HELP...engine "catches" but no start..???

DZEE'S LX · 09-05-2002, 03:04 PM

This one really takes me surprise because my car has always fired right up.

Drove to work this morning and everything was normal. Got in to go to lunch and it won't start at all. As soon as you hit the key it "catches" and then dies. It's like it fires on a few cyclinders and then it just dies. When I give it part throttle it revs a little higher before it dies.
I thought maybe somebody had messed with my car but I can't find anything wrong. The only thing that happened since I parked this morning was a light rain. I have the two openings in the ram air hood but I can't see any water in the engine compartment or around the distributor. Since I did all my engine work this spring I've had it in rain before. Fuel pump is priming the system just like usual. I flipped the reset button on the fuel shutoff switch and it did the same thing for the first few tries and then the starter just cranks away - just like it is supposed to when the fuel pressure is bled off. Hit the switch reset button and it's back to the same thing. Fuel pressure gauge reads about 25 psi with the key off. I think it has plenty of pressure.

Checked all the wires under the hood (and under the solanoid cover but everything seems good. All fuses are good.

Sound familiar to anyone. Any QUICK advice would be great cause I gotta get home somehow tonight. All my tools are at home but there are some people that have some here.

Thanks,
Dan

fiveohpatrol · 09-05-2002, 05:20 PM

have someone start the car while you are reading the fuel pressure gage. It sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me, not ignition. Has the fuel filter been changed recently?

Even though the fuel pump primes, it doesnt necessarily mean it is working properly. It could prime just fine, and then die off while running.

See what the pressure is while running, and then go from there.

DZEE'S LX · 09-05-2002, 06:09 PM

I watched my fuel pressure gage.
It reads about 30 psi with key off
Reads 45 psi when the pump primes
Moves between 40 - 45 when the engine catches.

I discovered that after it sits for a couple hours it sputters and runs for about a second, then dies. Then it's back to the same thing where it just catches a bit and then dies.

???????

DZEE'S LX · 09-06-2002, 01:04 AM

O.K..... dug into it after work and boiled it down to something electrical that stops spark after you let the starter come back to "on" from the starter position.
I suspected the coil but the new (Ford) one doesn't make any difference.
It seemed like the engine would run "sputter" longer when you hold the starter engaged. It started and ran a few times but it was for no more than 10 second and it would keep missing and then would suddenly die.
That made me think the ignition switch was not keeping power on after releasing the starter. I had the recall work done on the ignition switch many years ago. But now I can see power is going to the coil positive side with the key on and engine off. I dismantled the steering column shroud and dashborad but cant seem to find any loose wires. The times that it did start it seemed like it was after I kept pushing and pulling on the ignition switch. However each time the engine would die I wasn't touching the ignition.

What else could cause a lack of power to the coil????

Unfortuneatly it is still sitting in the parking lot at work tonight. That makes me nervous but I doubt if anyone could get it started.....

Any suggestions?????

Dan

Bad89stang · 09-06-2002, 01:42 AM

I don't know much about distributers, but I heard that the module on the front of the distributer can go bad. This could be a possible solution. Maybe someone else can elaborate or tell me if it is not a possibility.

fiveohpatrol · 09-06-2002, 10:05 AM

It's called the TFI module, and that is a very good suggestion on what could be the problem.

DZEE'S LX · 09-06-2002, 11:22 AM

I had a couple people here at work mention that. One guy said he had an 89 that was acting sort of the same way and a new TFI fixed it. The other guy said his old Ranger had one go bad. He said he needed a special tool to get it off. Is that true of (stock) Mustang distributors?

What does TFI stand for and what does it do? How much are they?

Anybody else have problems with these? I also heard that a bad coil will waste the TFI. True/False?

Thanks

Bad89stang · 09-06-2002, 11:31 AM

I believe it requires a torx bit or maybe the special torx bit with the cut out in the center. I forgot what they are called, but you have to have one to pull out the ignition switch also. Check and see. Most auto parts stores will carry either one along with Sears.

I think the TFI module allows the computer to control the timing.

USMC302 · 09-06-2002, 11:50 AM

Yeah, got mine at Auto Zone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that if you have a BAD module the car will not start at all, it won't catch any fire as his is.....

Maybe you should pull a plug or two and see what they look like.

DZEE'S LX · 09-06-2002, 09:33 PM

It was the TFI module.
A buddy had a used one that he keeps for troubleshooting purposes.
After buying the stupid special tool (Great idea Ford) I swapped it in and it runs perfect.
Will probably buy a new one now that I know that is the culprit.

