Performer RPM vs RPM Air Gap

Phantom5oh · 01-03-2002, 12:05 PM

I was wondering if anyone has any firsthand experiance with the Performer RPM Air Gap intake Edelbrock sells for carbed 302s? From what I can tell its the same intake as the Performer RPM except it has its runners seperated from the lifter valley like a Victor series manifold. So it should flow the same, if the runners are exactly alike, right? Does anyone know if it does flow the same?

Steve

Coupe Devil · 01-03-2002, 12:16 PM

I dont think the flow numbers are the same but I am not sure. On the Air gap intake the runners are a little longer. Creating a larger torque curve. This means that the engine will lose a little low end torque but not much. It is a better intake for high turning applications in my opinion.

Brad

Phantom5oh · 01-03-2002, 04:49 PM

Don't longer runners make more low end power than short ones? Maybe I am confused, but w/EFI longer runners make low end power, shorter runners make high RPM power. Is it different with Carbs than it is with EFI?

Steve

Coupe Devil · 01-03-2002, 05:49 PM

Maybe this isnt always the case. Let me dig deeper. If you add a spacer between a carb and intake it creats a larger torque curve. You are correct in saying A longer runner creates more torque but not in all cases. I may be totally off base here. I am only going by what I have seen. I have never used and air gap intake on a small block. I am speaking in big block experience like the Victor series intakes.

Brad

Phantom5oh · 01-03-2002, 10:56 PM

Ok thats cool. ANY help is GOOD help. Thanks. Anyone else?

Edelbrock seems to be taking their sweet time getting back to me on this. I called them a bunch of times but I can never seem to get through to a real person. So I emailed them and its been like 5 days and still no response. I am starting to get really upset, but I want to know before I buy anything because I don't want to make the wrong decision because I don't have all the facts.

Steve

MiracleMax · 01-07-2002, 01:55 PM

Actually, it would be better to say, the intake runners are tuned to provide a slight super-charging effect within a specified RPM range. Longer runners typically bump up the bottom end while shorter runners feed the top better. The resonant tunning I believe can be affected by runner taper, but is for the most part independant of the actual runner cross-section. The same with runner volume except for the effect it has on velocity.

As for plenum volume, larger or longer plenums give the A/F mix more room to negotiate the turn into the runners and provide a larger volume of A/F to pull from.

Typically you would want the a runnner with the minimum crossection with the right length so that it provides maximum cylinder filling in conjunction with the cam. (impossible to do with most carb intakes, single plenum short runner carb intakes such as the Vic Jr. provide little or no tuning benefit at all other than connecting the air valve to the cylinder heads (well that is to say that the resonant tuning is so high as to not be practical in most applications.).

Ideally the intake, cylinder heads, and exhaust are matched up to provide superior cylinder filling with-in a specified rpm range, which creates a great engine with kewl peak HP and TQ elements, however the intake and exhaust can be manipulated so that they provide differing torque peaks which can be used to broaden or narrow the engines powerband.

I suppose the best situtation would be to provide the broadest possible range in which max (or nearly so) volumetric efficiency would occur over the widest rpm range.

All this is academic for most of us since we don't have the resources to whip up a custom intake for every engine we build nor the money to sit at a dyno swapping cams, heads or exhaust until internal combustion nirvana is achieved

My advice would be to contact the intake manufacturer (I've called Edelbrock's tech guys before they seemed pretty nice)

Phantom5oh · 01-07-2002, 02:51 PM

Great!!! Your response helped me out. Except for the fact that I STILL can't get through to the tech guys at Edelbrock and its been over a week and NO response to me email yet! Man they need more tech people over there.

Steve

Mach 1 · 01-08-2002, 03:59 AM

"internal combustion nirvana"...sweet....I like it. I wish I had a dyno....

7000rpmisheaven · 01-08-2002, 08:13 AM

I bought their Air/Fuel ratio monitor. Wanted to see it work before mounting it in the car so I set it up under the hood. I can be so very clumsy. Wasn't paying attention and the wires dangled and caught the fan. I'm sure you can imagine, it wasn't pretty.

Well I find all the peices and bust out the soldering iron. I think I put it back together wrong. So I e-mail them asking if anyone there knew. I used the tech support e-mail address off of their web site. That was two or three weeks ago and still no response.

Dark Knight · 01-08-2002, 03:49 PM

edelbrock support sucks.... nuff said

Phantom5oh · 01-08-2002, 03:54 PM

Yeah no kidding. If they didn't make some of the best carb intakes on the market I would take my money someplace else!

Steve

Mach 1 · 01-08-2002, 05:37 PM

they also make some of the best fuel injected intakes on the market as well...

interesting, I called their tech line a few years ago with a question about my heads, and I got through real fast and talked to a knowledgeable person. Maybe its gone down hill....

I wouldnt judge edelbrock by their tech help alone, as this is the norm. in this business. Most high performnace companies have crap for tech support.

