Could a head gasket cause a tapping?

Michael Smith · 09-19-2004, 07:57 PM

This may be a little long but trying to give as much info as possible. Well just got a forged piston short block from central coast mustang. Put Edelbrock 6037's with Fel pro 10112 head gaskets, a B303 cam, FMS hydro roller lifters, stock length FMS push rods, FMS pedestal 1.6 roller rockers, and 24 injectors. Well after getting it all together I prime the pump and oil is getting to the valve train. Finish it up start her and I got this tapping so I go to the rockers and play the shim game. Tapping stops on passenger side but still got it on driver side so I switch the rockers to the other side and still got tapping on driver side. I am starting to wonder if I got a bad lifter even if they are new or when I put the driver side head gasket on I had a little problem getting it to stay in place since I have the 7/16 head bolts and it would drop down and expose itself in the top of the cylinder I dont think it did but there is always the chance that it did. Any way the tapping is driving me crazy or is it just the rockers being normaly loud? Any help would be great.
Thanks
Mike

Rev · 09-19-2004, 08:06 PM

Is the tapping more like clicking? If it sounds like a loose rocker arm adjustment, it could be a header gasket leak. Those sound just like a loose rocker arm adjustment to me.

Rev

Ieatcamaros · 09-19-2004, 08:31 PM

You didn't say if you pumped the lifters or not? And check your exhaust gaskets as rev suggested. That would also make a tapping or clicking sound.

Hozer 88GTConv · 09-19-2004, 08:53 PM

I had a rocker arm back off after a head rebuild recently. It is loud as sh*t. My guess is you would know it right away.
Incidentally, I have a b-cam and my valve train is "noisier" too. I have a cowled hood with no insulation, so valve noise is quite audible.
Just make sure you primed your lifters. Give them up to 5 minutes of running at idle to fully prime. Then it should quiet down.
Then check your header bolts...
Good Luck...

Michael Smith · 09-20-2004, 09:06 AM

Hey thanks all for the reply. Well I did check the headers if they were loose but it was good, brand new 1 5/8 long tubes with new gaskets I also did a compresion test and everything was even all the way across and I did prime the engine prior to start up and had oil flowing all the way to all the rockers. I do let it idle for a few minutes too and the tapping stays. I have only ran the engine for about a half hour to 45 minutes so I will go back in and retorqe the heads again and change the oil. The noise is more of a tapping then clicking. I am running 10w 30 but I have used it in other 302 applications with no problem. If that dont fix it maybe its just loud rockers but only on the driver side? Anymore input would be greatfull.
Thanks Again
Mike

Ieatcamaros · 09-20-2004, 09:40 AM

Quote:

I did prime the engine prior to start up and had oil flowing all the way to all the rockers

Yeah, but did you prime the lifters prior to installation? If all esle fails, you will just have to keep doing the trial and error my friend. You swapped the rockers, but did you swap the pushrods along with them? I doubt it makes a difference, but you got to try everything. Try switching the heads too. But my money is on the lifters.
Oh, and what method did you use to "adjust" the valves.

Michael Smith · 09-20-2004, 11:45 PM

No I didnt prime the lifters so I pulled the intake, rockers, push rods, and lifters this evening did a visual inspection and they look fine tryed to push the plungers in with a push rod and they wouldnt move by hand. Inspected all the other components and they look fine nothing unusual. Lifters are soaking in motor oil over night and I will install again tomorrow night. Check this out I retorqed the heads when I got home first before anything else head bolts didnt move that I could tell then started her up tapping was real faint let her warm up then hit the throttel a couple times and as she was comming back down the tapping came back as before. I am thinking that the lifters are the problem like Ieatcamaros is saying but if one is sticking or colapsing do you think I should replace and prime that side or just prime the ones I got and reinstall? I adjusted the rockers as per the recomendation from cranecams using pedestal rockers and checking the sweep on the valve tip.
Thanks for the help and advise.
Mike

USMC302 · 09-21-2004, 01:03 PM

On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being loudest) how would you rate the noise level?

Crane valve trains are commonly noisy, I would rate mine as a 4. Just wanting to make sure the noise level indicates a problem and not annoying loud valvetrain.

I've run mine for over a year and had no excessive wear or problems, custom length pushrods (Trickflow) 1.6 RR (Crane) and on the TW heads with the 1.60 and 2.02 valves, .600 lift double springs (Trickflow) and good oil pressure.

Good luck.

