a week after I bought it, I was the one under the damn thing wrenching. When I got faulty ujoints that took out my driveshaft, blew my tranny case, busted up my cats, broke a chunk out of my engine block, broke my motor mounts, shot my starter off, and generally took my entire driveline out, who do you think was under the thing? That's right, I was.

Everybody wants to come up and accuse me of not knowing anything. Not having any real world experiance. Never modding a car. Never working on a car. Have I read magazines? Yep, had a few subscriptions for a while. What did I take away from them? Basic theory of operation, mostly. What have I learned from being on the Mustangworks? I have access to information about 1000's of members cars, their mods, their successes and failures. Their performance, combos and tons of other info. There is a ton of awesome people on this board. If you think you or I will EVER know as much as the collective knowledge of the pro's on this board, your nuts.

There are also a few 10-20-30-40 post fly by night people who come in here not really knowing the real deal. They know their buddy got this car into this time, or their buddy who works out of his garage says this or that.

Here I like knowing I have 13,875 buddies that I can ask questions of. I don't have the umpteen millions of dollars to do every single one of those combos. Do you? If you do, that's great and I'm envious, I wish I did. Instead I have to rely on what I've personally seen, and the information that my friends, and others have posted that they have seen or done. My car isn't modded all to hell right now, I plan on getting something else as soon as I can afford it. It'll still run it's 13's on a good day, 14's on a bad one needing a tune.

It doens't take an expert to tell people .600 lift with stock heads isn't a good idea. Or that stock intakes on 347 strokers isn't gonna do real well.

When I post that and I have somebody right after me posting that I don't know what I'm talking about, that his 87 GT with S/D has an X cam and it goes to beat all hell with stock heads, I get defensive. Not so much because he is contridicting me, it's because he is wrong, and now he's telling another member to go and make a stupid mod, waste his money, and get disappointed. That really pisses me off.

Every time I buy a car I ask what the owner has done to it. Not cause I care what he's fixed. It's cause I want to go back and fix it right. So many people who work in the auto industy, or are mechanics just have NO CLUE. I speak of this from PERSONAL experiance. Clutch specialists who forget half your bellhousing bolts, ASE certified tech's who have never done a brake job, mechanics who can't put brakes back on right. I have personally dealt with these instances. So when I come across as harsh, it's generally because I have some real world knowledge to back my position up, and I feel I have been directly attacked, and the person attacking me stands against the great majority of information that I have learned, be it HANDS ON, or FROM THE RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD's hands and eyes.

Later,
Kell

Unit 5302 · 06-07-2001, 08:09 PM

Mr 5.0 beat me, so did Skyman, LOL.

Francismaximus · 06-08-2001, 11:42 PM

Unit I take offence from you at at all I know my capabilitles and my limits. I a esentially a ford master tech 4 classes away baby. Im only 32. I started for ford at the age 0f 23 was an a tech by 26 making over 60grand. Do I have an ego yes. Do I spew it all aver and berate people no. I have learned from guys like you and from 16 year olds with new and good ideas. My whole point was that it is my belief that untimatly the GT-40 irons will make the most power in theend after all the porting is done said. Its just a better design. THe p's are and always will be a comprimise made by ford to promote good low velocity and torque. Yeah you can cam it right and gear it right and go 12's great. ANd yeah its a great street head. Nice low end punch I love it. Now toss in a b303 or x303 cam and spin that suka to 6000 grand with 4.10's 4.30's(don;t know why but people do. Your 1.45 exaust valve is gonna lose out all the time. Also waht is tha small valve gonna do when you use nitrous or a supercharger? Probably hold you back. (just my therory no facts here) P's to me are just fords way of emtying hte parts bins and making for money they got licky that they work sdo well thats all. The cobra gt-40s are even better smaller combustion chamber more compression. I guess untimatlity it all comes to needs, money expectations, opnion. At least we aint fighting over whats better Iroc's or mustangs. GOd I hatd that one. Peace be with you man. Your comments just made me go learn more. I gave up on heads and stuff and just bolted on a charger. I hope we can all agrees on "no replacement for didplacement" If I cant grow my 5.0 I'll just cram the air in then. Besides I am of the opinion now that spending 4K on a comeplet s/c set up and tuning it right is much more cost effective then? "what cam do I need waht heads? what throttle body? what shorty. Screw it. Force in 8# of boost and have fun!! Enjoy it! Oh and by the way I could of scored a set of port and polish GT-40 irons with 1.6 rockers for 400$ Research is a wonder full thing.