I called comp. cams to have them recommend a camshaft for my combo., and the guy didnt even listen to what my combo was. He just rattled off the "cam of the day" part number and acted like he didnt want to talk to me.

blue oval 50h · 01-09-2002, 08:40 PM

The cam-help line from comp cam is horrible!! I asked about a cam for my car, he didnt ask me what was done to the car and he told me a .570 lift cam would work good.

"cam of the day" LOL

mean81GT · 01-10-2002, 05:57 AM

if you go to edelbrock's website, they have packages of parts that they put together and dynoed, and they give you the results. they take a particular set of edelbrock heads, intake, cam, and carb, and tell you what it makes. so they have done the work for us. they tell you what parts make the best combo. obviously, they use only their parts, but they have some of the best arts on the market. go to their website and check it out. it will also have flow numbers for the intakes. (i think)

Mach 1 · 01-10-2002, 10:12 AM

theres no flow numbers for intakes on thier web site, and the "power packages" your talking about are no big deal. Just a generic combo they dynoed using their parts. You can build a better combo yourself, especially in the camshaft department. Their "performer package" cam is nothing but the E-cam.

Phantom5oh · 01-10-2002, 11:52 AM

Yeah, sorry guys I was just venting. They have me pretty ticked right now. I love Edelbrock products, but I wouldn't get a power package. I have a good combo right now, with a much better cam. I was just foolish and didn't do ANY research when I bought my last intake from them. I got the Torker II and that was a huge mistake, so I want to make sure I get the best intake for my combo this time. I also want to keep future mods in mind too. Being carbed helps narrow my options, and being emissions exempt doesn't hurt either.

Steve

1BAD89 · 01-10-2002, 01:43 PM

I have the RPM air gap on my 383 in my truck. I'm making over 500hp and 500ft lb's all motor. I love it, it's one of the best carb intakes in my opinion. Buy it you'll love it. Torque is there and so is the hp.

Phantom5oh · 01-10-2002, 04:19 PM

Great! Thanks for the reply, now I just need to find a good price!

Steve

01-03-2002, 12:05 PM	#1
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Performer RPM vs RPM Air Gap I was wondering if anyone has any firsthand experiance with the Performer RPM Air Gap intake Edelbrock sells for carbed 302s? From what I can tell its the same intake as the Performer RPM except it has its runners seperated from the lifter valley like a Victor series manifold. So it should flow the same, if the runners are exactly alike, right? Does anyone know if it does flow the same? Steve __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

01-03-2002, 12:16 PM	#2
Coupe Devil Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Myrtle Beach SC Posts: 1,643	I dont think the flow numbers are the same but I am not sure. On the Air gap intake the runners are a little longer. Creating a larger torque curve. This means that the engine will lose a little low end torque but not much. It is a better intake for high turning applications in my opinion. Brad __________________ 1990 GT, 347, TFS TW Heads, TFS Cam, TFS Track heat, Twin turbos, FMIC, T5. Built Ford Tough Moderator

01-03-2002, 04:49 PM	#3
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Don't longer runners make more low end power than short ones? Maybe I am confused, but w/EFI longer runners make low end power, shorter runners make high RPM power. Is it different with Carbs than it is with EFI? Steve __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

01-03-2002, 05:49 PM	#4
Coupe Devil Moderator Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Myrtle Beach SC Posts: 1,643	Maybe this isnt always the case. Let me dig deeper. If you add a spacer between a carb and intake it creats a larger torque curve. You are correct in saying A longer runner creates more torque but not in all cases. I may be totally off base here. I am only going by what I have seen. I have never used and air gap intake on a small block. I am speaking in big block experience like the Victor series intakes. Brad __________________ 1990 GT, 347, TFS TW Heads, TFS Cam, TFS Track heat, Twin turbos, FMIC, T5. Built Ford Tough Moderator

01-03-2002, 10:56 PM	#5
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Ok thats cool. ANY help is GOOD help. Thanks. Anyone else? Edelbrock seems to be taking their sweet time getting back to me on this. I called them a bunch of times but I can never seem to get through to a real person. So I emailed them and its been like 5 days and still no response. I am starting to get really upset, but I want to know before I buy anything because I don't want to make the wrong decision because I don't have all the facts. Steve __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

01-07-2002, 01:55 PM	#6
MiracleMax Registered Member Join Date: Apr 1999 Location: Hayes, Va, USA Posts: 798	Actually, it would be better to say, the intake runners are tuned to provide a slight super-charging effect within a specified RPM range. Longer runners typically bump up the bottom end while shorter runners feed the top better. The resonant tunning I believe can be affected by runner taper, but is for the most part independant of the actual runner cross-section. The same with runner volume except for the effect it has on velocity. As for plenum volume, larger or longer plenums give the A/F mix more room to negotiate the turn into the runners and provide a larger volume of A/F to pull from. Typically you would want the a runnner with the minimum crossection with the right length so that it provides maximum cylinder filling in conjunction with the cam. (impossible to do with most carb intakes, single plenum short runner carb intakes such as the Vic Jr. provide little or no tuning benefit at all other than connecting the air valve to the cylinder heads (well that is to say that the resonant tuning is so high as to not be practical in most applications.). Ideally the intake, cylinder heads, and exhaust are matched up to provide superior cylinder filling with-in a specified rpm range, which creates a great engine with kewl peak HP and TQ elements, however the intake and exhaust can be manipulated so that they provide differing torque peaks which can be used to broaden or narrow the engines powerband. I suppose the best situtation would be to provide the broadest possible range in which max (or nearly so) volumetric efficiency would occur over the widest rpm range. All this is academic for most of us since we don't have the resources to whip up a custom intake for every engine we build nor the money to sit at a dyno swapping cams, heads or exhaust until internal combustion nirvana is achieved My advice would be to contact the intake manufacturer (I've called Edelbrock's tech guys before they seemed pretty nice) __________________ 2002 5M GT (99% stock) 1991 5M LX (30% stock) patiently awaiting my satin silver 07 Mach 1, and don't forget the shaker

