Trick Flow TW or AFR 165's??

[2FastLX]

Which would be better for a street setup on a 5.0? I have a full exhaust with long tubes, a GT-40 intake and plan to have a moderate cam like one of the Trick Flow offerings (not too sure yet). I plan to eventually go with a Turbo setup and want to have the best heads for the job. Also, a 351 may be in the near future.

I can get a set of TW heads with all the springs and such for $950 brand new. Is that a pretty good deal? Thanks.

[BowTie Eater 5 Liter]

Go for the trickflows, they have 2.02 intake /1.60 exhaust valves, the afr 165 have 1.94/1.60 valves, the trick flows will flow better & you can port them... if thats your thing.
a good combo is the trickflow #1 cam, twisted wedge heads, 1.6 rockers, trick flow street intake, that is good for low 12's

950 is a good deal, summit racing sells them for 1025

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1988 Mustang GT, T-5
No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe (Sounds Mean), K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box, Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!).
My Stang This Is What Dynomax Ultra-Flo's Do (Soon To Be On My Stang!)
Future Plans Call For A 351 Windsor

[chris91LX]

I'm planning on going with the AFR's, but I'm not planning on a turbo for my set up either. The November 2000 5.0 Mag had an article testing 11 differen't heads incl. the TFS and AFR, check it out and decide for yourself.

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91 LX 5.0
Z t-5, 3:73 gear, Vortech 73mm Mass Air, Accufab 65mm TB, BBK underdrives, Crane HI-6S Ignition, BBK unequal length headers, Bassani x pipe, 2.5" Dynomax Super Turbo cat back, Kenny Brown Super Subs, Factory Five Control Arms, Mac cold air kit and more to come!

[DemonGT]

id probubly go with the AFR's cause im not into the whole porting thing...

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1991 GT,T-5,air silencer removed,racing clutch(previous owner put in so dont know what kind),K&N air filter,Aiwa deck,power acoustic amp,2 12" pianeers,UPDATE: Just got my Mac long tube headers and Cat-back

Future Mods:3.73's,Pro 5.0,Shifter knob,FMS 9mm wires

[BowTie Eater 5 Liter]

the tfs flow better out of the box, and you can port them later, the valves help it flow better.
the tfs & afr 185's have the same valve size, but again the tfs flow better out of the box. if you port the tfs & 185's, the 185's will flow better, not by much, but only after a good port job

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1988 Mustang GT, T-5
No Smog Pump (Shorty Belt), Dumps At The End Of Stock H-Pipe (Sounds Mean), K&N Air Filter (Stock Air Box, Removed air silendcer), 198.9 rwhp @4200 (235 Motor!!), 285 lbs-ft @2900 (336 Motor!!!).
My Stang This Is What Dynomax Ultra-Flo's Do (Soon To Be On My Stang!)
Future Plans Call For A 351 Windsor

[spinemup]

i hear the afr's are bada$$

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THE MIGHTY NOTCH

[Dark Knight]

I've got the AFR 165's.. they rock.. the ports are WAY nicer than the edelbrocks or ford heads... with a turbo, you need a good flowing exhaust.. intake isnt as big of a deal.. you're forcing the air in anyway.. I'd go AFR, but it's your choice...
oh yeah... whats the deck thickness on the TFS heads? the AFR is 3/4"... the thicker the better...

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84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives shorties
14.16@100.08
and a '68 stang that WAS nasty ;-)
MY ride

[86GT]

Go with the Trick Flows. They'll flow plenty for a healthy 351 down the road (cause you can always port them). I was told by Trick Flow's tech department that the st 1 cam, TW heads, and Street intake would make around 340hp depending on tune.

The AFRs are a nice piece, but they TWs are cheaper and flow more out of the box.

[2FastLX]

I think I'll go with the Trick Flows. I don't plan to get too crazy down the road so they will probably be my best bet.

I was planning on doing a bunch of work in the near future like installing a set of stock ported heads, my intake, TB, MAF, and a bunch of other stuff. I think I'll just start saving for the heads. Thanks guys.

[MiracleMax]

The average port flow for the 185cc AFR's is a tad bit more than the Trick Flows. I agree with Chris, check out the article on the head shootout and decide for yourself. The average flow is about the same (within 1 cfm), The Trickflow's do outflow the AFR's from .300 to .400, but the AFR's outflow the Trickflows from .500 to .600, The AFR's also edge out the Trickflow's from .100 to .200

Another area of comparison is port volume, generally a more efficient port will have a smaller volume, But for the most part I beleive unless there is a large difference then it's pretty much invalid. Probably more telling would be a comparison of cross-section?

