Just got a set of AFR 165's

[86GT]

I just picked up a set of AFR 165 heads from a friend who owed me a ton of money. I was thinking of making a higher winding 302 (obviously with good internals) or maybe a stroker. Any suggestions on intakes (carb'd only) and maybe some suggestions on slightly porting them? My ported Edel's flow killer right now, but I'd imagine the AFR's could be ported to flow more than that, or am I just confused?

[90GT398]

I can think of a couple of good intakes right off the top of my head. The Super Victor which is too damn big unless you go for the high winding 302, Victor Jr which can be to big on some 302's, the Air Gap which i think would be perfect lot of Street Warrior and Pure Street guys use this one that run carbs, Performer Rpm carb intake.

What cam you plan on running that will really dictate what cam you run. Victor and Victor Jr you can wind them up to 8500 plus with the right cam, rpm air gap probably good for 7000 even though Pure Street carb cars turn their engines higher than that.

Lot of good intakes out there happy hunting.

[LX XLR8R]

both of those inateks are way to large for the 165's witch power range is up to 5500 on a 302 accoring to AFR..the one thing that the heads do is make power becaise of there great velocity

[Dark Knight]

there's not much porting needed on the AFR's.. not really needed either... RPM intake, 750DP and a cam with about .540 lift would scream..

of course, if you put it all on a stock 86 short block, you're going to have to notch the pistons..

[90GT398]

it has been mentioned on other Mustang chat boards, you have to be careful with AFR and their flow numbers. If you have a question ask them directly, sometimes what AFR does is run a flow test with a 4.125 bore on their flow bench, which will jack up the flow numbers by a huge margin.

If you are not going to spin this engine into galaxy, I will narrow it down the intake selection to AirGap RPM, and the Performer RPM, but if you think you will spin it higher than that, then I say again AirGap and Victor Jr.

Confusing yet??????

[bottlebaby91]

AFR's flow numbers are b.s. They do run them on a larger bore which was just mentioned and make the flow numbers about 15% more than what you would see on a 4" bore. Many people seem to think the victor jr. is a high revving intake, but it is a good intake in the 4,500-5,000 range and on up which is what you would want.

[90GT398]

Originally posted by bottlebaby91
Many people seem to think the victor jr. is a high revving intake, but it is a good intake in the 4,500-5,000 range and on up which is what you would want.

I was going to say that very thing, but on the internet especially on Mustang chat boards you have to pick and choose your battles when it concerns Mustang performance. The Victor Jr is a great all around intake that does not get enough credit.

The AFR 165 is a great head no doubt but AFR will tell you what the head really flows if you ask them.

[86GT]

Thanks for the input. My 86 motor (not in the car right now) has notches in it for large valves/big cam. I was thinking something upto 6500 rpm max, and possibly spray. Mainly a strip motor. I'm thinking my Edelbrock's would be better then, and use th 165's for the street.

I've got a Torker289 intake that's hogged right out on my E'brocks right now, runs great. I've also got a brand new in box Air Gap, so I may have some playing to do. Vic Jr would be alright too I guess.

[bottlebaby91]

Rev that thing to 7,000rpm's. If your gonna put good internals in there will be no problem running that rpm. I know of a stock shortblock turning 6,700rpm's under 6psi of boost.

[LX XLR8R]

Originally posted by bottlebaby91
Rev that thing to 7,000rpm's. If your gonna put good internals in there will be no problem running that rpm. I know of a stock shortblock turning 6,700rpm's under 6psi of boost.

why rev a motor to 7000 that peak hp is gann be in the 5500-6000 range?

[90GT398]

well there are a lot of variables as to where his peak hp is going to be, depends on his camshaft. If he goes with what seems to be one of the popular cams right now the Comp Cams XE282 the peak hp is around 62-6500 rpm, if he decides to stick one of Comp Cams solid roller street roller's in there the peak hp is going to be around 68-7200 rpm if he really wants to rev it up that high.

If you decide to go the solid roller route prepare for a lot of maintenance, and lash adjustment's, and also a little more seat pressure on the springs, but there is nothing like the power of a solid roller.

You can also stick a solid flat tappet cam in there, and make almost just as much power, you will not have the ramp speed, of either roller but you will make power none the less.

[LX XLR8R]

yea but whats the point of putting a 7k rpm cam and intake on if the heads he allready has stop flowing at 6000

"For the ultimate small block Ford street car, you’ve got to use AFR’s all new 165cc emissions legal cylinder heads. Unlike some aftermarket heads, AFR’s Ford head (CARB EO #250-3) fits all your stock components; no special parts are required! With 1.900 intake valves, 1.600” exhaust valve, and combustion chamber volumes of 58cc or 61cc, and 69cc exhaust ports, AFR’s new 165cc Ford head is perfect for 289 and 302 engines operating from idle to 6000 rpm." -straight from www.Airflowresearch.com

[90GT398]

well someone needs to tell the racers in NMRA Pure Street that their heads are not flowing over 6000rpm, since most leave the line at 6000rpm, and shift with a carb on the northside of 7500rpm. I think John McGowan would say differently about that statement.