------------------

93CobraR · 06-08-2001, 11:48 PM

I picked my GT-40's up for $300. They are working really good for me now. I could have got the P's but then I would have to change my headers. Check out my sig....

------------------
87 GT, 4 inch cowl hood,17x9 Cobra R's/255/45's,GT-40 heads,Crane 2031, Edelbrock intake, long tubes headers,h-pipe,Flows,BBK cold air, Mass air,70mm MAF, 1.7's, 1" spacer,underdrive pulleys,Pro 5.0, King Cobra, Adj. fuel Reg., Lakewood Lift Bars,50/50's,subframes, 4.10's.
Best time 12.759
Best MPH 106.79
Best 60' 1.695

Visit my site at:
http://www.geocities.com/cobrar93_2000/MyPage.html

jimberg · 06-09-2001, 12:29 AM

This man needs TFS TW heads. So there.

------------------
351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible

[This message has been edited by jimberg (edited 06-09-2001).]

Unit 5302 · 06-09-2001, 12:40 AM

I'd certainly agree with the TFS TW heads being the best aluminum head for your money, and the street, on the market.

Great flow, down low, right to the top. Pretty small combustion chambers, runner size that match's well to a worked 5.0 or bigger.

I've seen them as cheap as $900/set.

As far as once they are ported and maxxed out, that's another story between the iron's and the p's. I would assume you could hog them both out and put bigger valves in the P's, not sure what it all winds up being at max. I think if all that work is going to be done, most stangers would be better off picking up a set of the TFS TW heads. Were talking a killer flow curve, and a max flow of above 240cfm, stock! Even wigged GT-40, or GT-40p's would be hard pressed to match (If they even could). I saw a set of milled ported GT40P's on Ebay go for $500, brand spanking new. Complete. There are a couple sets of used GT-40 irons on there for around $400 right now I think.

If I were to go with forced induction, I'd take the GT-40 iron and it's 65.5cc combustion chamber. That size keeps the CR a little lower. When you are running an iron head, keeping the CR lower can pay dividends in reliability, and longevity.

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06-06-2001, 05:04 PM	#21
red82gt Sober voice of Reason Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Kelowna, B.C., Canada Posts: 1,514	Depends a lot on the rest of your combo. I'd guess that jeff probably is runnig a very low set of gears and a camshaft of some secret specs and his motor probably rarely goes below 5000rpm's for him the RPM would likely be better. Just my .02 [This message has been edited by red82gt (edited 06-06-2001).]

06-06-2001, 06:47 PM	#23
jchambers Guest Posts: n/a	I'm hoping it was a change for the better, but that still remains to be seen. It definitely pulls better above 6200 though. The GT-40 just didn't have enough margin to cover the heads for what I'm doing. If the original poster is still interested in regular GT-40 irons, I've got someone who's selling a set of bare castings. They were run on the dyno once, but then the guy opted for GT-40P's instead (he's an SCCA A-Sedan racer). Contact me through email if you're interested. ------------------ Jeff Chambers T/S #3 11.611 Seconds/116.7 MPH Chambers Racing Team

06-06-2001, 08:45 PM	#24
RobertD Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: El Paso, Texas, USA Posts: 170	Well thanks alot for all of your information. You really sold me on the 40P's. That was a great discussion, I was even considering the Edelbrocks! I did do a little research (all week!) and I agree that the 40p's have the flow numbers where I need them. I'll let everyone know how it goes... Meanwhile, I'll break out the credit card and start ordering ------------------ Robert 91GT; 88 ASC McLaren #709

06-07-2001, 12:45 AM	#25
90dpscoupe Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: sanantonio, Tx, usa Posts: 1,407	Chill out guys, but i agree with unit usually, cuz he does know alot, but both you guys pretty much summed it up, so lets be nice , but im sure unit knows from some experience, not everybody has the same opinion, no matter what knowledge, or how much of it.

06-07-2001, 08:40 AM	#26
95mustanggt Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Kamloops, BC Posts: 2,875	I agree with 90 on this one. Lighten up a little guys. Unit may have a harsh word to say on the occaisional thread, but I think you're been a little hard on him. I trust what Unit says. Every post that I have read from him agrees with the knowledge and experience that I have gained elsewhere. He's a valueble member here and contributes alot. I find your comments disrespectful to such a senior member, especially when he's backed up by a very knowledgable member like jeff chambers. Just my thoughts I guess...

