Impressions of the Holley Intake.

Skyman · 06-23-2002, 09:03 PM

Well I got my car all up and running with the holley intake and 1.72 rockers.

I have to say I am nothing but disappointed. It does pull a bit harder up top, to about 5900-6000rpm now.

But the lowend loss of power is HUGE.

My car used to pull HARD from 2500. Now it takes near 4000rpm to get good power.

The Holley intake was MUCH bigger than my old edelbrock so I guess thats the price I pay.

The track will tell the differences. But driving on the street certainly isnt as fun as it was.

Skyler

Oldschoolpony · 06-23-2002, 10:14 PM

What are the specs on the cam? Lift, durration? Your compression seems a bit mild for what you have. your other post you said like 145? 175 would be nice, close to 200 maybe. You'd be stuck running premium gas, but the pwoer at the bottum would come back.

Whats the power range on the intake and heads? Thats running hot is probably your attempt at raising the timing.

Skyman · 06-23-2002, 10:42 PM

282/282 duration at .530 lift.

Skyler

Unit 5302 · 06-24-2002, 12:04 AM

Uh-oh. Sky's falling asleep.

282*/282* 220*/220* (going to be a degree or two more with the rockers)@.500 .530"/.530" LCA 107*/117*, LSA 110*

Compression is nice to have when attempting to make max power, he should already be a little over 9.0:1.

Bottom line is the Holley was touted to be a good low rpm intake while still making excellent top end power. Apparently, it's not nearly as good in the lower rpms as it's made out to be?

Do you think any of the lower rpm loss may have come from the increased duration at .050 and the ported headers, Sky?

Oldschoolpony · 06-24-2002, 01:49 AM

lift, not that it make a differnece, but take the lift at the cam lobe and multiply it by 1.72, then there's the lift at the valve.

Im running a carbed set up, and my durration at 50 is 245 intake and 255 exhaust with 595 lift in and 615 ex lift with 1.6's but 347 and 302 is apples to oranges. That isnt a wild cam and shouldnt be the problem. at least not as dramatic a power loss as your saying........ Maybe the car is running lean, you did say it was running hot. You gace it more air, but it might be lacking fuel

Skyman · 06-24-2002, 03:26 AM

I think the autoparts store gave me a stock thermo, thats why I think it was running hot. Or I thought so, because I used to have a 180.

It was running strong tonight topend, but lowend still sucks bad.

Im gonna play w/ itmore tommorrow, probably just run 38deg total timing.

Skyler

Stroked408 · 06-25-2002, 09:26 PM

Damn partner,
sorry to hear about that with the Holley,it had me sold on thinking it was a better all-around intake.

Call me hard headed but I still believe the FRPP stuff is good to go,the Cobra/GT40 intake is the one that started it up for all these other followers we have now.

I was reading that other thread about 12 high 11 sec intakes and that is some good reading.

On behalf of the Holley though you see it on almost all the supercharged Renegade cars so it must be good in a blown application.

I would say put your old inatke back on,see what happens and go from there,hell what's it going to hurt unless you sold it to cover the tab on the Holley

fiveohpatrol · 06-25-2002, 09:39 PM

Just curious, which Edelbrock did you have? the performer or RPM?

Mach 1 · 06-25-2002, 11:36 PM

he had the performer, and should have went with the performer RPM upper and would have been all set in my opinion.

The holley isnt the ideal intake for your combination. The ports on that thing are HUGE!

sn95gt19 · 06-26-2002, 12:24 PM

i know this might sound a little stupid but, when you adjusted your rockers its possible that you put them a little too tight, and you are losing compression. just a suggestion cause i know someone who has done that.

exgmguy · 06-26-2002, 11:39 PM

My motor is almost a clone of Sky's and mine runs like a freight train.

Skyman · 06-27-2002, 01:33 AM

Rob- what were your compression numbers?

Sky

exgmguy · 06-27-2002, 04:27 PM

They were all right around 160 psi.

Here is how I adjust valves. 1/2 turn past zero lash. When the exhaust valve just starts to open, I adjust the same cylinders intake valve. When that intake valve is almost closed, I adjust that cylinders exhaust valve. Crank it over with a ratchet and go from cylinder to cylinder.

LX4Play · 06-29-2002, 02:19 PM

Skyman,

I think that you may be running lean if you are untuned since the intake swap. The Holley has a very big cross sectional area (3.1" sq) compared to the Edelbrock (2.4" sq) per runner. Although, the Holley lower is close to a Felpro 1250 at the opening, unported, which helps to increase velocity when matching up to aftermarket heads (unported)....just at the intake port opening, mind you. This additional airflow volume has definitely changed your fuel requirement, if you haven't already adjusted.
As for the RPM intake, I have run a best of 11.30 @ 122, naturally aspirated, at Carlsbad (with RPM intake). I have since made the switch to the Holley, with no other changes and gained only 3 rwhp, but running way lean. I aslo gained 500 usable rpm from the Holley, for a new peak @ 6,200-6,300 rpm. This was my most beneficial attribute to the Holley. I still need to re-dynotune my combo to get the correct a/f ratio (12.8-13.0:1) I did have to portmatch the lower to a 1262 gasket for a better match to my heads.
The key ingredient to a successful combination is 'consistent cross sectional area' btween the intake runners of the intake and the heads. If your heads do not flow enough air to support the airflow of this intake, then it will not beneficial, as in most out of box heads, unported. The Holley intake was designed to maintain tq production (long runner), while improving peak HP with it's massive runner cross section to meet big airflow demends. I bet if you retune for optimal air/fuel ratio, you will see results!