01-07-2002, 02:51 PM	#7
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Great!!! Your response helped me out. Except for the fact that I STILL can't get through to the tech guys at Edelbrock and its been over a week and NO response to me email yet! Man they need more tech people over there. Steve __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

01-08-2002, 03:59 AM	#8
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	"internal combustion nirvana"...sweet....I like it. I wish I had a dyno.... __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

01-08-2002, 08:13 AM	#9
7000rpmisheaven Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: germantown MD Posts: 283	No answer from Edelbrock I bought their Air/Fuel ratio monitor. Wanted to see it work before mounting it in the car so I set it up under the hood. I can be so very clumsy. Wasn't paying attention and the wires dangled and caught the fan. I'm sure you can imagine, it wasn't pretty. Well I find all the peices and bust out the soldering iron. I think I put it back together wrong. So I e-mail them asking if anyone there knew. I used the tech support e-mail address off of their web site. That was two or three weeks ago and still no response. __________________ 85 GT 4bbl roller cam 2 ch. Flowmasters, O/R H-pipe Performer intake and carb milodon water pump, FMS 9mm wires, aluminum driveshaft, king cobra clutch

01-08-2002, 03:49 PM	#10
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	edelbrock support sucks.... nuff said __________________ 84 convt,roller 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.58@102.84 and a '68 stang .. project 8 sec street car... 557 big block + N20 :-) http://members.cox.net/darkknight302/68nwrear.jpg

01-08-2002, 03:54 PM	#11
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Yeah no kidding. If they didn't make some of the best carb intakes on the market I would take my money someplace else! Steve __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

01-08-2002, 05:37 PM	#12
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	they also make some of the best fuel injected intakes on the market as well... interesting, I called their tech line a few years ago with a question about my heads, and I got through real fast and talked to a knowledgeable person. Maybe its gone down hill.... I wouldnt judge edelbrock by their tech help alone, as this is the norm. in this business. Most high performnace companies have crap for tech support. I called comp. cams to have them recommend a camshaft for my combo., and the guy didnt even listen to what my combo was. He just rattled off the "cam of the day" part number and acted like he didnt want to talk to me. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

01-09-2002, 08:40 PM	#13
blue oval 50h Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1998 Location: NJ Posts: 219	The cam-help line from comp cam is horrible!! I asked about a cam for my car, he didnt ask me what was done to the car and he told me a .570 lift cam would work good. "cam of the day" LOL

01-10-2002, 05:57 AM	#14
mean81GT Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NY Posts: 299	if you go to edelbrock's website, they have packages of parts that they put together and dynoed, and they give you the results. they take a particular set of edelbrock heads, intake, cam, and carb, and tell you what it makes. so they have done the work for us. they tell you what parts make the best combo. obviously, they use only their parts, but they have some of the best arts on the market. go to their website and check it out. it will also have flow numbers for the intakes. (i think) __________________ I'm a glutton for punishment.

01-10-2002, 10:12 AM	#15
Mach 1 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Location: Georgia Posts: 3,866	theres no flow numbers for intakes on thier web site, and the "power packages" your talking about are no big deal. Just a generic combo they dynoed using their parts. You can build a better combo yourself, especially in the camshaft department. Their "performer package" cam is nothing but the E-cam. __________________ 2002 GT 1993 GT (SOLD) '93 Mustang GT RHC member #142

01-10-2002, 11:52 AM	#16
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Venting Yeah, sorry guys I was just venting. They have me pretty ticked right now. I love Edelbrock products, but I wouldn't get a power package. I have a good combo right now, with a much better cam. I was just foolish and didn't do ANY research when I bought my last intake from them. I got the Torker II and that was a huge mistake, so I want to make sure I get the best intake for my combo this time. I also want to keep future mods in mind too. Being carbed helps narrow my options, and being emissions exempt doesn't hurt either. Steve __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

01-10-2002, 01:43 PM	#17
1BAD89 Tubbed and Juiced Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 1,861	I have the RPM air gap on my 383 in my truck. I'm making over 500hp and 500ft lb's all motor. I love it, it's one of the best carb intakes in my opinion. Buy it you'll love it. Torque is there and so is the hp.

01-10-2002, 04:19 PM	#18
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Great! Thanks for the reply, now I just need to find a good price! Steve __________________ 95 GTS 03 DR 650SE Sgarzi's Machine Works

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