Ieatcamaros · 09-21-2004, 07:25 PM

If all the plungers are hard, then they are primed and you have other problems or just a noisy valvetrain as menitoned earlier. If they are not hard, proceed.
You need to put your lifters in a can of oil. The oil level in the can needs to be higher than the hole in the side of the lifter. I like to use a pushrod for this procedure too. Put one lifter in the oil and (since it is a roller this will be a little harder to do) push down on the plunger part. Let it come back up. Repeat until hard(solid). Do each lifter this way. This will eliminate the lifters making racket. Btw, the travel on a hydraulic lifter is only about .075". So don't try to over do it.

Michael Smith · 09-22-2004, 09:31 PM

Hey I wont be able to work on the mustang till the weekend so I will post again to let you all know how it goes this weekend and thanks all for the input. On a scale from 1-10 noise being about a 6 from valve train but we will see after I get it back together.
Mike

88fivepointoh · 09-23-2004, 02:43 PM

If you retourqued the heads and the tapping went away then you have head gasket issues. obviously, check the headers they sound like a valve train issue as well.. loud tapping. I am not a fan of the crane lifters. I like the Ford Racing.. quite as can be. If you move your timing around and it changes the sound of tapping then its either a head gasket or header gasket.. and then you can rule out the motor internals.

stang_racer20 · 09-23-2004, 09:56 PM

Could it be a rocker ever so slightly tapping the valve covers? I had to grind the casting knobs out of my Ford Racing valve covers just to fit with 1.6 TF Rockers. Might be worth a look!

Michael Smith · 09-27-2004, 10:25 AM

Well put it all back together last night. I did pull the head too wanted to check the head gasket just in case since I was there also went and got 4 new lifters and primed them the way Ieatcamaros said to and put them in place of the suspected ones making the noise, primed the engine again just to make sure oil was getting to all the rockers put the covers on fired her up and the tapping is gone. Just would like to thank everyone who replied for the advise and knowledge.
Thanks
Mike

Ieatcamaros · 09-27-2004, 07:10 PM

Good deal!! Glad to hear you got her fixed.

09-19-2004, 07:57 PM	#1
Michael Smith Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 33	Could a head gasket cause a tapping? This may be a little long but trying to give as much info as possible. Well just got a forged piston short block from central coast mustang. Put Edelbrock 6037's with Fel pro 10112 head gaskets, a B303 cam, FMS hydro roller lifters, stock length FMS push rods, FMS pedestal 1.6 roller rockers, and 24 injectors. Well after getting it all together I prime the pump and oil is getting to the valve train. Finish it up start her and I got this tapping so I go to the rockers and play the shim game. Tapping stops on passenger side but still got it on driver side so I switch the rockers to the other side and still got tapping on driver side. I am starting to wonder if I got a bad lifter even if they are new or when I put the driver side head gasket on I had a little problem getting it to stay in place since I have the 7/16 head bolts and it would drop down and expose itself in the top of the cylinder I dont think it did but there is always the chance that it did. Any way the tapping is driving me crazy or is it just the rockers being normaly loud? Any help would be great. Thanks Mike

09-19-2004, 08:06 PM	#2
Rev Registered Member Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Houston, Tx. Posts: 3,887	Clicking? Is the tapping more like clicking? If it sounds like a loose rocker arm adjustment, it could be a header gasket leak. Those sound just like a loose rocker arm adjustment to me. Rev __________________ '66 Coupe, 306, 350-375 HP, C-4, 13.07 e.t., 104.8 mph, 1/4 mi. O.B.C. #2 '66 coupe

09-19-2004, 08:31 PM	#3
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	You didn't say if you pumped the lifters or not? And check your exhaust gaskets as rev suggested. That would also make a tapping or clicking sound. __________________ The sig says it all.

09-19-2004, 08:53 PM	#4
Hozer 88GTConv Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 706	I'll second that... I had a rocker arm back off after a head rebuild recently. It is loud as sh*t. My guess is you would know it right away. Incidentally, I have a b-cam and my valve train is "noisier" too. I have a cowled hood with no insulation, so valve noise is quite audible. Just make sure you primed your lifters. Give them up to 5 minutes of running at idle to fully prime. Then it should quiet down. Then check your header bolts... Good Luck... __________________ 1988 GT Convertible 331 10:1 TW heads, GT-40 intake, MSD, TRW flattops, B Cam w/ 1.7's, MAC exhaust, 24's, 70 TB, 76 MAF, 3.73's, Pro 5.0, Koni's, Anderson PMS, Wideband 02, yatta, yatta... One week with new motor, two speeding tickets...joy

09-21-2004, 01:03 PM	#8
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being loudest) how would you rate the noise level? Crane valve trains are commonly noisy, I would rate mine as a 4. Just wanting to make sure the noise level indicates a problem and not annoying loud valvetrain. I've run mine for over a year and had no excessive wear or problems, custom length pushrods (Trickflow) 1.6 RR (Crane) and on the TW heads with the 1.60 and 2.02 valves, .600 lift double springs (Trickflow) and good oil pressure. Good luck. __________________

