Is my 1" Phenolic spacer hurting me? and TB ?

Rick 91GT · 01-03-2001, 09:07 AM

How much does increasing the runner length by 1" hurt top end power? I added the 1" spacer as a attemp to gain some low end torque back with my combo since I have the 2.02" valves and the Holley is more of a top end kit. What do you guys think, anybody have any numbers? The spacer does keep the upper manifold a honest 75 degrees cooler. I am swapping cams this winter and was thinking of dropping the spacer if it will give me a little more top end HP, I am switching to 4:30's, 28" slicks and I currently shift at 6200rpms.
Would switching to a larger TB help me since I am looking at more Top End charge, I no I have seen many debates over the years on this topic only but and I would hate to jump on the band wagon but....I see a lot of guys that are NA running 75mm or larger. I am looking at going soild 11's all motor with some tuning and mild porting this winter.

Any info would be great

Rick

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My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98

LX XLR8R · 01-03-2001, 01:07 PM

hey rick

what cam u running now..and what size tb..i would have to say with 2.02 heads i would run a 70mm tb and something a lil smaller than my comp cams XE 274HR(cuz im running 1.9)...75mm tb for a all motor 302 is way too big..i tell everone to run a 65mm unnless thier running heads and intake with a big cam..if they are running heads and intake with a b-303 or simular then i say stay with 65mm..o and about that 1" plenum spacer..i have yet to see a car lose power cuz they had a 1" over a 3/8" infact they prolly gain hp from a denser cooler intake charge..so keep that..specially with that intake

------------------
1987 black notch(ex 4 banger)
DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..

01-03-2001, 01:20 PM

I agree, keeping the intake cool is more important than that 1"

------------------
67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint
351W 415 hp, Trick Flow Alum. Heads, C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

Rick 91GT · 01-03-2001, 02:05 PM

I am currently running the Holley cam .509"/.509" 102/107 218/220 @ .050 but since it broke,I looking at switching to the Anderson N-66 (.544/.568 110 lobe center 228/236) since I am fly cutting my pistonsit will fit with no issues. I was also looking at the XE282HR. I am running a 65mm Accufab right now.

------------------
My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98

LX XLR8R · 01-04-2001, 04:44 PM

282 with 2.02 is pretty big...i know the AFR heads with 282 made awsome power but you dont have AFR heads..another thing about the 282 is that it might too sick of a cam..(i.e. you are sopposed to use DFI or somekind of PMS with it)comps told my buddy that b4 when he was looking at it..and also rember it is allways better to undercam than to over do it..and with that much lift with that kinda heads your are looking at riding of the rev limiter and just about switching to solid cam instead of hydrolic roller..just some things to think about

------------------
1987 black notch(ex 4 banger)
DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..

Rick 91GT · 01-04-2001, 05:27 PM

Yeah Comp recommends the use of a aftermarket tuner when using the XE282HR but I will be adding a EPEC in the near future so that really won't be a issue. I probably will go with the N-66 it looks better for my combo, I was talking with a guy that has a similar combo, running 4:30's and he goes 11.30 @ 119.3mph NA with a 302 with 347RWHP on 28" ET DRAGS,I have his dyno sheets. Your right I don't have AFR's but I have a very good set of high flowing heads, my Holley 20 degree heads are machined by AFR and are damn nice pieces, I am mildy porting and polishing them this winter per talks with AFR, they told me what to do and not to do. After talks with Ed Curtis at FTI he would pick my heads over Ebrock's,Dart and TFS heads, but he favors the AFR's as the ultimate heads but spoke very highly of my heads, I am also possibly looking at one of his cams as well.

------------------
My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98

LX XLR8R · 01-05-2001, 12:57 PM

damn 11.30@119 is no joke..i am looking for about a 11.9-12.2 @about 111-115..on my next motor i want to go all out with AFR 185 heads, trick flow intake and XE282 cam..just like in MM&FF

------------------
1987 black notch(ex 4 banger)
DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..

Rick 91GT · 01-05-2001, 01:21 PM

Like you i was alos very impressed at his times for having 347RWHP and he runs stock suspension, springs, arms, struts/shocks and all he cuts 1.5 60's and launches at 5000 or so. I was very impressed I can't wait till spring wind it up and let the clutch fly at 5000, lift the front high and go 11's. I am going to get my car on the dyno after I tune it in a little more.

------------------
My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98

Rick 91GT · 01-05-2001, 01:23 PM

Like you i was alos very impressed at his times for having 347RWHP and he runs stock suspension, springs, arms, struts/shocks and all he cuts 1.5 60's and launches at 5000 or so. I was very impressed I can't wait till spring wind it up and let the clutch fly at 5000, lift the front high and go 11's. I am going to get my car on the dyno after I tune it in a little more.

