Help me Pick What Heads...
 

Okay... I am about to embark on the greatest journey for all mustang lovers, a new motor. I am looking to either have a local shop rebuild my shortblock or purchase a crate shortblack from DSS, Keith Craft, Central Coast, etc. (any thoughs on that are welsome as well). I'm thinking an E cam but maybe Crane's version of the E cam. But when it comes to the heads I am stumped. My only real criteria is that I want to spend less than a grand ($1000) on them. I want max flow because in the near furture, a blower or at the very least a 150 hp shot will be in the making. So this is what I think my choices are (if there is some that I am overlooking, let me know):

(1) Trickflow Tisted Wedge
(2) Edelbrock Performer
(3) AFR
(4) Brodix
(5) GT-40X
(6) Other

If you only want to spend a $1000, I'd get the Trick Flow Twisted Wedge Heads. Get a shortblock from D.S.S., then you'd know it was built right, and you'd probaly get it quicker, and it would probaly be cheaper or about the same price as a local.

Yeah go with the Trick Flows. I am gonna use the R-series next time. I think for a thousand bucks they are the better buy.

Brad

Okay, well then here's another question. Why are all the DSS shortblocks a $100 more if you are going to use TFS TW heads?

Probably because the valve reliefs in the pistons are different.

TFS are ok but I like the aluminum World Products Windsor SR. I have the Windsor JR on mine because its just a 302 with mild mods. But for max flow and PRICE the SRs are a good choice. The cast iorn SRs are even more cheap.:D

if you want to spend under $1000.00, you already eliminated half the choices in your poll. Did you do price research first?

I am think the AFR's are the best out of the box out there But You did say 1000 or less and those are 1300+ for a 1000 I would say get the TFS heads are the next best thing and they are in your range you are looking for too.

I have had 2 sets of TW's, a set of 6037's and a set of GT-40's on my 93 Cobra I had. I like the TW's best of all. I got mine for %950, O-Ringed, and from Saleen, who is notorious for jacking prices up. I dunno why these were so cheap.

TW's perform a litle better than the 165's, and a lot betther than the rest on that list.

I think the AFR's are better but they are both very close The Flow ### for the AFR a very good and so are the TFS But down low the Ex on the AFR's is better and they come with stuff like a 5 angle job out of the box BUT the TFS With same work done will be better so it is up to you what you get. Mine 165's flowed better than what AFR said by all most 8 cfm the ex side that is and 2 less on the Intake side then what they say But the heads will work very good with a Blower or NO2 with the Flowing of the EX side being so good on the heads.
But it is very hard to compare the 2 the AFR 165 have 1.90 Intake on them get very close too the TW that are 2.02 they flow a bit better up high like 2-6cfm better but that meand the 165 have a higher velocity on the air that is goin In and helps make the gas mix a bit better and yes the TW in some times do better and the same with the AFR's too BUT lest say the 185 they are 2.02 Intake and it is Far Better than the TW (More Flow) on the Intake side. Sorry I amd not saying the TW are Bad they are Very good And Yes a better price too But it all realy matters on what the combo realy is.
I am not saying you dont know what you are talking about Heck I am not saying i realy know what I am talking about.

I have gained about 60rwhp from the unported TFS head/Holley intake swap. The TFS heads will outflow the AFR 165's mostly because the AFR 165's have smaller valves. The AFR 185's are probably the best head around right now but you cant use them on a stock shortblock without notching your stock pistons(which is risky) or buing a new set of dished pistons.

The TFS heads and the AFR 185's both have 202 intake valves but the Trick flows are cantered at an angle so the large valves will clear the pistons while the AFR's will not.

However ALL AFR heads come cnc ported too while the TFS heads are not.......but then again the TFS heads are about 400 bucks cheaper and can be CNC ported for a few extra bucks too.

TFS

So if I were to go with the TFS heads, would they work without getting new pistons? I am going to bebuild, but I wasn't planning on getting new pistons unless I had to.

with 170K on motor, you should buy the AFR 185's (best available) and buy new pistons that will work with them.

Here is my idea, get the new block with new pistons. But get the inline valves instead of the TW's which are 100.00 or so more. Save up two hundred more dollars plus the one hundred you saved by not getting the TW pistons and get the AFR 185's. Dyno testing has shown that the 185's don't lose out on the low end compared to the 165's, and they gain a lot more on the top end. Unlike a world products JR vs. SR head on the same set up. What is 200.00 more when you are already spending a couple thousand? Do it right the first time so you don't have to do it again. I may be a little partial to the AFR's because I have them, but before you buy the heads get a chance to see each one in person if you can. I think you will be sold on them as well.

Fordmuscle.com did a shoot-out between all the popular heads out there and one thing that I was VERY suprised at was the GT-40X heads. They tested the to flow 235 CFM (at .7 lift on the intake side) and 167 CFM (at .6 lift on the exhaust). That compared to the Edelbrock Performers (215 CFM intake at .6 lift, 179 CFM exhaust at .7 lift) was interesting. And then compared to TFS heads, (242 CFM intake at .6 lift, 198 CFM exhaust at .7 lift) they are not much worse. They didn't test AFR heads. Does anyone now what the numbers on the AFR heads (out of the box) are?