Skyman · 06-29-2002, 02:25 PM

Thanks for the info. What kind of a combo are you running? 122mph N/A is pretty killer. I'll try adding some more fuel here soon.

Skyler

LX4Play · 06-29-2002, 02:30 PM

I forgot to add my sig....

Skyman · 06-29-2002, 04:07 PM

Are your heads ported? How much does your car weigh? how much compression are you running?

Skyler

Skyman · 06-30-2002, 04:45 PM

Just realized my spout as been out this whole time, so ive been running 19 total timing. Im going to have a friend drive it and try it out.

Skyler

Stang Runner · 06-30-2002, 05:22 PM

I hope that helps it a bit.... I have done the same thing before so dont fell to bad....

LX4Play · 07-02-2002, 10:05 AM

Skyman,

yes, heads are ported by Total Engine Airflow. CNC'd stage 3 with competition 5 angle valve job. Static compression was calculated to be ~11.4:1, but it is closer to 11.2:1 current head gaskets. I don't really know the car's weight, only guess~ 2,900 lbs without me in it. I've had it tuned by Danny Swanson with RPM intake, which ran those times at the JBA event earlier this year.

Andy

06-23-2002, 09:03 PM	#1
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Impressions of the Holley Intake. Well I got my car all up and running with the holley intake and 1.72 rockers. I have to say I am nothing but disappointed. It does pull a bit harder up top, to about 5900-6000rpm now. But the lowend loss of power is HUGE. My car used to pull HARD from 2500. Now it takes near 4000rpm to get good power. The Holley intake was MUCH bigger than my old edelbrock so I guess thats the price I pay. The track will tell the differences. But driving on the street certainly isnt as fun as it was. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-23-2002, 10:14 PM	#2
Oldschoolpony Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Gainsville,Fl Posts: 229	What are the specs on the cam? Lift, durration? Your compression seems a bit mild for what you have. your other post you said like 145? 175 would be nice, close to 200 maybe. You'd be stuck running premium gas, but the pwoer at the bottum would come back. Whats the power range on the intake and heads? Thats running hot is probably your attempt at raising the timing. __________________ http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1546

06-23-2002, 10:42 PM	#3
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	282/282 duration at .530 lift. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-24-2002, 01:49 AM	#5
Oldschoolpony Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Gainsville,Fl Posts: 229	lift, not that it make a differnece, but take the lift at the cam lobe and multiply it by 1.72, then there's the lift at the valve. Im running a carbed set up, and my durration at 50 is 245 intake and 255 exhaust with 595 lift in and 615 ex lift with 1.6's but 347 and 302 is apples to oranges. That isnt a wild cam and shouldnt be the problem. at least not as dramatic a power loss as your saying........ Maybe the car is running lean, you did say it was running hot. You gace it more air, but it might be lacking fuel __________________ http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1546

06-24-2002, 03:26 AM	#6
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	I think the autoparts store gave me a stock thermo, thats why I think it was running hot. Or I thought so, because I used to have a 180. It was running strong tonight topend, but lowend still sucks bad. Im gonna play w/ itmore tommorrow, probably just run 38deg total timing. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-24-2002, 12:04 AM	#4
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	Uh-oh. Sky's falling asleep. 282/282 220/220 (going to be a degree or two more with the rockers)@.500 .530"/.530" LCA 107/117, LSA 110* Compression is nice to have when attempting to make max power, he should already be a little over 9.0:1. Bottom line is the Holley was touted to be a good low rpm intake while still making excellent top end power. Apparently, it's not nearly as good in the lower rpms as it's made out to be? Do you think any of the lower rpm loss may have come from the increased duration at .050 and the ported headers, Sky?