06-07-2001, 01:03 PM	#27
89 Cobra LX Don Corlione Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Omaha NE USA Posts: 491	This topic is perfect timing. About 2 months ago I purchased a 302 GT-40p long-block from Excessive Motorsport and I will never do business with them again. The Ford production block came with "stage 2" ported GT-40ps, a Wolverine Cam (5110), and stock rail rockers. This combo is supposedly good for 325 horsepower. I added 1.6 roller rockers, a Cobra intake, fuel pressure regulator and 24lb injectors thinking I would have an honest 325 horsepower. Last week I went to the dyno and produced a peak of 200 rear-wheel horsepower @4500 RPM (my initial pull resulted in 190 peak HP, by tweaking with the fuel pressure we gained 10 HP). This was not a Dynojet, but a Mustang Dynomometer. The dyno-guy advised me this is probably the most accurate dyno currently on the market and instead of the usual 15-20 percent loss in power he has to adjust by 30-31 percent. This means my motor peaked at about 260-265 horsepower. This is 70 horsepower less than the motor was advertised to make, talk about being sick to my stomach. The 24lb injectors are way too much for the motor. Even with the regulator turned down as low as it would go, my air-to-fuel ratio was down in the 12.2 range. Excessive Motorsport is telling me something's wrong with my set-up (70 HP in the set-up on a naturally-aspirated fuel-injected 302?... my *** ) I'll tell you what I think is wrong with the set-up, it's the heads. There is no way I should be getting peak power at 4500 RPM with the intake and cam I've got. I'm tempted to slap a set of aluminum heads on the motor and see how much difference it will make, but I've already invested so much this won't happen. What I am going to do is switch back to the 19lb injectors and add an MSD ignition. I'm hoping to gain another 20 HP at the rear wheels (this would put the motor in the 290 HP range). This isn't great, but I've got to do something to gain some more power. I'm running with all of the standard bolt-ons (headers, off-road pipe, flowmasters, 65mm T-body, 73mm MAF, pulleys and 14 degrees timing) Can someone help me? How can I gain 70 HP in the set-up? Is there some magic dial I need to turn? Thanks - Eric

06-07-2001, 03:50 PM	#28
95mustanggt Registered Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Kamloops, BC Posts: 2,875	190 HP at the rear wheels??? Isn't that about what a stock 5.0L puts out? Something is wrong. Have you been to the track? A quick run will tell you if there is a problem with the dyno. Otherwise, I can't help with the combo info sorry man.

06-07-2001, 04:35 PM	#29
NO SLO PK Registered Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Arcadia, CA, USA Posts: 731	Hey Cobra, a 12.2:1 A/F ratio might be okay for forced induction, but a little too rich for n/a. I don't think you'll gain 70 hp by resetting the A/F, but it would be step in the right direction. ------------------ Russ L '91 LX Procharger, 3 row intercooler, extrude honed Cobra intake, Mac full Length Headers, 30# inj., 73mm C&L, 75mm tb, E303 cam, 289 rods, ported E7 heads, MSD, T-Rex w/255 lph Walbro, 5 lug conversion, Cobra R wheels, 3.27 gears and Moser Axles.

06-07-2001, 05:07 PM	#30
89 Cobra LX Don Corlione Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Omaha NE USA Posts: 491	I haven't been to the track, but I can tell you a fairly stock 2000 GT with gears pulled away from me in the upper RPMs. Those make 260 HP from the factory......

06-07-2001, 07:32 PM	#31
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Evil stang, where have you learned everything? Most people do learn from reading and book other peoples research etc. There is no way if you spent the rest of your life researching you could learn the info you can easily gain from others research. Hands on knowledge is good for 10-20% at most. Everyone w/ lots of hands on knowledge doensn't know ** from experience. I know this because I have seen it time after time. Who knows more in this whole town about building performance engines? Sorry to brag, but its me, and I have hardly any hands on exp. Anyways, you with the slow GT40P headed motor, its not the heads. You see people trapping 105-115mph with these heads and more, you need to look into other details. What are your cam specs, whats your compressionn, do a leak down test, etc etc, make sure your timiing is really where its at. Is your balancer right. Your car is making stock power and its not the heads. Skyler ------------------ -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- TFS Heads, E-303, edelbrock intake,70MM TB, 73mm MAF, off road H, headers and 3chamber flows. 12.55@107mph** 50-175 Nitrous Works WET Kit just added.