------------------
My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98

01-03-2001, 09:07 AM	#1
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Is my 1" Phenolic spacer hurting me? and TB ? How much does increasing the runner length by 1" hurt top end power? I added the 1" spacer as a attemp to gain some low end torque back with my combo since I have the 2.02" valves and the Holley is more of a top end kit. What do you guys think, anybody have any numbers? The spacer does keep the upper manifold a honest 75 degrees cooler. I am swapping cams this winter and was thinking of dropping the spacer if it will give me a little more top end HP, I am switching to 4:30's, 28" slicks and I currently shift at 6200rpms. Would switching to a larger TB help me since I am looking at more Top End charge, I no I have seen many debates over the years on this topic only but and I would hate to jump on the band wagon but....I see a lot of guys that are NA running 75mm or larger. I am looking at going soild 11's all motor with some tuning and mild porting this winter. Any info would be great Rick ------------------ My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98

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01-03-2001, 01:07 PM	#2
LX XLR8R Dirk Diggler Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: SLOATSBURG, NY Posts: 1,931	hey rick what cam u running now..and what size tb..i would have to say with 2.02 heads i would run a 70mm tb and something a lil smaller than my comp cams XE 274HR(cuz im running 1.9)...75mm tb for a all motor 302 is way too big..i tell everone to run a 65mm unnless thier running heads and intake with a big cam..if they are running heads and intake with a b-303 or simular then i say stay with 65mm..o and about that 1" plenum spacer..i have yet to see a car lose power cuz they had a 1" over a 3/8" infact they prolly gain hp from a denser cooler intake charge..so keep that..specially with that intake ------------------ 1987 black notch(ex 4 banger) DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..

01-03-2001, 01:20 PM	#3
tom351 Guest Posts: n/a	I agree, keeping the intake cool is more important than that 1" ------------------ 67 Fastback - Arctic White Pearl paint 351W 415 hp, Trick Flow Alum. Heads, C-4 Trans, 3.55 gears, Front Disc Brakes, 1-1/8" Fr. 3/4" rear sway bars.

01-03-2001, 02:05 PM	#4
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	I am currently running the Holley cam .509"/.509" 102/107 218/220 @ .050 but since it broke,I looking at switching to the Anderson N-66 (.544/.568 110 lobe center 228/236) since I am fly cutting my pistonsit will fit with no issues. I was also looking at the XE282HR. I am running a 65mm Accufab right now. ------------------ My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98

01-04-2001, 04:44 PM	#5
LX XLR8R Dirk Diggler Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: SLOATSBURG, NY Posts: 1,931	282 with 2.02 is pretty big...i know the AFR heads with 282 made awsome power but you dont have AFR heads..another thing about the 282 is that it might too sick of a cam..(i.e. you are sopposed to use DFI or somekind of PMS with it)comps told my buddy that b4 when he was looking at it..and also rember it is allways better to undercam than to over do it..and with that much lift with that kinda heads your are looking at riding of the rev limiter and just about switching to solid cam instead of hydrolic roller..just some things to think about ------------------ 1987 black notch(ex 4 banger) DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..

01-04-2001, 05:27 PM	#6
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Yeah Comp recommends the use of a aftermarket tuner when using the XE282HR but I will be adding a EPEC in the near future so that really won't be a issue. I probably will go with the N-66 it looks better for my combo, I was talking with a guy that has a similar combo, running 4:30's and he goes 11.30 @ 119.3mph NA with a 302 with 347RWHP on 28" ET DRAGS,I have his dyno sheets. Your right I don't have AFR's but I have a very good set of high flowing heads, my Holley 20 degree heads are machined by AFR and are damn nice pieces, I am mildy porting and polishing them this winter per talks with AFR, they told me what to do and not to do. After talks with Ed Curtis at FTI he would pick my heads over Ebrock's,Dart and TFS heads, but he favors the AFR's as the ultimate heads but spoke very highly of my heads, I am also possibly looking at one of his cams as well. ------------------ My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98

01-05-2001, 12:57 PM	#7
LX XLR8R Dirk Diggler Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: SLOATSBURG, NY Posts: 1,931	damn 11.30@119 is no joke..i am looking for about a 11.9-12.2 @about 111-115..on my next motor i want to go all out with AFR 185 heads, trick flow intake and XE282 cam..just like in MM&FF ------------------ 1987 black notch(ex 4 banger) DSS 306 w/ main support...Elderbrock 6028 heads..gt-40 intake..24# injectors...70 mm tb..77 pro-m...accel 300+..mac full legnth..tremec w/ pro5oh...full MAC exhaust,off road h-pipe,long tubes, catback...ron davis radiator..subframes, control arms...CFDF II..o yea holley FPR sucks..dont buy one..

01-05-2001, 01:21 PM	#8
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Like you i was alos very impressed at his times for having 347RWHP and he runs stock suspension, springs, arms, struts/shocks and all he cuts 1.5 60's and launches at 5000 or so. I was very impressed I can't wait till spring wind it up and let the clutch fly at 5000, lift the front high and go 11's. I am going to get my car on the dyno after I tune it in a little more. ------------------ My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98

01-05-2001, 01:23 PM	#9
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	Like you i was alos very impressed at his times for having 347RWHP and he runs stock suspension, springs, arms, struts/shocks and all he cuts 1.5 60's and launches at 5000 or so. I was very impressed I can't wait till spring wind it up and let the clutch fly at 5000, lift the front high and go 11's. I am going to get my car on the dyno after I tune it in a little more. ------------------ My Ride Check Out My Site 91GT, Holley SysteMAX II Kit-Heads 2.02" x 1.60",Full MAC exhaust 1-5/8" Long tubes, 2-1/2" O.R H-Pipe, 2 1/2" cat back, 12" K&N Filter, RNH PERFORMANCE Ram Air, Ron Davis Radiator, Full Suspension,3:73's, Welds, Best on new motor-12.60 @ 108, no traction 1.98