Supercharged 351W. SCAT Forged everything setup. Engine build.

[Fox Body]

I just got finished talking with SCAT Crankshafts and No Limit (a Mustang shop and procharger dealer in Atlanta, GA), to get some facts straight.

Low compression (8.5 - 8.8:1, using 24 cc dish pistons) carbureted 351W with ~15 lbs boost from Procharger D1-SC intercooled blower.

My plan was to go with a SCAT setup (forged everything). Planning on getting the AFR 185s (64cc). Gonna stick with the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold. With stock stroke crank, and 24cc dish pistons, I'd be running the compression mentioned above. I expect at least 550-650 fwhp. The forged rods are supposed to be I-beam rods.

I need some help guys.

This is what they quoted me for the internals for a 8.5 - 8.8:1 compression 351W:

Combo and Pricing:

forged steel crank-- $690
forged Rods (some special Chevy rods???)-- $320
~24cc forged dish pistons -- $500
rings -- $90
bearings -- $150
harmonic balancer and flywheel balanced to match motor -- $150
shipping & handling (I have to send it there, to CA, of course) -- Don't know, but sure it's over $150
SubTotal -- $2050 (minimum)

NOT TO MENTION the money to put it all together by my engine builder down here in GA = $800 - $850

Net Total = $2900 for the motor alone.

Let's add some good free flowing heads, AFR 185s-- $1500 + turning block into a roller with good blower roller cam, lifters, pushrods -- $300 (my guess, not sure on price, but it's probably more). Then let's add the Procharger D1SC blower+intercooler system -- $3800

Grand TOTAL = (at least) $7000

Even though it may seem so, my problem is NOT primarily on the cost (although, of course, it is a great concern). I do understand that this is an expensive hobby.

Some Points:

------Who (which company) do I consult about a good blower roller cam for this combo? AFR (the guys who I get the heads from)? Crane? Lunati?
------BTW, the guy told me they were ~6" (i think) "I-beam" rods. And when I called b4, I he told me these were special Chevy rods, I thnk. Why these special Chevy rods -- maybe I heard wrong, but I don't think so.
------He said the crank was a crank with the stock 3" main journal (and I suppose w/ the stock 3.5" stroke).
------I was told that SCAT has a very good reputation.

I basically need someone I can sit down and discuss this with, but I don't see that happening. Still though, I press on. Any advice is appreciated.

Sometimes, the only place I have to go to ask these types of questions is here at Mustang Works, but in the past, I haven't had too many replies to the posts. I just need some confirming advise from those who have gone through something similar or who are knowledgeable in this area. Thanks.

[chico]

Cannot answer all your questions..too many variables?? suggest you contact Cole at Hamilton Clarke Ind. (916) 643-2010..he can answer all your questions and build the motor you want...if not I know he will work with you..just tell him you were reffered by thelast cobra motor he built (515 rwhp) Larry in Manteca Ca.

[Fox Body]

thanks chico.

[BilLster]

after all that why a stock stroke ? also scat makes a stoke stroke with Ford Journal sizes?? for the same price you can get a stroker crank and 302 style pistons on ford rods that will net you 393/395/ comp of 8-8.5 depending on heads etc.

but its your money and combo.

Also for the pistons before you order confirm which heads your getting as it will change piston requirements on ther cc and how you can port them to lower (ie raising the roof) the cc

just things to think about.

[302 LX Eric]

Just adding a few random thoughts here:

1) Why I-beams and not H-beams? If you're spending this much and building a legitmate 600 HP beast, I would put forged H-beams in there. What you pick-up in weight on the H-beams, you can save in a strong but lightweight piston.

2) I have heard very good things about SCAT. Quality stuff.

3) I too, would wonder why you wouldn't give her a little stroke while you're in there? Maybe even to just 377?

4) As far as discussing you entire combo, can't your engine builder sit down with you? I made like 3 trips down to my engine builder (80 miles roundtrip) before we gave it the green light. That way we both agreed on EVERYTHING before any money was spent.

5) Camshaft selection is cruicial. I would call up Anderson, Comp Cams, Bennett, et al. Talk through with them what you're looking for and I'm sure you will get good advice and some different options to consider. More information the better.

6) One other option to consider may be to call up Keith Kraft, DSS or Coast and have them build the entire short or long block for you.