06-07-2001, 07:59 PM	#32
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	91evilstang: I deleted your post addressed to Unit 5302. Use e-mail for lectures, not the tech forum. Look, I'm well aware that Unit is sometimes too quick with the insults when he disagrees (and he has admitted this before) but he's also fairly knowledgable and quite passionate about performance, which we admire here. Beside all that, Francismaximus maintained his cool and handled his end of the discussion quite well, in my opinion, and along with the input of Jeff Chambers and a few others, the thread turned to be helpful to Robert as well as to others interested in head selection, which is always a big decision as they are at the heart of performance. Again, my advice to everyone using this forum is to keep it tech, keep it civil, skip the name-calling and if you must lecture and attack, save it for personal e-mail, please.

06-07-2001, 08:03 PM	#33
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Where did I ever say I knew it all? Sorry if I've been on this board learning and helping for the last couple years answering questions from how to change O2 sensors to how does a supercharger work? If you think I've never had an intake off a car, swapped exhaust, engines, rear ends, rebuilt auto overdrive trannies, fwd, rwd, or done bodywork, your wrong. I've got the dirty * clothes hanging in my closet right now... Not the dirty dirty dirty and torn shredded, ones. Those go to the garbage can. LOL. I was rebuilding auto overdrive tranny's when I was 18. It wasn't fun, and I certainly didn't do it because it was my job. But I did get the job done. I've owned 8 cars. 5 Mustang's, everywhere from a 77 Mustang II with 180k on it, to a Dodge Shitow. Have I ever swapped rod bearings? Please refer to last car I mentioned. Question answered. I didn't see myself being an * before somebody implied I didn't know what I was talking about. So I posted the flow numbers, posted links to where I got them, posted my research, posted why, and told the person who said I didn't know what I was talking about to jump in a lake. I'll be honest with you. I don't like working on cars. I'm tired of it. The only reason I continue to do so is I don't like calling the Ford dealer and asking how much, only to find out ever repair is $500 . My daily driver is what I have. If it breaks, I have a deadline to fix it. Gotta be working. I never had it easy, my first car was a 1977 Mustang II Fastback 302 V-8 C4 that sat in our yard for 3 years before I got it. It had 170k on it, and I put up the money to fix it up and get it onto the road. I worked my *** off to get my first 88GT. When the clutch and waterpump took a dump less than a week after I bought it, I was the one under the damn thing wrenching. When I got faulty ujoints that took out my driveshaft, blew my tranny case, busted up my cats, broke a chunk out of my engine block, broke my motor mounts, shot my starter off, and generally took my entire driveline out, who do you think was under the thing? That's right, I was. Everybody wants to come up and accuse me of not knowing anything. Not having any real world experiance. Never modding a car. Never working on a car. Have I read magazines? Yep, had a few subscriptions for a while. What did I take away from them? Basic theory of operation, mostly. What have I learned from being on the Mustangworks? I have access to information about 1000's of members cars, their mods, their successes and failures. Their performance, combos and tons of other info. There is a ton of awesome people on this board. If you think you or I will EVER know as much as the collective knowledge of the pro's on this board, your nuts. There are also a few 10-20-30-40 post fly by night people who come in here not really knowing the real deal. They know their buddy got this car into this time, or their buddy who works out of his garage says this or that. Here I like knowing I have 13,875 buddies that I can ask questions of. I don't have the umpteen millions of dollars to do every single one of those combos. Do you? If you do, that's great and I'm envious, I wish I did. Instead I have to rely on what I've personally seen, and the information that my friends, and others have posted that they have seen or done. My car isn't modded all to hell right now, I plan on getting something else as soon as I can afford it. It'll still run it's 13's on a good day, 14's on a bad one needing a tune. It doens't take an expert to tell people .600 lift with stock heads isn't a good idea. Or that stock intakes on 347 strokers isn't gonna do real well. When I post that and I have somebody right after me posting that I don't know what I'm talking about, that his 87 GT with S/D has an X cam and it goes to beat all hell with stock heads, I get defensive. Not so much because he is contridicting me, it's because he is wrong, and now he's telling another member to go and make a stupid mod, waste his money, and get disappointed. That really pisses me off. Every time I buy a car I ask what the owner has done to it. Not cause I care what he's fixed. It's cause I want to go back and fix it right. So many people who work in the auto industy, or are mechanics just have NO CLUE. I speak of this from PERSONAL experiance. Clutch specialists who forget half your bellhousing bolts, ASE certified tech's who have never done a brake job, mechanics who can't put brakes back on right. I have personally dealt with these instances. So when I come across as harsh, it's generally because I have some real world knowledge to back my position up, and I feel I have been directly attacked, and the person attacking me stands against the great majority of information that I have learned, be it HANDS ON, or FROM THE RESPECTED MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD's hands and eyes. Later, Kell

06-07-2001, 08:09 PM	#34
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Mr 5.0 beat me, so did Skyman, LOL.

