Low 12 high 11 sec intakes

HORSEMEN RACING · 06-20-2002, 02:46 PM

Back again,
I am asking this and hope I get the same feedback I got with the "NA Street Combos".
First let me explain to you what I have,and tell me what needs to be replaced:
I have a Cobra intake with 60mm throttle body,ported stock MAF sensor,Mac 1 5/8 shorty headers,into a Mac h-pipe with converters,E303 cam,1.6 bolt down roller rockers,underdrive pulleys,PS-91 coil,9mm Motorsport wires,adj regulator.
The parts I have in are TFW Twisted Wedge heads with a Fox Lake Stage 1 port 280/210,Custom cam .555/.557,cold air induction,75mm calibrated maf sensor,24 pound injectors.
Do you all think the Cobra intake is stout enough,or should I replace it with a Holley Systemaxx or TFS intake? Like the subject line says looking for low 12's high 11's.
I hate to keep bugging you all but I am real curious about this one because once again in NMRA the "Factory Stock" cars are running low 12's high 11's with out of the box intakes and most of those are Cobra/GT40 intakes.
Thanks guys and gals for any feedback you can offer.

RPM427 · 06-20-2002, 02:48 PM

the cobra is a good intake, but with thoose heads and cam, the Holley with a 75 mm throttle body will make a lot more power.

HORSEMEN RACING · 06-20-2002, 02:50 PM

by the way those are TFS Twisted Wedge heads,not TFW maybe I better start using that preview button.

RPM427 · 06-20-2002, 02:50 PM

Those factory intakes are ussually ported, but it is possible to run 11's with the stock intake. BUT, you will be that much faster with the holley or TFS.

tireburner163 · 06-21-2002, 10:55 AM

You CAN you a Cobra intake, but the Holley is gonna make more power. If you've go the dough, I'd go with the Holley intake.

RPM427: I would think a 75mm throttle body would be too big for his aplication.

RPM427 · 06-21-2002, 11:16 AM

a 75 mm for an 11 sec car is not too big.

fiveohpatrol · 06-21-2002, 12:19 PM

The Edelbrock performer RPM is another option. Just check out all the combo's on Anderson Ford's website, theres a bunch of guys in the 11's NA with the RPM intake.

By the way, a 70mm TB would be best unless you plan on getting really serious with it and possibly going with a supercharger sometime down the line

HORSEMEN RACING · 06-21-2002, 12:44 PM

I guess with throttle bodies the good thing about them is,they only flow air.
Not like the good old carburetor where you can definitely go too big there.
I was thinking somewhere between a 65-70,well there is no where between,you either get a 65 or 70mm throttle body.
Lot of good suggestions here,Holley looks like a big intake,that needs a ton of rpm to really take advantage of.
Not saying it is not a good intake,but I definitely want to stay away from the bigger is better theme that get's a lot of people in trouble.
I was reading the rules on NMRA Factory Stock cars,(not that I am running that class) and they have to run an out of the box intake un-ported,if that is the case then those GT40/Cobra/Explorer intakes are pretty stout,and at the same time they are purpose built cars for a specific reason.
I believe in aftermarket equipment,but the FRPP stuff is pretty stout,but I am looking at all avenues here and keeping my options open.
Thanks again for all the suggestions,I got my work cut out for me,but it sure is going to be fun getting there.

1BAD89 · 06-21-2002, 02:06 PM

The stock intake flows like crap. The Holley outflows almost everything, and completely destroys the stock intake, cobra, GT40, etc...great low end power, mid, and top end. As far as throttle body's go, a 70mm throttle is good up to 650hp, take that as you may. You've spent the money on a good set of heads, don't choke it down with a lesser intake. Holley is the way to go, yeah you might make "decent" power with another intake, but you'll make the MOST/OPTIMAL horsepower with the Holley. It's up to you if you want the best of the best.

Quote:

a 75 mm for an 11 sec car is not too big.

Yes it is.

explicitone · 06-21-2002, 02:16 PM

I would go with the tfs track heat intake and for the trottle body unless you plan on supercharging I would go with the 70mm and get a better mas like one from c&l or pro m and if you have a cai of any kind that is metal I would heat wrap it they seen to heat up to fast and to much mine seem to get hotter then my intake so its defeating the reason of having it cause your just heating the air up as it goes through ......... the holloy is a GREAT intake but it needs to much rpm and with the cam you have I would stick to the tfs manifold...........but that just what I would do

HORSEMEN RACING · 06-21-2002, 03:04 PM

Appreciate all the good suggestions they are definitely welcomed,I know in all the rags(magazines) they think pretty highly of the Holley Systemaxx,and you see that intake on a lot of high-powered supercharger cars.