Thanks for the good advice!!!!!!

Bad89stang · 09-07-2002, 02:16 AM

I will PM my address so that you can ship the case of beer. Just kidding. Glad to hear it is fixed.

09-05-2002, 03:04 PM	#1
DZEE'S LX Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 117	HELP...engine "catches" but no start..??? This one really takes me surprise because my car has always fired right up. Drove to work this morning and everything was normal. Got in to go to lunch and it won't start at all. As soon as you hit the key it "catches" and then dies. It's like it fires on a few cyclinders and then it just dies. When I give it part throttle it revs a little higher before it dies. I thought maybe somebody had messed with my car but I can't find anything wrong. The only thing that happened since I parked this morning was a light rain. I have the two openings in the ram air hood but I can't see any water in the engine compartment or around the distributor. Since I did all my engine work this spring I've had it in rain before. Fuel pump is priming the system just like usual. I flipped the reset button on the fuel shutoff switch and it did the same thing for the first few tries and then the starter just cranks away - just like it is supposed to when the fuel pressure is bled off. Hit the switch reset button and it's back to the same thing. Fuel pressure gauge reads about 25 psi with the key off. I think it has plenty of pressure. Checked all the wires under the hood (and under the solanoid cover but everything seems good. All fuses are good. Sound familiar to anyone. Any QUICK advice would be great cause I gotta get home somehow tonight. All my tools are at home but there are some people that have some here. Thanks, Dan __________________ Spec Service (UHP), BFG G-Force KDW's, Turbo Coupe 3.55 rear w/disks, 73mm calipers, Stg 1 Twisted Wedges, TFS Street Intake, 70mm TB, E cam, Crane 1.7's, Aeromotive FPR, BBK 1 5/8 shorties, elec fan, FMS Al Radiator, Moroso Wires, Kenne Bell Ramair, March pulleys, Race Magnums, 190 lph Walbro, FMS Al Dshaft, D/S loop, MM 4point rollbar, FMS C spngs, strut tower brace, Tokico Illuminas, Prothane bushings, MM Lwr Conrol Arms, KB welded subs, Cervini Mach 1 hood/valence/side skirts/wing/airdam.

09-05-2002, 05:20 PM	#2
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	have someone start the car while you are reading the fuel pressure gage. It sounds like a fuel delivery problem to me, not ignition. Has the fuel filter been changed recently? Even though the fuel pump primes, it doesnt necessarily mean it is working properly. It could prime just fine, and then die off while running. See what the pressure is while running, and then go from there. __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

09-05-2002, 06:09 PM	#3
DZEE'S LX Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 117	I watched my fuel pressure gage. It reads about 30 psi with key off Reads 45 psi when the pump primes Moves between 40 - 45 when the engine catches. I discovered that after it sits for a couple hours it sputters and runs for about a second, then dies. Then it's back to the same thing where it just catches a bit and then dies. ??????? __________________ Spec Service (UHP), BFG G-Force KDW's, Turbo Coupe 3.55 rear w/disks, 73mm calipers, Stg 1 Twisted Wedges, TFS Street Intake, 70mm TB, E cam, Crane 1.7's, Aeromotive FPR, BBK 1 5/8 shorties, elec fan, FMS Al Radiator, Moroso Wires, Kenne Bell Ramair, March pulleys, Race Magnums, 190 lph Walbro, FMS Al Dshaft, D/S loop, MM 4point rollbar, FMS C spngs, strut tower brace, Tokico Illuminas, Prothane bushings, MM Lwr Conrol Arms, KB welded subs, Cervini Mach 1 hood/valence/side skirts/wing/airdam.

