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HORSEMEN RACING 06-13-2002 04:10 PM

N/A Street Combos
 
Looking for some inpute here,and this is one where opinions should not get you in trouble,I hope not but this is what I am asking.
For a stout street combo running natural aspiration what would some of you recommend,only rule to this is no 9.5 deck blocks(just in case you do not know that is a 351W deck height or 9.2 also)

The combo will have to do this,yes I am being very technical here so that will keep all the wanna-be's and know it alls at bay.
Here is the performance I am looking for mid to low 12's on a decent track,high 11's on a great track,power band from 2500-6500,stock bottom end or max cubes 347,fuel injected,any head long as they are inline Windsor heads,any cam as long as it is a hyd roller,I am looking for opinions here strong and smart opinions are definitely appreciated,the combo I would recommend is 75mm MAF sensor,65-70mm throttle body,24 pound injectors,TFS R intake,mildly ported Twisted Wedge heads, 1 5/8 long tubes,2.5 inch exhaust out the back minimum 3.73 gears and a hard launch come on people pull out those combos and offer up some opinions

1BAD89 06-13-2002 04:52 PM

Here are the main pieces: C&L 76mm Mass air, AFM Custom grind, Holley 70mm Throttle body, Holley intake, 30 pound injectors, AFR 165's or 185's, BBK 1 3/4 Longtubes, BBK shorty X-pipe, 2.5 inch exhaust with Borla XR1 mufflers. 306 vs. 347, well your looking at probaly about 60hp more by going with the 347 everything else being the same on the two motors.

Skyman 06-13-2002 07:09 PM

My car went 12.5@107.5 w/ unported TFS heads, Unported Edelbrock intake, Adj FPR, 24lb Injectors, 190lph fuel pump, E-303 cam, 70mm TB, 73MM Maf, Mac Unequal Shorty 1 5/8 Headers, Off Road H pipe and 2 1/4 inch exhaust.

This is UN-TUNED.

Theres another tenth or two in it tuning it for sure. Ive changed the combo slightly now. I added a systemax II intake, and 1.72 rockers. Should go 12.3 at carlsbad here sometime this month.

I also have a 125shot on it which will get me somewhere in the 11's, I havent run it yet.

Skyler

Skyman 06-13-2002 07:11 PM

Oh yeah, the powerband is from 2200 to 5800.

I'd probably get another tenth out of it w/ hyper pistons too. ;)

Also, on that 12.5 pass, my back saleen bumper facia was acting as a wind scoop because it was cut down from a fuel pump install. If youve seen the saleen back bumpers you will know what I mean. Also I had slicks on some jeep rims, and they were grinding bad into my brake calipers all the way down the track. So take those for what they are.


Skyler

Stroked408 06-13-2002 07:21 PM

Stout combo Sky
 
It is not the back bumper that worries me about the Saleens.
It is that parachute you call a spoiler on the back :-) Just kidding
My combo would be a carb car. I guess I am a little old school but here goes from carb to axle: 650HP Holley carb,AirGap Eddy Dual plane intake,AFR 165 heads with 1.6 rr's,XE282 cam,306 bottom end forged pistons :-) LOL have the crank reground, 1 5/8 shorty headers,off road X or H pipe at least 2.5 inches,4.30 gears,definitely a Tremec or C4 tranny if a C4 it would have a trans-brake,and just to keep that street stealth drag radials on the back in a coupe of course,just my 2 cents

Unit 5302 06-13-2002 07:32 PM

What kind of trap? Based on what type of suspension setup? What kind of car? My combo will make best power below your 6500rpm criteria. I don't believe spinning the bottom end to 6500rpm+ is a good idea for the engine performance you're proposing. While it can probably take it, there is no reason to run it that high with the combinations available. Not to mention the addition of a computer enhancement to remove the 6250rpm limiter, which I will suggest anyway.

Example. 1992 Mustang GT Hatch. Manual. Drag suspension. I want to run low 12's/high 11's with a trap about 110mph.

331 Stroker
C&L 76mm MAF
70mm T/B
Holley Intake
Adjustable FPR
24lb/hr injectors
TFS #2 Cam
1.6:1 Roller Rockers
TFS TW Heads Stage 1 port
10:1 CR
1 5/8" Long tubes
Off Road Long tube x pipe
2 1/2" Catback
190lph fuel pump
Aluminum radiator
EEC Tuner
Tremec TKO
Aluminum driveshaft
31 spline axles
Differential cover
3.73:1 ring and pinion
28x10.5 ET's
4cyl Spings
70/30 front struts
Lower/upper control arms
Subframe connectors
Welded torque boxes

The combo listed above shouldn't be spinning to 6500rpm at all. Probably 6000rpm or so, and is based on a Fox body Mustang chassis. I would expect the stuff above to run the times you're looking for, actually I'd be ticked if it didn't run a low 12, even on a bad condition track, assuming you're not talking 5000ft. Trap speed should be somewhere in the 115mph neighborhood. Take the slicks off and use it as a daily driver, pretty much.

