Head dowl? Are they important?

Big Bopper · 07-26-2002, 07:08 PM

I lost one of my head dowls (the things that align the heads)
I was wondering if they are needed, or if they just help with the installation? can I put my heads on without one?

srv1 · 07-26-2002, 07:47 PM

YES THEY ARE IMPORTANT! it aligns the head square on the block and keeps the gasket in place. i recommend getting another one from a junkyard or go to a speed shop and see if they have some lying around. i wouldnt assemble it without one.

Ieatcamaros · 07-26-2002, 11:21 PM

you can get them at a local machine shop too. They won't cost you much.

PKRWUD · 07-27-2002, 12:06 AM

VERY IMPORTANT!!!

RdRunnr · 07-27-2002, 01:00 AM

Those guys are right, it is a critical piece. You can get them from your local ford dealer too.

Mach 1 · 07-27-2002, 09:13 AM

I disagree. If your competent enough to line up the gasket and the bolts properly without damageing the gasket, theres no reason you cant sucessfully assemble your engine without the use of the dowl pins. They simply assist you in head installation and make it easier, but they are in no way required for your engine to function properly.

avbcon12 · 07-27-2002, 09:20 AM

they keep the head from shifting side to side while the motor is up and running. the head bolts keep it from lifting. THEY ARE IMPORTANT!!

take care,
adam

Mach 1 · 07-27-2002, 10:16 AM

The head bolts dont keep the head from moving side to side, but a dowel pin does? Come on, that pin is hardly strong enough to keep the head sitting straight before you get the bolts in, and you think its purpose is to keep the head from shifting when the heads bolts are tight? Where did you come to this conclusion from?

I would think Ford is relying on more than that pin to keep the head from moving side to side

srv1 · 07-27-2002, 10:26 AM

ok Mach, you build your motor without them. take your chances. i will recommend to this guy for about $5 he can do the job right. if you want to do it that way or you have and it didnt have any problems fine, but definetly dont misinform this guy he can do without them. opinions are fine, but dont say they are only their for "assisting". not true. keep the facts with the facts and the opinions with the opinions. not trying to be an asz towards you. hope you understand.

Mach 1 · 07-27-2002, 10:53 AM

Im not misinforming him or anybody else. Logic states that I am correct. Wheres your logic? Prove to me that these pins are required for proper operation. Im open to logical explanation. I havent seen any yet in this post.

The pins are for ease of assembly, and its seems rather clear to me that is thier only purpose. They are made from rolled metal,not a very convincing arugument that they are needed to prevent head movement, which doesn t even make sense.

They align the gasket and head for installation. The bolts are what holds the thing together. It doesnt take an engineer to see this....As long as you can line up the gasket and bolts without the pins, like most other gaskets , whats the problem?

srv1 · 07-27-2002, 11:03 AM

i dont know Mach maybe its the 11 years as a mechanic that gave me that logic. you try lining up a cylinder head gasket when you put that 40 pound cast iron head on while leaning over the fender.

they(car manufacturors) put them there for a reason so maybe that is my logic. you may have had success without them, but we tend not let the "backyard" mechanic to lay down the rules. yes you probably can line it up without them, but why would you? if you where in a pinch and the car had to be done, i would try to make a dowel out of something first before i was ever to bolt the head on. as for shifting side to side, i think so, but i am not sure on that part. Chris, you have built more engines than you can shake a stick at, why dont you give a poke at this?

Big Bopper, USE THE DOWELS!!

Mach 1 · 07-27-2002, 11:08 AM

The question was "can I put my head on without a dowel pin"?

The answer is "YES"! Enough said.

srv1 · 07-27-2002, 11:12 AM

the answer is yes. yes if you want to do it the wrong way.

PKRWUD · 07-27-2002, 12:41 PM

The title of the thread is Head dowl? Are they important?, and the answer is absolutely! Chris, they do help to keep the head and gasket centered during installation, as you know, but they also help keep the head in place afterwards, too. The bolts by themselves do not automatically line up the head correctly. There is play around each bolt as it passes through the head. The bolts do 95% of the job of holding things together, but the dowels do their 5%. How do you know when you're torquing the head bolts down that the head is perfectly centered? It's kinda like saying the crankshaft key isn't necessary because the dampner bolt will hold the dampner place. Kinda. That's a little extreme, but I hope you get the point.

An engine can be assembled and run without the dowels, but it would be very foolish, and risky, to do so.

Take care,
~Chris

andy669 · 07-27-2002, 01:01 PM

Pkrwud pretty much summed up the truth, not an opinion.

All i can add is: GOOD GOD MAN!! Never ever would I attempt to put an engine together (and expect it to last) without the head dowels.