Next to cylinder heads,this has been a pretty hard decision also,it took me 4 months to decide which cylinder head I wanted now I got them,and they look stout as does the cam,if you all have the resources I strongly recommend either Fox Lake or FlowTech Induction,you cannot go wrong either way.

Well back to the drawing board(LOL) and frying more brain cells,good thing I decided to ask this I was going to put a TFS R intake on it and choke it down with a 65mm throttle body to hopefully pick up torque down low,but that idea was scratched quickly.

Anyway thanks for all the help but I was just wondering can you even buy a 65mm throttle body anymore? Because if a 70mm throttle body is good for 650hp,and I know I am not making that much or close to it,then what is a 65mm good for? Lot of good ideas out there that is for sure.

1BAD89 · 06-21-2002, 03:53 PM

MM&FF did a test on a mustang with around 300hp, they swapped back and forth from a 65mm to a 70mm, and there was no difference in power, no loss, no gain. If I was to buy a Throttle body right now it would be a Holley 70mm. I had a BBK 70mm, it made the throttle sticky, not smoothe, and made driving a hassle.

DemonGT · 06-21-2002, 05:31 PM

how dose the TFS street intake compare t othe holley?? like on a 302 and also on a 331?

Rick 91GT · 06-21-2002, 10:02 PM

he Holley will outflow a Street and Track heat all day long and it will outflow a R up to 6600rpm. Flow numbers don't mean more power.

As for the 75mm being too big I say no it isn't, I picked up 2mph with just a swap from a 65mm Accufab to my 75mm Accufab with no loss in low end torque although my combo is based on making more power up top where I can take advantage of it. Rick @ AFM told me buy it big and buy it once on numerous dyno's down there they have seen no damage by having a large 75mm-80mm TB on a NA car with healthy combo's. They say a 75mm MAF is good for 650HP as well but how many 600HP cars have that small of a MAF..none. You will need to port match your heads to the Holley though it has a 1262 gasket port. It really depends on your combo.

Whats the duration on your cam? How much overlap does it have?

DRASTiK · 06-21-2002, 10:20 PM

all I know is that when I put my Systemax upper and lower on my car it did wonders for the ENTIRE RPM range!! That's definately what I'd go for in your situation.

(thanks again for the help Rick)

Dave

Skyman · 06-22-2002, 03:57 PM

I had the edelbrock, and it was great. TONS of lowend. I went 12.5 on the smog cam and unported parts with no tuneing.

I am selling my edelbrock, and I have a holley now. If my car gets running right I'll letcha know how I like it.

Skyler

RPM427 · 06-22-2002, 06:02 PM

Thanks Rick, I agree with you on the Throttle body.

The Holley is a great intake. I had it on my car before I re-did the engine. I made 242 RWHP with this combo:

Holley systemax intake
full length headers
mac cat back
electric fan

So my engine was making 280-285 flywheel hp with just those mods. I was making 197 rwhp stock, so I picked up 45 hp with those mods. I also gained it throughout the whole rpm range.

Skyman · 06-24-2002, 03:36 AM

Well I got my car going, I suggest you read the post of my impressions of the holley intake.

Skyler

chris91LX · 06-25-2002, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RPM427
Those factory intakes are ussually ported, but it is possible to run 11's with the stock intake. BUT, you will be that much faster with the holley or TFS.

If you are referring to the Factory Stock cars, those intakes are NOT ported in any way. I know a guy running F/S and bought a Cobra intake off him because he couldn't use it, somone had ported the TB for a 70mm tb. He's running consistently in the 11's. Most of that is suspension and driving.

RPM427 · 06-26-2002, 07:36 AM

That is true, but if you don't have any class restrictions, bolting up the holley will give you extra power.

06-20-2002, 02:46 PM	#1
HORSEMEN RACING Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Camp Pendleton,Cali Posts: 95	Low 12 high 11 sec intakes Back again, I am asking this and hope I get the same feedback I got with the "NA Street Combos". First let me explain to you what I have,and tell me what needs to be replaced: I have a Cobra intake with 60mm throttle body,ported stock MAF sensor,Mac 1 5/8 shorty headers,into a Mac h-pipe with converters,E303 cam,1.6 bolt down roller rockers,underdrive pulleys,PS-91 coil,9mm Motorsport wires,adj regulator. The parts I have in are TFW Twisted Wedge heads with a Fox Lake Stage 1 port 280/210,Custom cam .555/.557,cold air induction,75mm calibrated maf sensor,24 pound injectors. Do you all think the Cobra intake is stout enough,or should I replace it with a Holley Systemaxx or TFS intake? Like the subject line says looking for low 12's high 11's. I hate to keep bugging you all but I am real curious about this one because once again in NMRA the "Factory Stock" cars are running low 12's high 11's with out of the box intakes and most of those are Cobra/GT40 intakes. Thanks guys and gals for any feedback you can offer. __________________ OC "there are 5,000 Army troops sitting on their butts doing nothing,while 2 companies of Marines are securing this island" spoken by a Army General on the Isle of Grenada in 1983