Stroked408 06-13-2002 07:44 PM

another good combo
 
Now we are talking,and seem to be on the same sheet of music,man that is a stout combo Unit5.
Okay I can see we have the hp wars going here and I am up for that.
Fuelie combo sorry Horsemen did not see that part,hmmmm let me see well on a NA Motor you are going to need some air okay here goes: 75mm Bullet MAF sensor,70mm throttle body,TFS R intake,stick with AFR 165 heads,Cam Motion custom cam, 1 5/8 shorty,X or H pipe,1.6 roller rockers, Tremec or C4 if C4 definitely with a tranny brake,4.10's,31 spline axles,Auburn Pro,Moser axles,once again in a coupe,sorry gents the coupe has me hands down

Stroked408 06-13-2002 07:47 PM

forgot the fuel stuff
 
30 pound injectors,heads milled,255 in-tank just to be safe,aftermarket fuel rails,just to be safe okay now I do not feel like a total nimrod:cool:

Stroked408 06-13-2002 07:51 PM

checking it out
 
Unit5,
I see you got 24 pound injectors? Why not just go 30 for safety sake,and tune them down with your adj. regulator? Just curious?

:)

Unit 5302 06-13-2002 08:39 PM

Re: checking it out
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Stroked408
Unit5,
I see you got 24 pound injectors? Why not just go 30 for safety sake,and tune them down with your adj. regulator? Just curious?

:)

That's not my personal combo, just one that I'm suggesting. I don't have that kinda money, lol.

Injectors reach safety limits at about 100psi. A good fuel pressure regulator might be adjustable up to about 60psi. There have been countless tests that show 500hp can be made on 24lb/hr injectors, and the combo I suggested is probably somewhere in the 400hp neighborhood. 30lb/hr injectors would probably be in the list if I thought the combo would make more than 425-450hp.

If you were to use 30lb/hr injectors with 400hp, likely the fuel pressure would be lower than stock, and the lower your fuel pressure is, the less efficient fuel atomization is. If you get to 20psi, you'd basically be squirting liquid fuel. The more pressure you have, up to reasonable safety limits, the better the spray pattern and fuel mixing is going to be. The result will be a more efficient burn, more power, better fuel economy, and greater reliability due to a more reliable burn, and the computers ability to tune.

Stroked408 06-13-2002 09:24 PM

Definitely makes sense there,hey Unit5 and Sky sorry about all that other crap on the other post,it was just being called a "newbie" that irked me,we are all Mustangers and here to help each other as best we can.
Ok other than the suspension stuff I do not see that combo being that expensive,I am not made out of the green stuff either but long as you have a solid plan it should all work out.
My plan has always been and will always be get the motor right and everything will fall into place,just my 2 cents.
I also have noticed no one has said anything about high compression yet,but then again what is high compression? To someone that has access to 104 or 108 they are probably like what is that? To us regular folk 10.5 is screaming.
Horsemen you got me ready to try a NA fuelie combo to get it into the high 11's as many times I can get it to the tree. Good thread

:)

faststang90 06-13-2002 09:48 PM

n/a combo
 
i have a 302 bored .020 it 10.5:1 canfield heads stg2 ultradyne cam 600 lift 288 dur 1 5/8 long tubes 30# injs holley intakes and throttle body 70tb and 75 mass, 3:55 it has gone a 12.18 @113 mph on et streets with 1.71 60 foot and 11.20 @122 on a 140 shot leavin @ 3500 with a 1.588 60 foot

Stroked408 06-13-2002 09:55 PM

hyd or solid roller
 
Your cam is it solid roller or hyd roller cam? Is this car street driven? That seems like a lot of lift to me,600 lift is a very serious cam when I see NMRA Pure Street cars going 10's with custom grinds and long runner intakes,I bet it sounds bad azz though.

