HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Went to 1/8 mi. strip today.
15* timing 40-42# fuel pressure.
Only went 9.00 @77.5
My old bolt-on stocker was faster. 8.75 @ 77.6

What's going on?? Tmoss said headers seemed big but It's got tons of tourqe, on the street it seems MUCH faster but 9.00's?? Granted my shifter was hanging up on me and I missed some shifts but on the 3 9.00's (all almost identical) I hit 2 & 3rd pretty good, not powershift fast, but smooth.60 ft's still 1.8-1.9

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

might wanna try 38-39# of fuel pressure. when i dyno'd my car I had mine up there and had to lower it. i had almost the same combo except i had cobra intake and 1-5/8 longtubes.

what gear? 3.73's 4.10's?

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

3.73's
should I be as afraid as i am about leaning it out that much?
The plugs aready look leaner than rich, really light tan almost milky white color on straps.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Judging from your MPH, your "old bolt on stocker" wasn't any faster than this engine or, at least, didn't make any more power.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

If you have AFR 165's you should be running an 8.2

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

I have NO idea how you came up with that answer. Just because one setup, like his, with 165's, runs 8.2's in the 1/8 dosesn't mean ALL setups like that will.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Agreed,

Anyways, I run 38 psi of fuel pressure on 24 # injectors and go high 7's @86mph in the 1/8th.

Your mph is pretty low and I really,really,really doubt a slight change in fuel pressure is going to help very much at all.

Find a dyno and get the bugs worked out.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

38#'s high 7's all motor?? HELP ME I figured I'd run 8.20's too and I studied up b-4 I built my combo so I don't get it??
I rechecked my fuel pressure 2-day and it was up to like 45#??
I havn't touched since sun. so I dunno?
but if the plugs are not looking rich at 42# would you lean it out more?
I looked at 2 of them 2-day and the looked more tan than whiteish as they did at the track on Sun.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

I am not a fuel injected guru, but I would say if your fuel pressure is varying its pressure, I would chase that demon first and I bet your times follow.
Ryan

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Your fuel pressure has little to do with your air to fuel ratio. Your ecu will compensate for changes in fuel pressure by adjusting the pulse width of the injector accordingly. You can pick up HP at the dyno by playing with the fuel pressure but the ECU will quickly adjust and you will lose the little bit of HP that you gained. The only way to have true adjustability is with a TWEECER or similar piggy back system.


I ran a 13.59 @100mph with my #4 injector unplugged I sure was happy when I figured it out and ran 12.60's @107 the next time out. :D Hopefully its that simple for you.

*Do a compression test.
*Check firing order
*Check all the injector plugs
*Make sure your timing is advancing 20 degrees past initial when you rev it.
*Make sure you MAM is calibrated for your injectors
*Check your TPS voltage
*Pull the codes

If it still is running slow after all that then my best guess would be that the cam is off a tooth. :eek:

If you have stud mount rockers you also could have a valve too tight and have a dead cylinder. The compression check will reveal if thats the case.

Good luck!!!!! :D

BTW: What is your compression ratio.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

i had 165's tfs stage 1 cam and cobra intake and was in the high 7's.

somethings gota be out of whack for it to only run those times. seems to be launching ok with the 1.8-1.9 60' times

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

dang mike , see I was hoping for at least 820-8.30's as my car is kinda heavy 3330 w/me in it.
Comp ratio I guess to be around 10to1-10.25to1

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

8.20's to 8.30's should be cake. I am in the 7's @3000ft.

Find a dyno. A dyno graph will tell us more than track times.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

thats about what my car weighs! i had weight it once and was 3225 befroe i had done anything.

these times that me and dark are runnign we're using slicks and doing rev limiter launches! at least thats how i was doing it.

get that thing on a dyno and lets see whats it's making then we'll see if it's the car or something else

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

I launch at 4-5 thouand RPM's any more than that and I would spin bad on the 8 inch slicks.

Are you missing your stang yet Mike?

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

i was running 8 inch slicks and would hold revs at 4000-5000 and when second yellow went out i'd mat the gas and side step the clutch on trhe lsty yellow. low to mid 1.6 60 foot times.


yes i miss it. have only been back to a drag stip once since selling it...

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

I haven't tried a compression check yet, I'll do that asap, I do have stud mount adjustable rockers, today I was messing with the fuel pressure and it seem's to pull harder at 45#'s than at 40# ?
Wouldn't a dead cylinder or a BAD intake leak make themselves VERY evident?

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

A dead cylinder cause by a valve being set too tight would show up when you do a compression check. A dead cylinder from a faulty injector would show up when you pull the plugs.

A vacuum gauge will find a vacuum leak very easily.