06-20-2002, 02:48 PM	#2
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	the cobra is a good intake, but with thoose heads and cam, the Holley with a 75 mm throttle body will make a lot more power. __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

06-20-2002, 02:50 PM	#3
HORSEMEN RACING Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Camp Pendleton,Cali Posts: 95	Oops by the way those are TFS Twisted Wedge heads,not TFW maybe I better start using that preview button. __________________ OC "there are 5,000 Army troops sitting on their butts doing nothing,while 2 companies of Marines are securing this island" spoken by a Army General on the Isle of Grenada in 1983

06-20-2002, 02:50 PM	#4
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	Those factory intakes are ussually ported, but it is possible to run 11's with the stock intake. BUT, you will be that much faster with the holley or TFS. __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

06-21-2002, 10:55 AM	#5
tireburner163 It's a lot like a race car Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Meridian, MS Posts: 4,130	You CAN you a Cobra intake, but the Holley is gonna make more power. If you've go the dough, I'd go with the Holley intake. RPM427: I would think a 75mm throttle body would be too big for his aplication. __________________ 1987 Buick T-type 1998 HD Electra Elide

06-21-2002, 11:16 AM	#6
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	a 75 mm for an 11 sec car is not too big. __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

06-21-2002, 12:19 PM	#7
fiveohpatrol I'd rather be basketweaving Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,551	The Edelbrock performer RPM is another option. Just check out all the combo's on Anderson Ford's website, theres a bunch of guys in the 11's NA with the RPM intake. By the way, a 70mm TB would be best unless you plan on getting really serious with it and possibly going with a supercharger sometime down the line __________________ NMRA O/C 9516 NA pumpgas stickshift 347 10.65@125.6, 6.73@100, 1.41 60ft

06-21-2002, 12:44 PM	#8
HORSEMEN RACING Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Camp Pendleton,Cali Posts: 95	Big throttle Bodies I guess with throttle bodies the good thing about them is,they only flow air. Not like the good old carburetor where you can definitely go too big there. I was thinking somewhere between a 65-70,well there is no where between,you either get a 65 or 70mm throttle body. Lot of good suggestions here,Holley looks like a big intake,that needs a ton of rpm to really take advantage of. Not saying it is not a good intake,but I definitely want to stay away from the bigger is better theme that get's a lot of people in trouble. I was reading the rules on NMRA Factory Stock cars,(not that I am running that class) and they have to run an out of the box intake un-ported,if that is the case then those GT40/Cobra/Explorer intakes are pretty stout,and at the same time they are purpose built cars for a specific reason. I believe in aftermarket equipment,but the FRPP stuff is pretty stout,but I am looking at all avenues here and keeping my options open. Thanks again for all the suggestions,I got my work cut out for me,but it sure is going to be fun getting there. __________________ OC "there are 5,000 Army troops sitting on their butts doing nothing,while 2 companies of Marines are securing this island" spoken by a Army General on the Isle of Grenada in 1983

06-21-2002, 02:16 PM	#10
explicitone Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: racine ,wi Posts: 691	I would go with the tfs track heat intake and for the trottle body unless you plan on supercharging I would go with the 70mm and get a better mas like one from c&l or pro m and if you have a cai of any kind that is metal I would heat wrap it they seen to heat up to fast and to much mine seem to get hotter then my intake so its defeating the reason of having it cause your just heating the air up as it goes through ......... the holloy is a GREAT intake but it needs to much rpm and with the cam you have I would stick to the tfs manifold...........but that just what I would do __________________ RUN IT STAIGHT AND RUN IT HARD ________ Novi 2000 60' 1.46 1/4 10.67 mph 126.5 _________

