Motor Swap questions 88 cougar to 84 stang
 

I blew the engine in my 84 5.0, and I have a couple of questions about swapping parts from my 84 carbed 302, to an 88 5.0 efi. I figure that to convert the 88 efi to a carb, I will have to install my mechanical fuel pump, put on my holley stealth intake (with Holley 750cfm) my main concern with that is, I am not sure if the fuel injectors run into the heads, or the intake manifolds, if they run into the heads, I will have to install my 84 heads, correct? If I am right, the 84 has flat top pistons, while the 88 probably has valve reliefs in the pistons, would this cause a problem (if I even do have to switch heads)? On to my next dillema, the engine has 75,000 miles, does not smoke, and runs good, I am getting it from a junkyard for $350, with a 30 day warranty. I can not mess with the engine for the warranty period, so is it possible to use my mechanical fuel pump with the efi setup (If I am correct you have to use an electric in line, or in-tank pump, right)? Last question, after my warranty is up, I plan on putting my 84 cam/lifters in the 88, (they are aftermarket, but not sure who makes them). What I want to know is, how hard is it to install a cam with the motor in the car, what is the easiest way to do it? If anyone knows the answers, please let me know, thanks.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...ap/index.shtml
hope that helps???????

Thanks gmhatr

I guess my major concern is, will an efi be easy to hook up to my carb electrical system, and if my mechanical fuel pump will work for my efi, (I am not going to put an electrical pump in, just to go back to my mechanical setup later).

I think I just figured it out. I was looking at an article that was switching an efi chassis car to a carb, the problem was I was getting a headache looking at how to wire my carb system, to the existing hookups, when in fact, my carb electrical hookups are already there, I'll just need to tear the efi harness off. So since I figured out that I will be able to use my mechanical fuel pump now, my last concern is the distributor. If I read the article right, the 88 engine has roller lifters, correct, which means that the cam is a roller cam right? ( I dont know all the different terms and compatabilities for valve train components yet). The thing is, to use my carbed vaccum advance distributor, it needs to have a steel drive gear to work with the roller cam right? (if in fact it is a roller cam). Alright, lastly, I cannot use my flat tappet cam (the bottom of the lifters are flat, so that means flat tappet right?), with the roller lifters correct, and vice versa (tappet lifters, with roller cam. I am sorry if this is confusing, but I want to get the facts straight so I know what I can and cant use on this new engine.

Not worth the hassle, get a new block, and rebiuld it. what did u blow in your car? physical damage to the main block or just piston damage etc.. Basically what happened to your old motor? The conversion will be a pain in the but, and all you would be able to use is the block and heads from the EFI motor. Cam changes in the car are not bad, remove radiator, and AC condensor if equiped, then pull the cam out. obviously the top end has to be removed but you get the idea.

The only thing that I did to my 84 motor was I threw a rod threw the oil pan, (as far as I can see), it still ran on the other cylinders, but it was leaking oil like it was going outta style. I just plan on gettin something decent from a junk yard, because in the meantime I want to build up my 84 block with a good set of heads, roller rockers, cam, barry grant carb, and maybe even a 306, 331, or 347 kit, who knows. I am more of a carb guy, I dont want efi for my play vehicles,(it would be alright if I had a truck or passenger car), I guess I like the way it looks with the old style clamp on filter right in the middle of the engine, kinda gives it an old school muscle car look. P.S, I'm also not a wiring genius.

Also, fivepointoh, will I be able to use the efi cam with the 84 distributor? Will the cam in my 84 work with the roller lifters in the 88?,(it it has them).

NO! '84 was non-roller cam, which is cast iron. Roller cams are forged, so the best thing that'll happen is you'll destroy your cam gear, ie camshaft. Very important here, dist. gear has to be "softer" than cam gear, that's why they sell a bronze ditzy gear dude. When in doubt, go bronze on Ditzy gear!

So if my 84 distributor has a bronze gear, I can use it on the 88?

As jester said, No... The cam gears are of different material and sizes.. If all you did was throw a rod and it didn't cause block damage, to the cylinder wall or anywhere else then re biuld what you have.

acually also, isnt the 88 cougar motor not HO? i think its the same as the lincoln's and mercurys which is a NON HO motor so that would suck beyond control. The way you can tell is A. the firing order is different and B. the intake is reversed to the other side of the car.

Now I am confused, isnt bronze softer than forged steel? If so, the dist. gear would break before the cam which would be good right? Also, fivepointoh, are you saying to just buy one rod, or do a crank/piston/rod rebuild?

The intake points to the right side of the car(i.e. the airbox is by the passenger side headlight).

Rebiuld, Definetly... Now as for the HO or NON HO on the intake plate does it say HO 5.0L or no? Check the firing orders of the cars.. If they are different then forget it all together.

That's backwards dude. The softer metal tends to "give" a little more, whereas the harder stuff just puts shaving into your oil pan.

I'm going with the "fix what's broke" plan on this one. Of course check out ALL components, but like they say "If it ain' broke, don't fix it.".