06-08-2001, 11:42 PM	#35
Francismaximus Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Harriman, NY, USA Posts: 11	Unit I take offence from you at at all I know my capabilitles and my limits. I a esentially a ford master tech 4 classes away baby. Im only 32. I started for ford at the age 0f 23 was an a tech by 26 making over 60grand. Do I have an ego yes. Do I spew it all aver and berate people no. I have learned from guys like you and from 16 year olds with new and good ideas. My whole point was that it is my belief that untimatly the GT-40 irons will make the most power in theend after all the porting is done said. Its just a better design. THe p's are and always will be a comprimise made by ford to promote good low velocity and torque. Yeah you can cam it right and gear it right and go 12's great. ANd yeah its a great street head. Nice low end punch I love it. Now toss in a b303 or x303 cam and spin that suka to 6000 grand with 4.10's 4.30's(don;t know why but people do. Your 1.45 exaust valve is gonna lose out all the time. Also waht is tha small valve gonna do when you use nitrous or a supercharger? Probably hold you back. (just my therory no facts here) P's to me are just fords way of emtying hte parts bins and making for money they got licky that they work sdo well thats all. The cobra gt-40s are even better smaller combustion chamber more compression. I guess untimatlity it all comes to needs, money expectations, opnion. At least we aint fighting over whats better Iroc's or mustangs. GOd I hatd that one. Peace be with you man. Your comments just made me go learn more. I gave up on heads and stuff and just bolted on a charger. I hope we can all agrees on "no replacement for didplacement" If I cant grow my 5.0 I'll just cram the air in then. Besides I am of the opinion now that spending 4K on a comeplet s/c set up and tuning it right is much more cost effective then? "what cam do I need waht heads? what throttle body? what shorty. Screw it. Force in 8# of boost and have fun!! Enjoy it! Oh and by the way I could of scored a set of port and polish GT-40 irons with 1.6 rockers for 400$ Research is a wonder full thing. ------------------

06-08-2001, 11:48 PM	#36
93CobraR Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 1,575	I picked my GT-40's up for $300. They are working really good for me now. I could have got the P's but then I would have to change my headers. Check out my sig.... ------------------ 87 GT, 4 inch cowl hood,17x9 Cobra R's/255/45's,GT-40 heads,Crane 2031, Edelbrock intake, long tubes headers,h-pipe,Flows,BBK cold air, Mass air,70mm MAF, 1.7's, 1" spacer,underdrive pulleys,Pro 5.0, King Cobra, Adj. fuel Reg., Lakewood Lift Bars,50/50's,subframes, 4.10's. Best time 12.759 Best MPH 106.79 Best 60' 1.695 Visit my site at: http://www.geocities.com/cobrar93_2000/MyPage.html

06-09-2001, 12:29 AM	#37
jimberg Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Rogers, MN Posts: 2,089	This man needs TFS TW heads. So there. ------------------ 351W 89 Mustang GT Convertible [This message has been edited by jimberg (edited 06-09-2001).]

06-09-2001, 12:40 AM	#38
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	I'd certainly agree with the TFS TW heads being the best aluminum head for your money, and the street, on the market. Great flow, down low, right to the top. Pretty small combustion chambers, runner size that match's well to a worked 5.0 or bigger. I've seen them as cheap as $900/set. As far as once they are ported and maxxed out, that's another story between the iron's and the p's. I would assume you could hog them both out and put bigger valves in the P's, not sure what it all winds up being at max. I think if all that work is going to be done, most stangers would be better off picking up a set of the TFS TW heads. Were talking a killer flow curve, and a max flow of above 240cfm, stock! Even wigged GT-40, or GT-40p's would be hard pressed to match (If they even could). I saw a set of milled ported GT40P's on Ebay go for $500, brand spanking new. Complete. There are a couple sets of used GT-40 irons on there for around $400 right now I think. If I were to go with forced induction, I'd take the GT-40 iron and it's 65.5cc combustion chamber. That size keeps the CR a little lower. When you are running an iron head, keeping the CR lower can pay dividends in reliability, and longevity.