06-25-2002, 09:26 PM	#7
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	Damn partner, sorry to hear about that with the Holley,it had me sold on thinking it was a better all-around intake. Call me hard headed but I still believe the FRPP stuff is good to go,the Cobra/GT40 intake is the one that started it up for all these other followers we have now. I was reading that other thread about 12 high 11 sec intakes and that is some good reading. On behalf of the Holley though you see it on almost all the supercharged Renegade cars so it must be good in a blown application. I would say put your old inatke back on,see what happens and go from there,hell what's it going to hurt unless you sold it to cover the tab on the Holley __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-25-2002, 09:39 PM	#8
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	Just curious, which Edelbrock did you have? the performer or RPM? __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

06-25-2002, 11:36 PM	#9
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	he had the performer, and should have went with the performer RPM upper and would have been all set in my opinion. The holley isnt the ideal intake for your combination. The ports on that thing are HUGE! __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

06-26-2002, 12:24 PM	#10
sn95gt19 motors done......woohooo Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 799	i know this might sound a little stupid but, when you adjusted your rockers its possible that you put them a little too tight, and you are losing compression. just a suggestion cause i know someone who has done that. __________________ 95gt lazer red (98 cobra clone) Rice Haters Club Member #116

06-26-2002, 11:39 PM	#11
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	My motor is almost a clone of Sky's and mine runs like a freight train. __________________ 1988 Mustang GT stock bottom 302, C4 10.9 @ 128 with 8 psi of Novi 1000 boost!----STOLEN 1989 Mustang notchback Warmed up 306 with a Procharger.

06-27-2002, 01:33 AM	#12
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Rob- what were your compression numbers? Sky __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-27-2002, 04:27 PM	#13
exgmguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: Utica, Michigan Posts: 2,631	They were all right around 160 psi. Here is how I adjust valves. 1/2 turn past zero lash. When the exhaust valve just starts to open, I adjust the same cylinders intake valve. When that intake valve is almost closed, I adjust that cylinders exhaust valve. Crank it over with a ratchet and go from cylinder to cylinder.

06-29-2002, 02:19 PM	#14
LX4Play Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 7	Skyman, I think that you may be running lean if you are untuned since the intake swap. The Holley has a very big cross sectional area (3.1" sq) compared to the Edelbrock (2.4" sq) per runner. Although, the Holley lower is close to a Felpro 1250 at the opening, unported, which helps to increase velocity when matching up to aftermarket heads (unported)....just at the intake port opening, mind you. This additional airflow volume has definitely changed your fuel requirement, if you haven't already adjusted. As for the RPM intake, I have run a best of 11.30 @ 122, naturally aspirated, at Carlsbad (with RPM intake). I have since made the switch to the Holley, with no other changes and gained only 3 rwhp, but running way lean. I aslo gained 500 usable rpm from the Holley, for a new peak @ 6,200-6,300 rpm. This was my most beneficial attribute to the Holley. I still need to re-dynotune my combo to get the correct a/f ratio (12.8-13.0:1) I did have to portmatch the lower to a 1262 gasket for a better match to my heads. The key ingredient to a successful combination is 'consistent cross sectional area' btween the intake runners of the intake and the heads. If your heads do not flow enough air to support the airflow of this intake, then it will not beneficial, as in most out of box heads, unported. The Holley intake was designed to maintain tq production (long runner), while improving peak HP with it's massive runner cross section to meet big airflow demends. I bet if you retune for optimal air/fuel ratio, you will see results!

06-29-2002, 02:25 PM	#15
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Thanks for the info. What kind of a combo are you running? 122mph N/A is pretty killer. I'll try adding some more fuel here soon. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-29-2002, 02:30 PM	#16
LX4Play Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 7	combo... I forgot to add my sig.... __________________ '93 LX coupe- N/A 331, TEA TFS-TW's, Holley, 75mm TB, 80mm Pro-m, 36# inj's, MSD digital 6, BBK 1 3/4" LT's, 2 1/2" X-pipe, Spintech mufflers. "Sucks gas and hauls *****!"

06-29-2002, 04:07 PM	#17
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Are your heads ported? How much does your car weigh? how much compression are you running? Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-30-2002, 04:45 PM	#18
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Just realized my spout as been out this whole time, so ive been running 19 total timing. Im going to have a friend drive it and try it out. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-30-2002, 05:22 PM	#19
Stang Runner Registered Member Join Date: Jun 1999 Location: Walker, MI, USA Posts: 1,202	HE HE I hope that helps it a bit.... I have done the same thing before so dont fell to bad.... __________________ Engine: steel mounts, Under drive pulleys, K&N, GT-40 Intake ported Lower, No power steering, No A/C, Mac cold intake, 65MM TB, 255 Fuel pump, 24's, AFR 165 58cc, Rocker Arms 1.7with the stock Cam, 1 5/8 short headers, offRoad X-pipe Drive Train: 3.55, T-5 with a Pro 5.0 shifter 12.656@107.71MPH See It at www.T-racing.com/mustang.htm

07-02-2002, 10:05 AM	#20
LX4Play Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: San Diego, Ca Posts: 7	Skyman, yes, heads are ported by Total Engine Airflow. CNC'd stage 3 with competition 5 angle valve job. Static compression was calculated to be ~11.4:1, but it is closer to 11.2:1 current head gaskets. I don't really know the car's weight, only guess~ 2,900 lbs without me in it. I've had it tuned by Danny Swanson with RPM intake, which ran those times at the JBA event earlier this year. Andy

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