Keep us posted.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Ok, I still haven't had a change to do a full compression check, working all week, but I hooked my Vac guage up and at idle I'm only reading 14" , it should be around 20" right?
It' acts right when I blip the throttle and when I hold it at 2000 rpm's for 20 secs. or so and close throttle it holds at 3-4" higher for a few seconds as it should .
I've been told this low a reading is probably late valve timing, does this mean the cam is off??!!??!!
Or could it be a tight valve, will a compression check tell me if it is a tight valve? I'm guessing that cylinder will have a exessivly low reading?
Will it matter if I do it with a cold engine or must it be up to temp?

Thanks
Wes

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Your vacuum reading is pretty normal for a cam'd 302. A valve that is adjusted too tight will usually result in a compression reading of "0".

It wont really matter if you do the compression test cold or hot cause if you have a problem it wilkl be really obvious.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

I was told today not to worry about the low vac because of cam so, thanks Dark.
Well did a compression test today and they're all pretty balanced around 180#.
#1 is lowest at 168#, #8 is highest at 185#.
SO WHAT DO I DO NOW????
:( :(

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Well you are about 10 mph short of were you should be and thats not cool after you spent all that money on AFR heads.

I would be hauling @ss to the nearest dyno to get the problems sorted out.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Ok , I think I may have a bad FPR it's one of the Holley $55 deals and is supposed to be adjustable to 60psi, maxed out mine is only showing 45psi at idle and the plugs still look a little lean. The guage is on the shrader valve so I can't see it while driving to see if it drops, so 45psi should be pretty rich right? And with plugs looking on the leaner side of the fence I belive the regulator is bad?

As I mentioned it seems to run much harder at 45psi than at 40psi which didn't make much sense to me, seems a bad FPR could be why it seems that way? If the pressure is all over the place when I'm on it then this could explain why I don't have the power I should??

Should I put the stock one back on and see what happens? Or just get a better one, if I'm right.
But she won't go past 45psi and should go to 65psi so..??

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

stick the stocker back on and see what happens.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Dang it , now I can't find the stock one!!
I know I didn't throw it out, so I hope to find somwhere in this junk pile that used to be my garage this week.
It should put out around 40psi correct?

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

OK, I can't find the stock FP reg. But with 11* int. timing and 125 shot the plugs look lean even a tiny bit of electrode melt, the guage is good i checked it with a Mac one. The pump is a 190 lph & it's good cause guage spikes when I crimp return line, the regulator wouldn't go past 43# today and only had about 800psi in it.
With no gas I can run up to 18* int. timing with no Det.

So, DO I NEED A NEW REGULATOR??????

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

There is just no way around it, your car has a pretty serious issue.

You say your car weighs in at 3330 with you in it and you ran a 9.0 @77mph. That equals out to about 240 RWHP which is at least 40 RWHP low for an AFR headed 5.0.

If I were you I would pull the timing cover and set the engine to TDC and verify that your timing marks are lined up correctly. If they are I would take the entire engine apart and find out what the hell is wrong. There is no way your HP could be that low without something being seriously wrong with your set-up.

Good luck,

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Man I don't want to tear back into that thing, we didn't degree the cam, but we did line up the marks, if it skipped a tooth or wasn't close wouldn't run rough? (which it doesn't),also compression is good right? (above)
You guys know more than me, but I sure think the plugs look lean, plus that fpr seems to be dropping pressure everyday, last week it went as high as 47#, yesterday only 43# then the adjustment screw bottoms out and the prssure drops, back it out and it comes back up, also it's supposed to be adj. between 35-65# but it will go down to like 20#(where it stalls), and I still can't find my stock FPR>

BTW I meant only 800psi nitrous pressure

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Jeff, I went 9.00 @ 78.2 1.9 60' with this motor.

Old motor was stock intake pretty much all bolt-ons, short tube headers,pullies,3.73's,65mm tb(it was s.d. then), flow 3-tube mufflers(still using them), 1.7 RR's, heads shaved .030 and ported by me as was the lower intake (poorly)
It went 8.75 @ 78.76 1.9 60' ( in probably 25* cooler weather)

Mid-track speeds about the same 5.614 330ft
8.186 594ft

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

OK, I got a Kirban FPR and it seems to run better.
As for a dyno, not many arond here but I E-mailed a guy pretty close by and he said a dyno tune and a burned chip would cost me $450.00

Does that sound resonable? Do I need a chip burned for MY engine?

Thanks
Guys

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Yeah that price is fairly reasonable.

Any H/C/I can benefit modified 5.0 can benifit from a dyno tune.