Make damn sure your upper intake plenum hangs over the Driver's side valve cover, or don't waste your time. I'm a "carb guy" and I even know that one, so there must be SOME truth to it!

The intake manifold just said 5.0 efi I think.y 84 isnt an H.O., at least I dont think so.

'84 wasn't evem EFI so you've got some homework. If the firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 then it's an HO 302 or a 351 Windsor. If not, then it's a non-HO

So correct me if I am wrong, 84 dist will not work , I need a steel gear? Also on the intake plenum, the throttle body is over the pass. side valve cover, so if the upper intake curves over the drivers side valve cover, then goes onto the throttle body, it is an H.O.?

You have me all wrong jester, the efi I am talking about is on an 88 cougar, my 84 has a carb setup that I want to put on the new 88 motor, and I need to find out if my 84 dist. will work on the 88. (88 dist. looks about shot, but if I cant even use the 84 dist I will sell it.

The H.O. will only matter if I use the fuel injection right?

The HO motor has pistons with valve reliefs and the cam has the same firing order as the 351. The non HO has the standard 302 firing order and has flat top pistons. The 88 motor should be a roller motor, HO or not.

Since that is cleared up, my only question now is, what kind of dist. gear do I have to run for the roller cam? Bronze or steel? Jester was trying to tell me, he said that the bronze "gives", and the steel puts shavings in the oil pan, which do I want?

Get the bronze dizzy gear. If in doubt, just buy a dist for an 85 GT. The description fits an ho motor. But the intakes will interchange between a ho and non ho motor. I am pretty sure they put the HO in the t birds and cougars. The last one (cougar) I looked at was an HO. BTW, the injectors are in the intake not the heads. If it were me, I would rebuild the original 302. Or buy this 88 motor and put your carb stuff on there with a bronze dist. gear. You will have to change the timing covers and put your fuel pump cam eccentric on there too. Although, this will void the warranty you were talking about. Of course, you could just put a low pressure electric pump on the car too. Is the motor still in the cougar? Listen to it run in the car and forget about the warranty. If that is the route you want to take.

If you are still considering, you can not use a mechanical fuel pump with fuel injection. You will have to find a mustang and get the electric setup out of the tank. And then you will have to run the fuel lines. Plus all the wiring and mounting of differents sensors and stuff that hasn't even been mentioned. I am a carb guy as well. Another reason to say don't swap to fuel injection. You already said you didn't want f.i. in your toy and you aren't too good with wiring.

The firing order for a non ho motor is 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8. Just for kicks.

Thats exactly the answer I was looking for. i heard the engine run, and It sounds a lot better than the engine I had in the 84, I know I wont screw anything up just by switching manifolds and fuel pumps. The reason I was so screwed up about dist. gear choice was that an article on jason pletcher.com said to use a dist. with a steel gear for the roller cam, and other people were saying to use a bronze one. one last question, what is the cam eccentric? Is it a rod or something that runs off of the cam gear to power the mech. fuel pump? How easy is it to take off the 84 and put on the 88?

To make a long story short, Its not worth the Time or the money at all... To many swaps, to many differences, fix the old motor and you'll be better off. sell the cougar and get a crate motor. either way forget its motor.

Dont have the money right now for a crate, I need this car to get to work, and it is less expensive and less lost time to just get a decent junkyard motor right now.

have you looked on ebay, plenty of mustang 5.0L motors on there cheep, couple hundred bucks complete.. www.ebay.com

Just checked, they are all worse looking than the one I have my eyes on, plus they do not come with the accessories, (i.e. starter, alternator, etc.).

first things the cam excentric bolts to the front of the cam it drives the fuel pump you need a bronze gear for a roller ho or not its a better motor than you started with just need gaskets a roll pin punch a hammer and a good socket set the intakes are interchangable just remember the torque spec for your intake use the cam in the motor you get youl be happer youll have to use your timing cover for a mech fuel pump to run fi you need a comp from the car the motor came out of so run your intake change your gear and be happy;)

What am I looking at to get the timing cover off and take out the cam eccentric? Harmonic balancer puller? (is there a backyard mechanic way to take the balancer off and put it on without a puller)? Will I have to take the timing chain/gear off? I am also going to have to use my 84 timing cover correct?

ok you need a puller its about 10 bucks at az for a one time use i spent 100 but i use mine alot as im a diag techand build motors on the side yes youl use your cover when you take your timing cover off youll see the ecentric theres a bolt that holds it and the gear on you cant use your chain theres is ok if not buy a roller chain for the motor you got or that is the car it came out of be sure to write down what it came out of and any work you do if there is ever a prob that will be invaluable so you get the right parts all internals need to match what you bought all externals need to match what you gotgaskets usualy are universal it sounds much worse than it realy is just remember torque specs there a rule not an option

I may just go with an electronic pump for now, do I have to mount it under the car, or can I put it in the engine compartment? Will I need a regulator? I'm just thinking which would be the easiest route to go for now.

you canuse a pump in your engine bay pump as long as it only runs at 7 psi for a holley or 6 for anything else much less itll starve for fuel any more itll flood