06-21-2002, 03:04 PM	#11
HORSEMEN RACING Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Camp Pendleton,Cali Posts: 95	Lot of good suggestions Appreciate all the good suggestions they are definitely welcomed,I know in all the rags(magazines) they think pretty highly of the Holley Systemaxx,and you see that intake on a lot of high-powered supercharger cars. Next to cylinder heads,this has been a pretty hard decision also,it took me 4 months to decide which cylinder head I wanted now I got them,and they look stout as does the cam,if you all have the resources I strongly recommend either Fox Lake or FlowTech Induction,you cannot go wrong either way. Well back to the drawing board(LOL) and frying more brain cells,good thing I decided to ask this I was going to put a TFS R intake on it and choke it down with a 65mm throttle body to hopefully pick up torque down low,but that idea was scratched quickly. Anyway thanks for all the help but I was just wondering can you even buy a 65mm throttle body anymore? Because if a 70mm throttle body is good for 650hp,and I know I am not making that much or close to it,then what is a 65mm good for? Lot of good ideas out there that is for sure. __________________ OC "there are 5,000 Army troops sitting on their butts doing nothing,while 2 companies of Marines are securing this island" spoken by a Army General on the Isle of Grenada in 1983

06-21-2002, 03:53 PM	#12
1BAD89 Tubbed and Juiced Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 1,861	MM&FF did a test on a mustang with around 300hp, they swapped back and forth from a 65mm to a 70mm, and there was no difference in power, no loss, no gain. If I was to buy a Throttle body right now it would be a Holley 70mm. I had a BBK 70mm, it made the throttle sticky, not smoothe, and made driving a hassle.

06-21-2002, 05:31 PM	#13
DemonGT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 879	how dose the TFS street intake compare t othe holley?? like on a 302 and also on a 331? __________________ '91 GT,410W,10.5 to 1 comp,Victor Jr. heads,Victor 5.8 intake,FTI cam,Crane retro fit lifters,Scorpian 1.6 RR's,Melling HV oil pump,MSD distro.,Canton oil pan,FMS flywheel,Romac balancer,FMS timing chain,Accufab 90mm TB,C&L 76mm maf, 42lbers,HD clutch,K&N air filter,Mac long tubes,Pro dumps,powerchamber,FMS 9mm wires,180 thermostat,Ford Racing gauges,5inch Tach,centerline convo pro's,nitto DR's,Pro3i lower control arms,50/50 shocks,3.55 gears,TFS HD diff. cover Next year: Tremec TKO,Spec stage 3 clutch,alum driveshaft,complete fuel system www.angelfire.com/linux/demondan

06-21-2002, 10:02 PM	#14
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	he Holley will outflow a Street and Track heat all day long and it will outflow a R up to 6600rpm. Flow numbers don't mean more power. As for the 75mm being too big I say no it isn't, I picked up 2mph with just a swap from a 65mm Accufab to my 75mm Accufab with no loss in low end torque although my combo is based on making more power up top where I can take advantage of it. Rick @ AFM told me buy it big and buy it once on numerous dyno's down there they have seen no damage by having a large 75mm-80mm TB on a NA car with healthy combo's. They say a 75mm MAF is good for 650HP as well but how many 600HP cars have that small of a MAF..none. You will need to port match your heads to the Holley though it has a 1262 gasket port. It really depends on your combo. Whats the duration on your cam? How much overlap does it have? __________________ *D/R 10108 NMRA Drag Radial, 25.5 chassis, F1R* *Check out RNH Performance Performance Engines and Custom Fabrication.* *From Mild to Wild we can build what you want, when you want it.* FOR SALE Stainless Steel Torque Box Supports

06-21-2002, 10:20 PM	#15
DRASTiK Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Yuma, AZ Posts: 536	all I know is that when I put my Systemax upper and lower on my car it did wonders for the ENTIRE RPM range!! That's definately what I'd go for in your situation. (thanks again for the help Rick) Dave __________________ Dave 88 GT - 13.4@106 on street tires (2.2 60ft) My Stang RHC member #75 My stang is FOR SALE!!

06-22-2002, 03:57 PM	#16
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	I had the edelbrock, and it was great. TONS of lowend. I went 12.5 on the smog cam and unported parts with no tuneing. I am selling my edelbrock, and I have a holley now. If my car gets running right I'll letcha know how I like it. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-22-2002, 06:02 PM	#17
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	Thanks Rick, I agree with you on the Throttle body. The Holley is a great intake. I had it on my car before I re-did the engine. I made 242 RWHP with this combo: Holley systemax intake full length headers mac cat back electric fan So my engine was making 280-285 flywheel hp with just those mods. I was making 197 rwhp stock, so I picked up 45 hp with those mods. I also gained it throughout the whole rpm range. __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

06-24-2002, 03:36 AM	#18
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Well I got my car going, I suggest you read the post of my impressions of the holley intake. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-26-2002, 07:36 AM	#20
RPM427 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Huntington NY Posts: 573	That is true, but if you don't have any class restrictions, bolting up the holley will give you extra power. __________________ -1993 Mustang, 900rwhp 03-04 cobra based 4v swap, full Griggs setup, project underway -1994 Ranger w/ 427cid windsor (daily beater) check it out!

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