Coupe5oh 06-14-2002 12:57 AM

Re: n/a combo
 
Quote:

Originally posted by faststang90
i have a 302 bored .020 it 10.5:1 canfield heads stg2 ultradyne cam 600 lift 288 dur 1 5/8 long tubes 30# injs holley intakes and throttle body 70tb and 75 mass, 3:55 it has gone a 12.18 @113 mph on et streets with 1.71 60 foot and 11.20 @122 on a 140 shot leavin @ 3500 with a 1.588 60 foot
left at 3500 on street tires? oook

unit i agree, 24lb injectors support plenty hp, especially n/a street driven application.

and unit that combo is like you reading my mind, thats why we are cool, we are thinking on the same level here.....good luck

1BAD89 06-14-2002 01:46 AM

Quote:

it has gone a 12.18 @113 mph on et streets with 1.71 60 foot and 11.20 @122 on a 140 shot leavin @ 3500 with a 1.588 60 foot
Quote:

left at 3500 on street tires? oook
ET Streets Coupe5oh, ET Streets!:)

Coupe5oh 06-14-2002 02:46 AM

lol, gotcha 1bad, i have a hard time calling e.t. streets, street tires, but thats just what they are supposed to be, i guess a radial came to mind, i been away, didnt read the whole post, my bad..:)

1BAD89 06-14-2002 02:48 AM

Go to sleep Coupe, it's almost 3. :cool:

Coupe5oh 06-14-2002 02:58 AM

It is 3, and i have tommorrow, or today off:) but still gotta wake up and do some work on my car, and prep for the track.....thanx again for the correction....now im tired since you mentioned sleep.:p

HORSEMEN RACING 06-14-2002 10:42 AM

Skyman,Unit5,Stroked408
 
thanks for the input guys,yeah you are definitely correct Unit5 should have said what it takes to get in the low 12's high 11's.

The combo I am in the process of purchasing is this.I have already a custom cam ordered(sorry not giving away specs on that one) and TFS Twisted Wedge heads with a Stage 1 port from Fox Lake.Reason behind Fox Lake is they treated me with respect and have been patience,the heads and cams set me back about 1900 dollars not bad considering the cam is matched to the heads I bought a package deal so there would be no confusion.
I appreciate all the feedback on the combos and I will keep you posted when I get this thing up and tuned,still waiting to get my intake TFS R,and some other small parts,this is going in a LX hatchback with full interior and like I said my goals are low to mid 12's on a decent track and 11's on a great track. I am very partial to Ennis because I see some of the fastest runs made there.
Once again appreciate the timely feedback,oh by the way I go by OC,HORSEMEN RACING is just the name of a group of us here on base.

Skyman 06-14-2002 12:25 PM

Lemme know when its ready we can go run em at carlsbad.


Skyler

1BAD89 06-14-2002 01:07 PM

Hey man, no problem!:rolleyes:

Killercanary 06-15-2002 01:33 AM

My Combo:
AFR 165/60cc heads box stock
FTI custom cam (224/228; .546/.536)
Stock 60K mile bottom end
Edelbrock Performer intake
65mm T-body
75mm MAF
24lb injectors
1.6FMS rockers
ASP pulleys
FMS shorty headers
offroad Bassani X
2.5" flow tubes
Dynomax welded race magnum mufflers
stock tail pipes
4.10 gears
FMS HD clutch
EEC Tuner
nitto DR's
GW LCA's
In my 3700lb convertible I went a best ET of 12.73 with a 1.76 60'. My best MPH was 106.96. I shift it at 6K on the stock tach. In a coupe or fox body on ET streets, it should be a low 12 second car easily.

My dad's 91GT setup:
Holley Systemax II kit
heads and intake flowed and ported by Ed Curtis
heads milled to 58cc chambers
FTI custom cam (ITS BIG!)
1.6 FMS rockers
SRP forged pistons (each piston and pin were 120grmas lighter than stock)
mian stud girdle
fully balanced short block
76 C&L
70mm BBK T-body
30lb injectors
ASP pulleys
electric fan
FMS ceramic headers
offroad X
borla mufflers
2.5" flow tubes and tail pipes
TKO
blow proof bell housing
4.30 gears
31 spline axles
F250 31 spline T-lock
8 point S&W roll bar
Comp engineering subframes
Factory 5 UCA and LCA's
MT ET streets on pony wheels

Ed says we'll be shifting it at around 6500. We hope to go mid 11's N/A, but I don't know how streetable its going to be with the cam. It went 12.6 at 107 last year with the box stock holley kit, 3.73's, stock bottom end, etc.

faststang90 06-15-2002 09:35 AM

cam
 
its a hyd and its a street driven car but friends cam has a custom cam its a solid 670 with 1.7 rr like 642 w/1.6 rr driven on the street

Stroked408 06-15-2002 11:10 AM

Killer Combo Killer
 
Canary,
just one question,but I can see the answer(FTI) I was wondering about your exhaust lift being lower than your intake lift? But if Ed designed the cam then I know it is matched up perfectly to what you have.