7) Last thing, when I built my 331 this summer, I didn't really account for all the little stuff like LockWire gaskets ($110!!!), Torington bearing block protector ($65), cam bearings, ductile iron rings (for future D-1SC too!), engine paint, new high flow water pump, Canton 7 qt. oil pan ($260), etc, etc. You get the idea. You're spending ALOT of money here so make sure you get exactly what you want and that you very comfortable with your choices.

Good luck,
E

PS - If you would like to discuss your combo with my engine builder, let me know via PM or email and I'll see what I can setup. He's built race motors, chassis work, etc. for many years.

[Fox Body]

Originally posted by 302 LX Eric
...
6) One other option to consider may be to call up Keith Kraft, DSS or Coast and have them build the entire short or long block for you.

7) Last thing, when I built my 331 this summer, I didn't really account for all the little stuff like LockWire gaskets ($110!!!), Torington bearing block protector ($65), cam bearings, ductile iron rings (for future D-1SC too!), engine paint, new high flow water pump, Canton 7 qt. oil pan ($260), etc, etc. You get the idea. You're spending ALOT of money here so make sure you get exactly what you want and that you very comfortable with your choices....

Eric, I appreciate the time you took to (make sense out of all my mumbo jumbo and) reply to this message.

Earlier today, from a suggestion from a friend of mine who has a DSS motor in a 96 Mystic Cobra, I called DSS and had a good talk with them. To make a long story short, I'm looking at an entire long block (includes AFR 185s) minus the intake at the specs mentioned above for under $7000. This seems like a very good deal and takes a LOT of the headache out of building it myself or coming up with the intricate pieces for the puzzle. This takes a lot of the guess work out of it.

Roller block (all forged steel) with H-beam rods, timing chain cover, oil pan, valve covers (Ford Racing).

I need to call Kieth Craft, Sean Hyland, Central Coast Mustang and see what they can offer me also.

IT seems that I have found something here. You mentioned some things in #7 that I will have to talk to DSS (and the others) about. Thanks.

[302 LX Eric]

I think in your situation, going with DSS to build the entire long block is a good idea. One thing that I didn't realize when doing my 331 was all the required machine work. Having the block magna-fluxed to check for cracks, boring .030" over, torque plate honing, etc. Plus, once my engine builder started assembling everything we found that the girdle needed some minor clearancing for the Canton oil pickup mechanism. In addition, the oil control (windage tray) needed some grinding to fit as well. And don't forget about spin balancing everything. This can be very expensive (up to $500). With DSS doing everything (and doing it day in and day out) they will deal with all this.

In the end, it was well worth it. But, I was expecting everything to fit without any issues (maybe I was just too niave).

DSS does good work. I spoke to Tom Neagle (owner of DSS) on several occasions about my particular setup and what I wanted to do and listened to his advice along with several other companies just to make sure I was getting straight talk. And I was.

Just a quick example of DSS' customer service: When I took my stroker package to my local race engine builder, they called me back a couple hours later to tell me that my 4340 Forged Steel crank was 'out of tolerance' on the journals. My engine builder and race shop said that we could go ahead and use the crank (the material was great) but that the tolerances were slightly out on one of the journals and that they would recommend getting a new one since this is a high-performance engine. So, I called up Tom and he said no problem, just send me back the old crank and I'll send you out a new one as soon as I receive the old one. And sure enough, within a weeks time I received a brand new 4340 crank. Machine shop said the new crank was well within tolerance and so we proceeded from there.

Sorry to ramble, hope this helps.
E

[Fox Body]

Originally posted by 302 LX Eric
...In the end, it was well worth it. But, I was expecting everything to fit without any issues (maybe I was just too niave)....

Sorry to ramble, hope this helps.
E

Well, I am and have learned a lot through all of this. I talked to DSS and got some real good news. I also talked to Wynne Speed and got some good news also. The engine combo WS suggests includes a DART block. I don't know about DSS. WS told me it's good to over 1000 hp.

Haven't been able to talk to Coast or the others yet. Any opinions? I hear and feel that DSS is a great company of high quality, but for me to be honest and thorough, I gotta check out some other places so right now I'm just kinda going through the motions, writing the info from diff companies down and going through my options.

Thanks again for your help, Eric.