09-06-2002, 01:04 AM	#4
DZEE'S LX Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 117	O.K..... dug into it after work and boiled it down to something electrical that stops spark after you let the starter come back to "on" from the starter position. I suspected the coil but the new (Ford) one doesn't make any difference. It seemed like the engine would run "sputter" longer when you hold the starter engaged. It started and ran a few times but it was for no more than 10 second and it would keep missing and then would suddenly die. That made me think the ignition switch was not keeping power on after releasing the starter. I had the recall work done on the ignition switch many years ago. But now I can see power is going to the coil positive side with the key on and engine off. I dismantled the steering column shroud and dashborad but cant seem to find any loose wires. The times that it did start it seemed like it was after I kept pushing and pulling on the ignition switch. However each time the engine would die I wasn't touching the ignition. What else could cause a lack of power to the coil???? Unfortuneatly it is still sitting in the parking lot at work tonight. That makes me nervous but I doubt if anyone could get it started..... Any suggestions????? Dan __________________ Spec Service (UHP), BFG G-Force KDW's, Turbo Coupe 3.55 rear w/disks, 73mm calipers, Stg 1 Twisted Wedges, TFS Street Intake, 70mm TB, E cam, Crane 1.7's, Aeromotive FPR, BBK 1 5/8 shorties, elec fan, FMS Al Radiator, Moroso Wires, Kenne Bell Ramair, March pulleys, Race Magnums, 190 lph Walbro, FMS Al Dshaft, D/S loop, MM 4point rollbar, FMS C spngs, strut tower brace, Tokico Illuminas, Prothane bushings, MM Lwr Conrol Arms, KB welded subs, Cervini Mach 1 hood/valence/side skirts/wing/airdam.

09-06-2002, 01:42 AM	#5
Bad89stang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 456	I don't know much about distributers, but I heard that the module on the front of the distributer can go bad. This could be a possible solution. Maybe someone else can elaborate or tell me if it is not a possibility. __________________ You're gonna need your seatbelt

09-06-2002, 10:05 AM	#6
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	It's called the TFI module, and that is a very good suggestion on what could be the problem. __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

09-06-2002, 11:22 AM	#7
DZEE'S LX Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 117	I had a couple people here at work mention that. One guy said he had an 89 that was acting sort of the same way and a new TFI fixed it. The other guy said his old Ranger had one go bad. He said he needed a special tool to get it off. Is that true of (stock) Mustang distributors? What does TFI stand for and what does it do? How much are they? Anybody else have problems with these? I also heard that a bad coil will waste the TFI. True/False? Thanks __________________ Spec Service (UHP), BFG G-Force KDW's, Turbo Coupe 3.55 rear w/disks, 73mm calipers, Stg 1 Twisted Wedges, TFS Street Intake, 70mm TB, E cam, Crane 1.7's, Aeromotive FPR, BBK 1 5/8 shorties, elec fan, FMS Al Radiator, Moroso Wires, Kenne Bell Ramair, March pulleys, Race Magnums, 190 lph Walbro, FMS Al Dshaft, D/S loop, MM 4point rollbar, FMS C spngs, strut tower brace, Tokico Illuminas, Prothane bushings, MM Lwr Conrol Arms, KB welded subs, Cervini Mach 1 hood/valence/side skirts/wing/airdam.

09-06-2002, 11:31 AM	#8
Bad89stang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 456	I believe it requires a torx bit or maybe the special torx bit with the cut out in the center. I forgot what they are called, but you have to have one to pull out the ignition switch also. Check and see. Most auto parts stores will carry either one along with Sears. I think the TFI module allows the computer to control the timing. __________________ You're gonna need your seatbelt Last edited by Bad89stang; 09-06-2002 at 11:50 AM..

09-06-2002, 11:50 AM	#9
USMC302 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Gallatin, Tn Posts: 1,326	Yeah, got mine at Auto Zone. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that if you have a BAD module the car will not start at all, it won't catch any fire as his is..... Maybe you should pull a plug or two and see what they look like. __________________

09-06-2002, 09:33 PM	#10
DZEE'S LX Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 117	FIXED!!! It was the TFI module. A buddy had a used one that he keeps for troubleshooting purposes. After buying the stupid special tool (Great idea Ford) I swapped it in and it runs perfect. Will probably buy a new one now that I know that is the culprit. Thanks for the good advice!!!!!! __________________ Spec Service (UHP), BFG G-Force KDW's, Turbo Coupe 3.55 rear w/disks, 73mm calipers, Stg 1 Twisted Wedges, TFS Street Intake, 70mm TB, E cam, Crane 1.7's, Aeromotive FPR, BBK 1 5/8 shorties, elec fan, FMS Al Radiator, Moroso Wires, Kenne Bell Ramair, March pulleys, Race Magnums, 190 lph Walbro, FMS Al Dshaft, D/S loop, MM 4point rollbar, FMS C spngs, strut tower brace, Tokico Illuminas, Prothane bushings, MM Lwr Conrol Arms, KB welded subs, Cervini Mach 1 hood/valence/side skirts/wing/airdam.

09-07-2002, 02:16 AM	#11
Bad89stang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Ft. Worth, TX Posts: 456	I will PM my address so that you can ship the case of beer. Just kidding. Glad to hear it is fixed. __________________ You're gonna need your seatbelt

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