parked, and car shut off...

90LxDroptop · 05-11-2002, 01:30 AM

I was with my girlfriend and we hit a stoplight, waited for the train to pass. when it's green i'm about to go when I realize that the motor shut off...everything else was still on, I barely noticed...what caused this to happen? and sometimes I have trouble starting...I just replaced the battery last week...

PKRWUD · 05-11-2002, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 90LxDroptop
I was with my girlfriend and we hit a stoplight, waited for the train to pass. when it's green i'm about to go when I realize that the motor shut off...everything else was still on, I barely noticed...what caused this to happen?

The train probably came from Indiana.

It's hard to say without more info. Did you have any trouble getting the car to start after you realized it stalled? Describe what happens when it's hard to start. Have there been any other drivability problems lately?

It's not the battery, or any of the battery connections, because if they were to fail in a manner that would unexpectedly stall the engine, "everything else" would not have remained on.

I don't believe it's fuel related, because when an engine stalls due to a lack of fuel, it tends to buck and cough a bit first, and you certainly would have noticed that.

That leaves the ignition. The ignition, if cut abruptly, would kill the engine instantly, and could go unnoticed. In order for the ignition to die from a cause that is unrelated to the battery, it would have to be a failure in the primary circuit, or the coil itself. If it was the coil itself, it wouldn't have restarted. That leaves the ignition switch itself and the TFI module. If it were the ignition switch that failed, then everything else attached to an accessory circuit, including the dash warning lights, would have also failed. They didn't. Therefore, based on the info you gave, I would suspect the TFI module.

Other more common, specific signs that a TFI module is failing include hard restarts, especially when the engine is warm, and the fact that when this does occur, the problem appears to go away after the car has sat for a few minutes.

Take care,
-Chris

90LxDroptop · 05-11-2002, 01:34 PM

hmm I had no trouble starting it back up, started on the first try, and when it's hard to start, I turn the key and nothing happens. It happens only sometimes when I let the car sit for a few hours. ane when I turn the key nothing happens. absolutley nothing, no indication that it's even going to remotley try to start up. The radio, lights and windows work though. That's really the only drivability problem I've had. Thanx for the help you've already given me, so would I have to replace the tfi module or what...?

PKRWUD · 05-11-2002, 02:07 PM

Hold off on the TFI for a minute.

Do you have to have the key "on" for the accessories you mentioned, that weren't effected, to work?

Is your stereo, etc. wired through or around the ignition switch?

When you turn the key to the "on" position, the warning lights on the dash should light up, and remain on until after the engine has started. Is this true for you when the car is starting normally?

What about when you try to start it and "nothing" happens?

By "nothing", do you mean no dash lights, no starter, no power at all, or do the dash lights come on, but when you move the key to the "start" position, the starter doesn't do anything (nothing at all seems to happen under the hood.

These are very important questions, and you need to be specific.

Take care,
-Chris

90LxDroptop · 05-11-2002, 03:39 PM

sorry about that. I'll try to narrow things down. Well I took the car out 3 times today, and all three times it wouldn't start. It would only start if I put the car in nuetral, and then, it started fine every time like normal(dash lights would go on, then after it started the lights would go away). When I try to start it in park, all the dash lights go on, but when I turn it all the way, nothign happens under the hood, and the lights stay on. As for the stereo, I don't know if it's wired through or around the ignition switch... Sorry about not being to detailed before. any ideas?

PKRWUD · 05-11-2002, 04:15 PM

That's all I needed to know. You have what's called a Neutral Safety Switch that is mounted to your tranny. It prevents the starter from getting any power unless the transmission is in Park or Neutral. Yours is on it's way out. Unfortunately, they are a true PITA to get out without lowering the tranny. There is an alternative, though, if you don't mind the fact that it will allow the engine to be started no matter what gear the tranny is in. this is what you need to do: There is a 4 wire connector that goes to the switch. Two of these wires control the back-up lights, and the other two are for the neutral safety part of the switch. You need to get one of those blue splice connectors that you can use to splice a wire into any circuit (see attachment), cut out the plug in the one end, so that both channels go completely through it, and get under your jacked up and safely supported car, and connect it to the Red w/ Lt. Blue wire and the White wire in the 4 wire harness that goes to the switch, above the shift linkage.

What you are doing is over-riding that circuit so that it is always closed, which will enable you to start the car whenever you want to, but it won't harm or affect the back-up lights.

This still doesn't explain why it stalled by the train, but let's fix this first, and go from there.