AFR's (intake flow @ .28" of water)
.100 = 63
.200 = 132
.300 = 182
.400 = 221
.500 = 249
.600 = 260

TFS (intake at .28" of water)
.100 = 62
.200 = 131
.300 = 193
.400 = 230
.500 = 242
.600 = 242

[Killercanary]

I'd go AFR's. Trick flow had all sorts of problems in the past, and they claim to have fixed them, but my cousin just spoke with Kenne bell and they said that after 10K miles the new trickflows still showed signs of valve guide wear, though it was not as bad as before. And as is illustrated above, the two heads flow within spitting distance of each other, and the AFR flows extremely well on the exhaust side- with a good cam this would result in better scavenging, or with a SC setup and a blower cam, the added exhaust would be beneficial as well. One thing to consider as well, with a 165cc intake runner volume, velocity will be a bit better, which results in better low end torque and HP, plus the AFR flows about the same with a smaller valve, this is also a good thing in terms of efficiency, and streetability. BUT- the trickflow is still a good head and people make great numbers with them. Really its all up to you.
P.S.- this is only my opinion, I may be wrong.

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95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior
Best ET: 13.83
Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's
Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

[DirtKing]

if you are thinking turbo or 351 go with the afr 185's.

[2FastLX]

The main concern I have is the cost right now. The cheapest I can get even the AFR 165's for is $1300. The TW's can be had for $950. I'm guessing I'm just going to wait on these heads until I figure out exactly what I'm going to do. I'm kinda scared of the TW heads after hearing a few horror stories about valve train geometry problems and snapped valves. Anyone else have any comments on this?

Decisions, decisions.

[Dark Knight]

had a friend snap a valve head off on his older TW heads too... http://members.home.net/caprirs2/byrd/indexbyrd.htm

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84 convt,'95 302,AFR's, performer
3.55's, underdrives stock shorties
stock cam, 1.7's
14.16@100.08, 255RWHP on a hot day
265 on the mph/weight chart

[89GTSTANG]

I was thinking about posting the EXACT same question but I was looking at 3 different set of heads. The 3rd I was wondering about are the Holley Heads that come with the SysteMAX set up. Any one have any experience with them?
I too have heard 'issues' with the TFS. The AFR's are more but seem to be reliable. I'll need to look over that issue of 5.0 again.

[2FastLX]

I was told today by a guy that sells TW heads and has installed a "few" sets that the bad valve issue was probably because some dealers by the bare heads and put their own hardware in them using two piece valves that are prone to snap at the weld. He said he uses a one piece stainless valve and has had no problems with the TW heads and recommends them over the AFR's. Any other thoughts on this?

[MiracleMax]

I guess he would since he sells them , AFR has been around for a long time and they are pretty respected in the brand X arena, not to mention they have some very nice (read high quality) pieces. IMO in most cases you get what you pay for. Trickflow has always had some good heads, but they seem to be better suited for use as raw material. It's interesting to note that when I was thinking about a speed shop and mailed off to 80 or so companies and got some info back from TFS they required that any potential dealer be both a speed shop and machine shop. One or the other could not sell their parts.

To me this means that the 400 bucks you save would then be spent on proper machinework and parts? Also my engine builder has built more than a few sets. He's never been satisfied with the "as-is" conditon of the heads. Having to port match or some other such operation.

[Killercanary]

I was told from someone in the know that the problems with the Trick flow heads came about when summit bought out the trick flow brand and wanted to start putting them out in greatter numbers and in doing so their quality dropped. It was also explained to me that the way that the valve is angled in order to allow a 2.02 valve with stock pistons puts excess strain on the valve guides and this causes them to fail too, but I never heard anything about it being problems with the valves.
BTW- I just ordered a set of 165cc AFR's from JD's Perfromance in Orlando as part of a group purchase for $1195, but the special is over now- sorry.

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95 GT convt' 5 speed, 3.73's,FMS HD clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, ASP alum. underdrive pulleys, Bassani offroad X pipe, 2 chmbr flowmasters, K&N w/o silencer, edelbrock performer intake, FRPP 65mm T-body, FRPP shorty headers, FRPP aluminum driveshaft.Hooker 4pt chrome car bar, Xenon/Wings West ground effects, custom interior
Best ET: 13.83
Best MPH: 98.55mph with Best 60': 1.91 on Nitto DR's
Homepage: <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/killercanary" TARGET=_blank>http://www.angelfire

[2FastLX]

OK. That's all I needed to hear. I generally try to buy the best stuff whenever possible so I'll start saving for the AFR's.

[chris91LX]

If anyones putting together another group purchase for the AFR's I know I'd be interested in jumping on board. Maybe in a couple months????