That is not a bad trap for a car like that at that weight,yeah I wonder myself what it would do in a lighter coupe,I bet mid 11's with good conditions.

Ed designs most of his packages off of what he learned from er uh other activities(i.e street racing lol) but hey it works,and he has nothing to hide when you ask him a question.

This has got to be one of the best threads on the internet I have ever seen,let's keep up the momentum.

Skyman 06-15-2002 01:29 PM

Kanary- What did that FTI cam cost and how long did it take to get?

Skyler

Unit 5302 06-15-2002 05:23 PM

Swap the ET street for some drag radials, my combo will now run low 12's instead of 11's. Hehe. See, there is room to grow. :D

Killercanary 06-16-2002 02:07 PM

Stroked408 THANKS!!! As for the cam... I get asked this all the time... my cam sort of defies the commom understanding that the fords need more lift on the exhaust. I asked Ed about this once and all he said was I didn't need it... that was good enough for me coming from him! As for the trap speed... I couldn't be happier, but I'm afraid that those are gone. I bent three mainshafts in my T5, so I just added a TKO tranny. In a recent thread posted by Bob Cosby on the corral he lost 13RWHP and most other people are dropping 2mph with a swap to the TKO... my only hope is that the bent mainshaft was eating up that 13rwhp before and that maybe it will be a wash with the new straight (but heavier) mainshaft in the TKO. We hope to have my dad's car together finally tomorrow and if we do the rear will be put in this week and we will try to get it to the dyno friday. When he goes I'm going to go too to see if i lost, stayed the same, or (this is a long shot) gained. At least I'll be able to drive it without fear this year!
P.S.- my dad's cam from FTI is similar on the exhaust. I've spoke to other FTI cam owners and theirs is like other ford cams with more lift on the exhaust, so it all depends on the particular setup.

SKYMAN- Hey bud, how have you been? It cost like $325 I think. Back when i ordered it (last year), there was a backorder situation with the blank cams Ed gets so I had to wait like a month... but it was well worth it!

Stroked408 06-16-2002 02:55 PM

that is the one thing I like about Ed,he is straight-forward no non-sense.

I would really like to see him get back into racing but it is always like that,you compete one year,and you get caught up on back orders the next,always like that with guys who win.

Killer have you gave Walsh Motorsport a call? well D&D Performance a call up in Michigan,or Bob hanlon? I think they may be able to help with that input shaft problem,especially Hanlon anyone sick enough to drive a Tremec in Hot Street has to know a little something,something about the Tremec's.

Anyway congrats on a stout combo and you have one of the best in the country offering advice and help.

Killercanary 06-16-2002 03:08 PM

Stroked408- WOW.. you're giving me a big head!!! But thankyou, I really do appreciate it! I can not say enough GREAT things about Ed. He has helped me with my combo, and my dad and cousin SO MUCH with our cars... that is why we all run his combos! Heck, at the NMRA race next week at Maple Grove he is going to be there and if need be, we are going to rip my top end off the car there to try to figure out my noisy valvetrain that is INCURABLE! That says a LOT for Ed... a LOT!!!


As for the tranny... I must have talked to D&D three times last week! I bought the TKO from them after discussing all my problems with them... the TKO seemed the way to go as the 3550 has the same mainshaft as the T5. I think we have everything figured out except for the vibrations over 75mph, but its looking like it may be a bent pinion shaft in the gears that may have occured when I blew the front universal joint a few weeks ago the first day I had the TKO in! I also spoke to hanlons on a few things as well and I buy my tranny fluid from them and speedo gear for the TKO... they are the only people that have inner speedo gears for the TKO.

Stroked408 06-16-2002 04:02 PM

:D :D :D :D Okay no more nice comments but good luck next weekend.

You racing there or just going to enjoy the racing? Anyway good luck and take care

HORSEMEN RACING 06-17-2002 01:41 PM

x2
 
Gents,
thanks for all the positive feedback,it is a lot out there to learn"holy cow".
Well my combo is pretty much set now,I made the first move this weekend: Fox Lake TFS Twisted Wedge heads with a Stage 1 port 280/210 at 600,Cam Motion custom cam,TFS R intake 75mm MAF sensor calibrated for 24 pound squirters,70mm throttle body,1.6 roller rockers stud mounted,1 5/8 long tube headers with an H-pipe,MSD 6A ignition,Motorsport timing chain,cold air induction,and some other tricks.

Sure Sky when I get this thing up and running we can stretch them out at Carlsbad,I know Woody real well there,he is good to go,great guy.

Soon I will be upgrading to 5 lug wheels,hope that goes well if it does not you can be sure I will be on here asking some questions.