Andy

Mach 1 · 07-27-2002, 01:35 PM

The way I see it, the guy was missing ONE dowel pin and wanted to know if he can put his head on without it. I say yes, and I still say yes.
Im not saying its the best way, and I never did, but you can do it and your car will run without problems. When all 10 head bolts are centered and torqued, and all are going through the gasket where they should be, and you are careful that everything is lined up correctly, and you have ONE dowel pin, as he said he did, I say he can do it. Am im right. He can do it.

Thad · 07-27-2002, 08:30 PM

i just removd the heads from my engine to get them overhauled. Mainly cleaned up. But anyway. there were no dowel pins in the assembly.The builder did use studs for mounting the heads though. I don't know if this would sufice for the dowle pins or not?
Should i put some new pins in?

Mach 1 · 07-27-2002, 11:04 PM

might as well. a few bucks from your local Ford dealer will get you a set.

PKRWUD · 07-27-2002, 11:07 PM

The studs will hold the gasket in place, and will probably not allow any movement of the head. Especially if the nuts and washers are centering. If you can move the head side to side at all when the nuts are not quite finger tight, yes, you should. If the head is solid, and isn't going anywhere at all, then no, you don't. Since there weren't any when you removed the heads, I suspect the heads will have no play at all when the nuts and washers are finger tight.

Take care,
~Chris

Thad · 07-28-2002, 08:17 AM

Thanks guys!

07-26-2002, 07:08 PM	#1
Big Bopper Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Sechelt, B.C., Canada Posts: 200	Head dowl? Are they important? I lost one of my head dowls (the things that align the heads) I was wondering if they are needed, or if they just help with the installation? can I put my heads on without one? __________________ 90' GT Drop-top, 88' 302,pulleys,full flowmasters (turndowns),Ported stock Intakes,twin flex-a-lites,Pro-5.0,3.55's,short belt,elctric water pump,timing bumped,taylor leads.(headers soon!)

07-26-2002, 07:47 PM	#2
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	YES THEY ARE IMPORTANT! it aligns the head square on the block and keeps the gasket in place. i recommend getting another one from a junkyard or go to a speed shop and see if they have some lying around. i wouldnt assemble it without one. __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-26-2002, 11:21 PM	#3
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	you can get them at a local machine shop too. They won't cost you much. __________________ The sig says it all.

07-27-2002, 12:06 AM	#4
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	VERY IMPORTANT!!! __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-27-2002, 01:00 AM	#5
RdRunnr Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Newark,DE Posts: 98	Those guys are right, it is a critical piece. You can get them from your local ford dealer too. __________________ Eric 1990 Mustang GT 10.46 @130.97 ClickClickracing Forums

07-27-2002, 09:13 AM	#6
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	I disagree. If your competent enough to line up the gasket and the bolts properly without damageing the gasket, theres no reason you cant sucessfully assemble your engine without the use of the dowl pins. They simply assist you in head installation and make it easier, but they are in no way required for your engine to function properly. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

07-27-2002, 09:20 AM	#7
avbcon12 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: West Bloomfield, MI Posts: 391	they keep the head from shifting side to side while the motor is up and running. the head bolts keep it from lifting. THEY ARE IMPORTANT!! take care, adam __________________ 90 GT black/ grey leather ported GT-40 heads w/ 1.7RR, Cobra intake w/ ported lower, 24# injectors, 190LPH pump, 75mm Pro-M MAF, 65mm TB, K&N panel, BBK long tubes, Off road H-pipe, 2 ch. Flowmaster, Black magic fan, Kirban FPR, 180 deg. T-stat, 3.73's, Steeda Tri-Ax, 130 amp alt. Accell 8.8 race wires/cap/rotor, motorcraft plugs, Factory Five suspension, etc etc etc.... http://avbcon12.stangnet.com

07-27-2002, 10:16 AM	#8
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	The head bolts dont keep the head from moving side to side, but a dowel pin does? Come on, that pin is hardly strong enough to keep the head sitting straight before you get the bolts in, and you think its purpose is to keep the head from shifting when the heads bolts are tight? Where did you come to this conclusion from? I would think Ford is relying on more than that pin to keep the head from moving side to side __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