If I am not mistaken they are rated at 270 and 190 cfm intake and exhaust. MM&FF got 273 and 191 out of the box, if i'm not mistaken. For the 185's that is. There are a couple of places that sell the 185's and the 165's for the same price, pedistal or stud mount.

This place has ported AFR 165's and 185's for the same price ($1299)

http://www.totalengineairflow.com/pr...head/index.htm

Just don't use a Edelbrock Vic 5.0 efi intake with the 185cc heads, you'll have to a bit of port matching to get it to work

If you're going for a N/A 306 you don't need anything more than the 165cc runner heads like the TFS TW, or the AFR 165's. Since the AFR's are way more than $1k, and the TFS TW outflow them (everywhere from what I've seen), it cuts down the options.

The Windsor heads are crap at low lifts, and from the flow data, you can see how linear their flow rate is. They also have very large runners which hurts port velocity. If you talk to the guys who run TFS heads, they have great low end, along with superior top end.

The GT40x head flow numbers I've seen haven't been all that impressive compared to AFR's or TFS's.

ok at ................ Intake............................. EX
.200 lift the TW:125 AFR:123 .......... TW:104 AFR:118
.300 lift the TW:187 AFR:186 .......... TW:139 AFR:153
.400 lift the TW:226 AFR:225 .......... TW:166 AFR:178
.500 lift the TW:241 AFR:250 .......... TW:187 AFR:185
.600 lift the TW:242 AFR:250 .......... TW:193 AFR:191


Ok All that said
................ Intake..................... EX
.200.... TW by 2cfm........ AFR by 14cfm
.300.... TW by 1cfm........ AFR by 14cfm
.400.... TW by 1cfm........ AFR by 12cfm
.500.... AFR by 9cfm........ TW by 2cfm
.600.... AFR by 8cfm........ TW by 2cfm
OK the Heads are very Close with the AFR beating the TW By a BIT ...... need to rember that the AFR are 1.90 valves 165CC runners and the TW are 2.02 valves 170CC runners so that being said the AFR have a bit better Velocity but very cloes with only 5CC diff in the Runners next the TW are 61cc Cambers and the AFR are 58cc one you can get they have a 62cc I want to say not 100% sure. But any how the 61cc to 58cc, the 58 cc heads will make a bit more Compression and help make more power.
SO the AFR are Better out of the box in air Flow wise I THINK might be depatable Flow ## can vary on both heads.... BUT the Added Compression on the AFR with Make More Power Hands down!!!
So It Looks EZ the AFR heads are Better out of the box right!!!BUT!!!!!! BUT!!!!!! the AFR heads are about $300 more If you want could get the TW and do $300 in work to it and Yes I would be better than the AFR's are...... The TW ARE a VERY good head!!! And for a $1,000 it is the best head out there!!!!!
Out of the BOX the AFR are the best.... It is Up to you.....

With all thing considered AFR's for $1250 are the best bet!

What about the quality issues with the TW heads. Valve guild wear...??

From what I here the new ones have been fixed it was only the frist ones that came out all new ones are fixed now If you get it used Some here Might be able to help you tell them apart.

I like my AFR's too... not a problem with them in a year of daily driving..... FWIW... flow numbers at .600-.700 lift are meaningless unless you are running a cam that big.. you have to check piston to valve clearance with either head with a big cam...duration is as much or more of a factor than lift.. better safe than sorry...

I like my Dart SR aluminum heads, they flow 295cfm intake, and 195cfm exhaust. Oh yeah i only paid $950 for 'em:D

are the dart sr's smog legal? kinda big for a mild street car..

yeah they are smog legal, but i've got the smog holes in the back of the heads blocked off anyways, it's not like it would pass a "real" inspection considering it's a carb setup, no smog pump, no cats, etc. As of March this year, all cars in all the major cities down here in Texas will have to be dynoed anyway, inspections are going up in price to around $40.00. Most people don't even know about this unfortunately.:( I'm going to get my car reinspected the last week of february before the price goes up:D .

we've been doing that test for years... a big PITA, thats why I run all the smog stuff.. to much of a hassle to put it on every couple years.. mines carbed originally, so I dont have to worry about that..most of the places here, the people dont have a clue if it should be carbed or not... they just test it.. heheh

Yea 4 counties around here will get the emmissions testing around sanantonio, but the newspaper said it wont happen until 2005, i know i wont pass:(
but back to the heads, my friend got some tfs heads, he said he had to do 300$ worth of work on them, the out of the box guides, springs and keepers are crap, his car does haul some serious arse though.

im going edel or afr for the pedestal mount rockers so i dont have to buy new ones, screw the flow #'s, anything beats e7's

Damn dude,this is an OLD THREAD! LOL.

what heads
 

Iv'e been looking at heads for a long time, and Id say go with the Trick Flow twisted Wedge there $1000
If money is no object go with the AFR 165 or 185 heads $1300
remember that you have to buy Roller rockers/pushrods/lifters with new heads. The power you get from these is gonna be very close to the same. :) check out both there web sites and read the specs and flow rates...

Re: Help me Pick What Heads...
 

It is 2010 now and you can buy a complete 306 from Ford including carb and distributor for $3500!