Take care,
-Chris

PKRWUD · 05-11-2002, 04:17 PM

This picture shows what I mean by having the two channels clear in the splice connector:

90LxDroptop · 05-12-2002, 02:40 AM

Thanx a lot man! thanks for the pictures to. This was a great help!

PKRWUD · 05-12-2002, 05:47 AM

My pleasure.

Take care,
-Chris

DemonGT · 05-12-2002, 05:58 AM

everything you discribed about the failing TFI is what is happening to me....where exactly is the TFI located and how much dose a new one cost?

PKRWUD · 05-12-2002, 06:44 AM

It's attached to the side of your distributor. You'll need a 1/4" drive 7/32" deep socket to get it off. They cost between $65 and $35, depending on your luck.

Take care,
-Chris

DemonGT · 05-12-2002, 05:26 PM

where exactly? do you have a pic you could point it out in..or can you point it out in mine?

PKRWUD · 05-13-2002, 02:13 AM

It's that thing on the side of your distributor with the red/pink looking wires coming out of it. It's about an inch to the right of your radiator hose.

Take care,
-Chris

DemonGT · 05-13-2002, 03:20 AM

humm i see...wtf..i thought that was the spout you disconnected to do the timing? lol good thing i havnt done mine yet

05-11-2002, 01:30 AM	#1
90LxDroptop Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arlington Hts. IL Posts: 315	parked, and car shut off... I was with my girlfriend and we hit a stoplight, waited for the train to pass. when it's green i'm about to go when I realize that the motor shut off...everything else was still on, I barely noticed...what caused this to happen? and sometimes I have trouble starting...I just replaced the battery last week... __________________ 90 LX Convertible 5.0 AOD 3.73 Gears, Underdrive Pulleys, TransGo shift kit, A servo, Subframe Connectors, o/r h-pipe, 2 chamber flows, Pony Wheels

05-11-2002, 01:34 PM	#3
90LxDroptop Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arlington Hts. IL Posts: 315	hmm I had no trouble starting it back up, started on the first try, and when it's hard to start, I turn the key and nothing happens. It happens only sometimes when I let the car sit for a few hours. ane when I turn the key nothing happens. absolutley nothing, no indication that it's even going to remotley try to start up. The radio, lights and windows work though. That's really the only drivability problem I've had. Thanx for the help you've already given me, so would I have to replace the tfi module or what...? __________________ 90 LX Convertible 5.0 AOD 3.73 Gears, Underdrive Pulleys, TransGo shift kit, A servo, Subframe Connectors, o/r h-pipe, 2 chamber flows, Pony Wheels

05-11-2002, 02:07 PM	#4
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Hold off on the TFI for a minute. Do you have to have the key "on" for the accessories you mentioned, that weren't effected, to work? Is your stereo, etc. wired through or around the ignition switch? When you turn the key to the "on" position, the warning lights on the dash should light up, and remain on until after the engine has started. Is this true for you when the car is starting normally? What about when you try to start it and "nothing" happens? By "nothing", do you mean no dash lights, no starter, no power at all, or do the dash lights come on, but when you move the key to the "start" position, the starter doesn't do anything (nothing at all seems to happen under the hood. These are very important questions, and you need to be specific. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-11-2002, 03:39 PM	#5
90LxDroptop Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arlington Hts. IL Posts: 315	sorry about that. I'll try to narrow things down. Well I took the car out 3 times today, and all three times it wouldn't start. It would only start if I put the car in nuetral, and then, it started fine every time like normal(dash lights would go on, then after it started the lights would go away). When I try to start it in park, all the dash lights go on, but when I turn it all the way, nothign happens under the hood, and the lights stay on. As for the stereo, I don't know if it's wired through or around the ignition switch... Sorry about not being to detailed before. any ideas? __________________ 90 LX Convertible 5.0 AOD 3.73 Gears, Underdrive Pulleys, TransGo shift kit, A servo, Subframe Connectors, o/r h-pipe, 2 chamber flows, Pony Wheels