Anyway gents once again thanks for the feedback,my boy ByrneCH has a head start on me this weekend he ran 13.12@111mph,with cissy 3.27 gears lol sorry Chris I had to sneak that one in,but the car has one heckuva top end charge.

If any of you all are ever out in southern california look me up,in September I will be going to FFW Ennis to compete in mod motor,and then going down to Bowling Green for the NMRA World finals,talk to you all later.

byrnech 06-17-2002 09:01 PM

That's ok, hopefully those sissy 3.27's will be replaced with 3.73'2 next payday. If those don't do it then the 4.10's will be next. If anyone is wondering I am getting the 3.73's for free that's why I'm not going straight for the 4.10's. I sure hope you get this thing together while I am still around OC.

Hey Sky, what kind of tire are you using at the track?

n20lx 06-17-2002 09:08 PM

I run high 11's at around 114-115 with this combo:
331
tfs TW's
AFM N4 cam 1.7 rockers
Performer RPM
1-3/4" headers
80mm Pro M
30# injectors
3.73 gear
Dyno'd 342 hp/380tq
Full weight car, only chassis help left fron sway bar disconnected & old school lakewood traction bars.
Its got 10.2+ compression, runs a ton of advance & needs race gas. Not really civilized on the street (it will snap sideways in 4th at highway speeds on wet pavement). But the power is down low so I don't need a 4 series gear. Still driven to the track.

Stroked408 06-17-2002 09:46 PM

Congrats and Good luck
 
Way to go ByrneCH,and sounds like a stout combo there Horsemen Racing good luck with it.

If you have any problems USA Racing got your back if you are in Texas when you come down for Ennis,I will look you up I will be there.

Free gears those are the best gears(LOL) good luck with it,111 mph man that is cooking,13.12 is not bad either,week ago you were running 13.40's so you are definitely getting it dialed in,12's next week?

Good luck to you guys out there keep us posted.

DRASTiK 06-18-2002 02:01 PM

HORSEMEN,

Let me know if you need a hand or any tools. I live on base.

Skyman 06-18-2002 09:39 PM

Horse, let me know when the cars done, I want to hit the track several times this summer.

Bryn- I used a MT/ ET Drag 26x10. If you have 5 lugs your welcome to take a pass or two on my tires when we hit the track.

Lemme know when your going again. I want to go this weekend or next. Sometime real soon.

SKyler

Tomzilla 06-19-2002 03:40 AM

Surely not the fastest here but my combo recently turned 12.43 @ 110.56 mph on 4 yr old 26x8.5 et drags. It's a simple and relatively inexpensive setup:

Completely stock bottom end
Mildly worked GT40 irons w/double springs decked .040
Custom cam .556/.557 int/exh lift, 226/228 dur. @ .050, 112 lsa
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake(stock)
70mm t-body
76mm C&L w/elbow
1 5/8" longtubes,Prochamber, 2 ch Flows
30# injectors
4.30 gears

I still haven't tuned it properly yet but it ran the 12.43 without powershifting(granny @ 5800 rpms) and leaving @ 4500 rpms(5 spd).
With some tuning I fully expect 112-113 trap speeds and driven more aggressively(powershifting!!) I hope to crack the 11's all on motor.

Rick 91GT 06-19-2002 06:52 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Went 115mph last year with going lean up top (too small of a fuel pump) and went 11.92 in a bad head wind. This season with the 255lph installed it should go 11.70's in this trim and with a swap to 4:30's I'm looking for 11.40's or quicker all on 26" x 11.5" ET STREETS. Car server as my daily driver until last October when I bought my truck...

Here's a pic.

HORSEMEN RACING 06-19-2002 10:22 AM

Last weekend of June
 
Skyman,
talked to Chris(ByrneCH) Monday night,we plan on going the 29th of June.

We will not be hard to find,just look for a 92 black coupe and a 2000 GT,also black.

It will probably be about 2 months before my LX is up and at full gallop,still a lot of small parts to buy right now,but it will be there and I will let everyone know when it is.I will have a lot used parts soon like 10 hole LX wheels,and a Cobra intake,ported stock maf sensor,remember when us cheap skates used to do that,1.6 bolt down roller rockers,Mac 1 5/8 short tubes,with a Mac high flow converter h-pipe,this stuff will be available in September since FFW Ennis goes in late September along with NMRA World Finals in BG,so if anyone needs any parts give me a holla.

Okay once again thanks for the feedback,and beware of phony flow numbers from big name shops.I know some people that are a little pissed right now because they paid top dollar and did not get what they paid for.

Thanks gents for the input and the goal is low 12's to a high 11,the trap speed will be the true indicator of what is happening.


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