09-20-2004, 09:06 AM	#5
Michael Smith Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 33	Hey thanks all for the reply. Well I did check the headers if they were loose but it was good, brand new 1 5/8 long tubes with new gaskets I also did a compresion test and everything was even all the way across and I did prime the engine prior to start up and had oil flowing all the way to all the rockers. I do let it idle for a few minutes too and the tapping stays. I have only ran the engine for about a half hour to 45 minutes so I will go back in and retorqe the heads again and change the oil. The noise is more of a tapping then clicking. I am running 10w 30 but I have used it in other 302 applications with no problem. If that dont fix it maybe its just loud rockers but only on the driver side? Anymore input would be greatfull. Thanks Again Mike

09-20-2004, 11:45 PM	#7
Michael Smith Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 33	No I didnt prime the lifters so I pulled the intake, rockers, push rods, and lifters this evening did a visual inspection and they look fine tryed to push the plungers in with a push rod and they wouldnt move by hand. Inspected all the other components and they look fine nothing unusual. Lifters are soaking in motor oil over night and I will install again tomorrow night. Check this out I retorqed the heads when I got home first before anything else head bolts didnt move that I could tell then started her up tapping was real faint let her warm up then hit the throttel a couple times and as she was comming back down the tapping came back as before. I am thinking that the lifters are the problem like Ieatcamaros is saying but if one is sticking or colapsing do you think I should replace and prime that side or just prime the ones I got and reinstall? I adjusted the rockers as per the recomendation from cranecams using pedestal rockers and checking the sweep on the valve tip. Thanks for the help and advise. Mike

09-21-2004, 07:25 PM	#9
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	If all the plungers are hard, then they are primed and you have other problems or just a noisy valvetrain as menitoned earlier. If they are not hard, proceed. You need to put your lifters in a can of oil. The oil level in the can needs to be higher than the hole in the side of the lifter. I like to use a pushrod for this procedure too. Put one lifter in the oil and (since it is a roller this will be a little harder to do) push down on the plunger part. Let it come back up. Repeat until hard(solid). Do each lifter this way. This will eliminate the lifters making racket. Btw, the travel on a hydraulic lifter is only about .075". So don't try to over do it. __________________ The sig says it all.

09-22-2004, 09:31 PM	#10
Michael Smith Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 33	Hey I wont be able to work on the mustang till the weekend so I will post again to let you all know how it goes this weekend and thanks all for the input. On a scale from 1-10 noise being about a 6 from valve train but we will see after I get it back together. Mike

09-23-2004, 02:43 PM	#11
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	If you retourqued the heads and the tapping went away then you have head gasket issues. obviously, check the headers they sound like a valve train issue as well.. loud tapping. I am not a fan of the crane lifters. I like the Ford Racing.. quite as can be. If you move your timing around and it changes the sound of tapping then its either a head gasket or header gasket.. and then you can rule out the motor internals.

09-23-2004, 09:56 PM	#12
stang_racer20 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 348	Could it be a rocker ever so slightly tapping the valve covers? I had to grind the casting knobs out of my Ford Racing valve covers just to fit with 1.6 TF Rockers. Might be worth a look! __________________ 92 Mustang GT, 347 Stroker(Forged Steel Crank/Rods-Balanced, Forged Aluminum Dished Pistons), Trick Flow Track Heat Intake, Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Heads w/ Stage 3 port/polish, 80mm C&L MAF, FMS 30# Inj., BBK AFPR, Trick Flow Stage 2 Cam, Trick Flow 1.6R Rockers, BBK E.L. Headers, Flowmaster Cat-Back, MAC CAI, FMS Pulleys, Griffin Alum. Radiator, MSD Pro-Billet Distributor; AOD, Dynamic 3300 Lockup Converter, B & M Super Cooler, B&M Ratchet Shifter; 3:73 gears.

09-27-2004, 10:25 AM	#13
Michael Smith Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington Posts: 33	Well put it all back together last night. I did pull the head too wanted to check the head gasket just in case since I was there also went and got 4 new lifters and primed them the way Ieatcamaros said to and put them in place of the suspected ones making the noise, primed the engine again just to make sure oil was getting to all the rockers put the covers on fired her up and the tapping is gone. Just would like to thank everyone who replied for the advise and knowledge. Thanks Mike

09-27-2004, 07:10 PM	#14
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	Good deal!! Glad to hear you got her fixed. __________________ The sig says it all.

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