07-27-2002, 10:26 AM	#9
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	ok Mach, you build your motor without them. take your chances. i will recommend to this guy for about $5 he can do the job right. if you want to do it that way or you have and it didnt have any problems fine, but definetly dont misinform this guy he can do without them. opinions are fine, but dont say they are only their for "assisting". not true. keep the facts with the facts and the opinions with the opinions. not trying to be an asz towards you. hope you understand. __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-27-2002, 10:53 AM	#10
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	Im not misinforming him or anybody else. Logic states that I am correct. Wheres your logic? Prove to me that these pins are required for proper operation. Im open to logical explanation. I havent seen any yet in this post. The pins are for ease of assembly, and its seems rather clear to me that is thier only purpose. They are made from rolled metal,not a very convincing arugument that they are needed to prevent head movement, which doesn t even make sense. They align the gasket and head for installation. The bolts are what holds the thing together. It doesnt take an engineer to see this....As long as you can line up the gasket and bolts without the pins, like most other gaskets , whats the problem? __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

07-27-2002, 11:03 AM	#11
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	i dont know Mach maybe its the 11 years as a mechanic that gave me that logic. you try lining up a cylinder head gasket when you put that 40 pound cast iron head on while leaning over the fender. they(car manufacturors) put them there for a reason so maybe that is my logic. you may have had success without them, but we tend not let the "backyard" mechanic to lay down the rules. yes you probably can line it up without them, but why would you? if you where in a pinch and the car had to be done, i would try to make a dowel out of something first before i was ever to bolt the head on. as for shifting side to side, i think so, but i am not sure on that part. Chris, you have built more engines than you can shake a stick at, why dont you give a poke at this? Big Bopper, USE THE DOWELS!! __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-27-2002, 11:08 AM	#12
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	The question was "can I put my head on without a dowel pin"? The answer is "YES"! Enough said. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

07-27-2002, 11:12 AM	#13
srv1 Get down..... Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Room 103 Posts: 2,095	the answer is yes. yes if you want to do it the wrong way. __________________ Cobra brakes are on! Finally..... ------------------------------------------------

07-27-2002, 12:41 PM	#14
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	The title of the thread is Head dowl? Are they important?, and the answer is absolutely! Chris, they do help to keep the head and gasket centered during installation, as you know, but they also help keep the head in place afterwards, too. The bolts by themselves do not automatically line up the head correctly. There is play around each bolt as it passes through the head. The bolts do 95% of the job of holding things together, but the dowels do their 5%. How do you know when you're torquing the head bolts down that the head is perfectly centered? It's kinda like saying the crankshaft key isn't necessary because the dampner bolt will hold the dampner place. Kinda. That's a little extreme, but I hope you get the point. An engine can be assembled and run without the dowels, but it would be very foolish, and risky, to do so. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-27-2002, 01:01 PM	#15
andy669 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Moline Il Posts: 901	Pkrwud pretty much summed up the truth, not an opinion. All i can add is: GOOD GOD MAN!! Never ever would I attempt to put an engine together (and expect it to last) without the head dowels. Andy __________________ 88 coupe 91 LX NMRA Pure Street 5120

07-27-2002, 01:35 PM	#16
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	The way I see it, the guy was missing ONE dowel pin and wanted to know if he can put his head on without it. I say yes, and I still say yes. Im not saying its the best way, and I never did, but you can do it and your car will run without problems. When all 10 head bolts are centered and torqued, and all are going through the gasket where they should be, and you are careful that everything is lined up correctly, and you have ONE dowel pin, as he said he did, I say he can do it. Am im right. He can do it. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

07-27-2002, 08:30 PM	#17
Thad Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Stuart, FL US Posts: 192	i just removd the heads from my engine to get them overhauled. Mainly cleaned up. But anyway. there were no dowel pins in the assembly.The builder did use studs for mounting the heads though. I don't know if this would sufice for the dowle pins or not? Should i put some new pins in? __________________ 90 LX 5.0 ,bored 302, MSD 6AL, Twisted Wedge TrickFlo HDs, World class T5, BBK fender cold air induct., 70mm TB,Edelbrock performer Intake, aluminum Drve shaft, 3.55 Gears, Long Tube Headers to Flowmasters.

07-27-2002, 11:04 PM	#18
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	might as well. a few bucks from your local Ford dealer will get you a set. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

07-27-2002, 11:07 PM	#19
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	The studs will hold the gasket in place, and will probably not allow any movement of the head. Especially if the nuts and washers are centering. If you can move the head side to side at all when the nuts are not quite finger tight, yes, you should. If the head is solid, and isn't going anywhere at all, then no, you don't. Since there weren't any when you removed the heads, I suspect the heads will have no play at all when the nuts and washers are finger tight. Take care, ~Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

07-28-2002, 08:17 AM	#20
Thad Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Stuart, FL US Posts: 192	Thanks guys! __________________ 90 LX 5.0 ,bored 302, MSD 6AL, Twisted Wedge TrickFlo HDs, World class T5, BBK fender cold air induct., 70mm TB,Edelbrock performer Intake, aluminum Drve shaft, 3.55 Gears, Long Tube Headers to Flowmasters.

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