I am in the process of building a 331 stroker and then I am driving 150 miles to get it tuned cause I dont want to be dissapointed at the track if you know what I mean. ;)

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

What about a custom chip?
Is it needed, will it make more power by "knowing" the H/C/I combo?

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Well, I finally got it dyno-tuned and it baselined 270 rwhp, three runs and a custom burned chip later and she laid down 300.97 rwhp, 337 ftlbs, so that should be about 345-350 at the crank so I got what I was looking for, now I've got to shell out another $250 for a nitrous tune (re-tune) as the chip has 4 switches, I did'nt realize that after a dyno tune I can't mess with the timing or anything so that means no gas until i go back for the retune.

What about when it gets hot and humid? Will I need a retune then?
I ask because this session was at 66 degrees 11% humidity, in summer here it's more like 94 degrees 90% humitity? this will cause problems perhaps?

Anyway I am very pleased with the results as the car drives much smoother and has noticably more power, can't wait to get to strip!!

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

How do I post my dyno graph?
I have a scanner, but can't use a computer.

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

ski
Post it as an attachment

Have you been back to the track with after the dyno sessions?
Now that you have eliminated the the engine as being at fault you have to find out if the chassis/suspension is working like it should.

Denny@JDS Induction Products

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Congrats on the new found power. You should be able to just get into the 12's all motor now. :D

I made almost identicle numbers without a dyno tune. Seeing your results makes me wish I would have had mine tuned. :o

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Thanks Dark, it's been a LONG road, the dyno tune was WELL worth the money. I would almost garantee you'd benefit a lot, more power all over the tach.
I don't think the strips open around here until the first of Mar. or so, but I'll be asap.
we only have 1/8 strips within driving distance from here, but if it runs good enough when I get it on gas I might go down to darlington :)

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

C:\My Documents\My Scans\2007-01 (Jan)

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

how do a add attatchment??

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

I think you can "go advanced" on the reply, then you'll see "insert image" at the top, that may work.
Btw, Im wanting a dyno tune and chip burned after reading this.:D

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

[IMG]C:\My Documents\My Scans\2007-01 (Jan)\[/IMG]

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

C:\My Documents\My Scans\2007-01 (Jan)\ScannedImage-3.jpg

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Man you picked up a ton of HP and torque across the entire power band.

Nice,

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Yes, I am very pleased with the results, car drives better all the way around, mores streetable too.
The graph he printed shows pull #2 at 288hp and #6 (last pull) 300.97hp,
seems he only ran it 4 or 5 times but mabye 6, in 4 changes he only got 12hp,but he may have tried some curves that lost power and I didn't notice, but the 1st pull after he cleared the memory on the CPU he baslined with A9P stock cpu maps (he told me the auto cpu's are more agressive than a A9L manual box?) anyway pull one was like 168hp give or take.
P.S. I have a t-5 upgraded to 91 or whatever year the torque rating went to 300lbs (stronger 2nd and 3rd)
I HOPE I DON'T GRENADE IT!!!!!! TOO SOON........

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Naw, with 300rwhp, t-5's survive 5k launches on slicks :) for a little while... :eek:

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Outran what looked to be a mid 90's vette tonight, I wasn't looking to race but he was so...... I had to let him get me off the line as I'll smoke the street tires in 1st,I could see the back of his car when I shifted to 2nd not too hard as to not smoke the tires, feathered it untill I could lay into it without spinning and shot past him pretty quick, AND I could hear his motor was at WOT, I hit 3rd hard it chirped pretty good with him now looking at the back of my car :) and pulled him bad through 3rd :)

LOVE IT !!!!!

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

haha awsome...i can top that though...i had a honda blow up next to me when he revved it wayyy to far past redline...you should have seen the look on the guys face!...i think his valve and piston had a unwelcome meeting...

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Ok you got a LT1 kill now move up the foodchain and smoke an LS1.

Nothing is sweeter than pulling an LS1 from a roll. My car can go 109mph in the 1/4 and I have killed my fair share. I cant wait to drop in my 331. :D

Nice kill,

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Dark, you run an 8 flat at 86mph in the 1/8.
That's awesome, I'm just hoping for 8.30's or so, of course my car weighs 3350lbs

Re: HELP disappointing time slips!!!!
 

Funny you mention that, every tranny is different although rated the closely the same. I had a buddy blow his and he wasn't pushing more than 250rwhp. Knock on wood, but my tranny is the only thing stock on my car. It's got some low 11 sec passes on it with some 1.6 60ft's. I even had to run my 17inch 99 cobra wheels (heavy as sh*t) at a FFW event and pulled them off the ground. Launched at 5500 rpms. Ole faithfull T5 still going! lol