05-11-2002, 04:15 PM	#6
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	That's all I needed to know. You have what's called a Neutral Safety Switch that is mounted to your tranny. It prevents the starter from getting any power unless the transmission is in Park or Neutral. Yours is on it's way out. Unfortunately, they are a true PITA to get out without lowering the tranny. There is an alternative, though, if you don't mind the fact that it will allow the engine to be started no matter what gear the tranny is in. this is what you need to do: There is a 4 wire connector that goes to the switch. Two of these wires control the back-up lights, and the other two are for the neutral safety part of the switch. You need to get one of those blue splice connectors that you can use to splice a wire into any circuit (see attachment), cut out the plug in the one end, so that both channels go completely through it, and get under your jacked up and safely supported car, and connect it to the Red w/ Lt. Blue wire and the White wire in the 4 wire harness that goes to the switch, above the shift linkage. What you are doing is over-riding that circuit so that it is always closed, which will enable you to start the car whenever you want to, but it won't harm or affect the back-up lights. This still doesn't explain why it stalled by the train, but let's fix this first, and go from there. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-11-2002, 04:17 PM	#7
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	This picture shows what I mean by having the two channels clear in the splice connector: __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-12-2002, 02:40 AM	#8
90LxDroptop Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arlington Hts. IL Posts: 315	Genius!!! Thanx a lot man! thanks for the pictures to. This was a great help! __________________ 90 LX Convertible 5.0 AOD 3.73 Gears, Underdrive Pulleys, TransGo shift kit, A servo, Subframe Connectors, o/r h-pipe, 2 chamber flows, Pony Wheels

05-12-2002, 05:47 AM	#9
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	My pleasure. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-12-2002, 05:58 AM	#10
DemonGT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 879	everything you discribed about the failing TFI is what is happening to me....where exactly is the TFI located and how much dose a new one cost? __________________ '91 GT,410W,10.5 to 1 comp,Victor Jr. heads,Victor 5.8 intake,FTI cam,Crane retro fit lifters,Scorpian 1.6 RR's,Melling HV oil pump,MSD distro.,Canton oil pan,FMS flywheel,Romac balancer,FMS timing chain,Accufab 90mm TB,C&L 76mm maf, 42lbers,HD clutch,K&N air filter,Mac long tubes,Pro dumps,powerchamber,FMS 9mm wires,180 thermostat,Ford Racing gauges,5inch Tach,centerline convo pro's,nitto DR's,Pro3i lower control arms,50/50 shocks,3.55 gears,TFS HD diff. cover Next year: Tremec TKO,Spec stage 3 clutch,alum driveshaft,complete fuel system www.angelfire.com/linux/demondan

05-12-2002, 06:44 AM	#11
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	It's attached to the side of your distributor. You'll need a 1/4" drive 7/32" deep socket to get it off. They cost between $65 and $35, depending on your luck. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-12-2002, 05:26 PM	#12
DemonGT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 879	where exactly? do you have a pic you could point it out in..or can you point it out in mine? __________________ '91 GT,410W,10.5 to 1 comp,Victor Jr. heads,Victor 5.8 intake,FTI cam,Crane retro fit lifters,Scorpian 1.6 RR's,Melling HV oil pump,MSD distro.,Canton oil pan,FMS flywheel,Romac balancer,FMS timing chain,Accufab 90mm TB,C&L 76mm maf, 42lbers,HD clutch,K&N air filter,Mac long tubes,Pro dumps,powerchamber,FMS 9mm wires,180 thermostat,Ford Racing gauges,5inch Tach,centerline convo pro's,nitto DR's,Pro3i lower control arms,50/50 shocks,3.55 gears,TFS HD diff. cover Next year: Tremec TKO,Spec stage 3 clutch,alum driveshaft,complete fuel system www.angelfire.com/linux/demondan

05-13-2002, 02:13 AM	#13
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	It's that thing on the side of your distributor with the red/pink looking wires coming out of it. It's about an inch to the right of your radiator hose. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-13-2002, 03:20 AM	#14
DemonGT Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 879	humm i see...wtf..i thought that was the spout you disconnected to do the timing? lol good thing i havnt done mine yet __________________ '91 GT,410W,10.5 to 1 comp,Victor Jr. heads,Victor 5.8 intake,FTI cam,Crane retro fit lifters,Scorpian 1.6 RR's,Melling HV oil pump,MSD distro.,Canton oil pan,FMS flywheel,Romac balancer,FMS timing chain,Accufab 90mm TB,C&L 76mm maf, 42lbers,HD clutch,K&N air filter,Mac long tubes,Pro dumps,powerchamber,FMS 9mm wires,180 thermostat,Ford Racing gauges,5inch Tach,centerline convo pro's,nitto DR's,Pro3i lower control arms,50/50 shocks,3.55 gears,TFS HD diff. cover Next year: Tremec TKO,Spec stage 3 clutch,alum driveshaft,complete fuel system www.angelfire.com/linux/demondan