I am not trying to flame or start an arguement, but Edelbrock says a safe limit with their Victor heads is 8500 rpm, a Hot Street cars see's no less than 9000rpm on the shift unless they are running a serious torque application.

You have to becareful with what head manufactures say in their claim, they also are trying to protect themselves and their product.

[LX XLR8R]

yes but those are not how they get the heads..they can gain big#'s with playing with the valve angles/bowls/springs/retainers and they can gasket match everyhitng 1" into the port..

you think if it was so easy to go fast, then why is joe blow street who has the same apearing combo as Jeff Chambers is running 2 secinds slower and is scratching his head?

[90GT398]

when has rpm ever dictated flow? rpm dictates velocity into and out of the head, either that or some of the best engine builder's in the USA have been lying to me. LOL

Trying to compare a dedicated strip car to a street car is like comparing an apple to an orange, do both cars have the same suspension setup, gears, weight(that's the big one).

The flow on Pure Street/Warrior heads is not what simple think, they have to make so much more power with lower lift numbers than they would up stairs with a street head.

This is my last post on this subject because head discussions never come to an agreement anyway, good discussion though I will admit that.

[86GT]

Thanks for the info so far everyone.

I won't be porting these as I've got my E'brocks done for that. I was just trying to figure out if I can use them on another setup that'll wind to about 6500. High enough for me. I don't think solid roller is in my future, but anything is possible right now.

Any suggestions on cam/intake/carb setup with a 302 with a 6,500 redline. Mainly raced, but may see some street.

[Dark Knight]

air gap RPM, one the of the comp cams XE cams, 750 race demon..

with my AFR's, the stock cam is still pulling at 6k rpm :-)

[tmoss]

Originally posted by 86GT
I've got a Torker289 intake that's hogged right out on my E'brocks right now, runs great. I've also got a brand new in box Air Gap, so I may have some playing to do. Vic Jr would be alright too I guess.

Word of caution about porting an intake for the AFR 165s - be sure to make up a good template from the AFr heads to use in the port match of the intake. In porting the Cobra family lowers for the AFR 165s, there is an offset bias in the runners. See the picture below.........

[HotRoddin]

Originally posted by 86GT
Any suggestions on cam/intake/carb setup with a 302 with a 6,500 redline. Mainly raced, but may see some street.

I'd say victor jr on the intake because what you lose in low end torque and throttle response you'll more than make up for in 6000 to 6500 RPM performance, and you did say mostly strip right? Cam wise i like the XE cams as DarkKnight stated. I have the XE 274 which would be a good combo for what you have planned i think. Carb wise i'd say 750 DP or 750 Demon ... you could go 650 but why play it that close to the edge?
Now my 2 cents worth on the head debate. How many times and how many companies have to tell people that flow numbers alone don't mean jack SH**. AFR uses a bigger bore on the flow bench ... AFR measures air flow with their Dic* in their hand, AFR does this and that ... i don't care what the flow numbers are, AFR's engineering is second to none. They have an understanding of port velocity, valve sizing, combustion chamber shape, swirl, etc etc etc etc. They have always from day one had some of the best heads on the market. Walk around the race track, look at some of the better performing cars when you see them with the hood up ... who's heads are they running ? Thats the bottom line not raw flow numbers. I could put you a set of 4barrel 351 Cleveland heads on your 302 with flow numbers that would boggle your mind ... problem is they wouldn't outrun my lawnmower until you get to about 8,000 RPM. Ok maybe that was my 50 cents worth on the head debate?

[86GT]

tmoss,

Thanks for the advice. Right now the Air Gap is already matched to a 1250 Felpro gasket. I believe the AFR 165s are too so I don't think I'm gonna touch the intake for now.



Well I'm not gonna get into the debate of head vs. head. My E'brocks are great heads both out of the box and having been ported). Quality is great on both heads, and to be honest, if I had to choose a new set of heads to buy, I'd probably buy neither and just get TFS Track Heats or High Ports, to be different. I almost feel like a bandwagon jumper with my AFR's but I'm not gonna get rid of them anytime soon. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm getting into the debate, but oh well. Once I figure out what exactly I'm doing with the car and how I want it setup then I'll get into the tweaks and tricks to the engine. I appreciate all the info so far, keep it coming....