Negative effects of timing advance?

90'5.0 Conv · 09-18-2001, 05:53 PM

Alright, I read the post earlier (timing question) and was wondering the negative effects of advancing your timing. I had mine at 14 and moved it up to 16 after reading that post. I probably could go more but I wanted to find out more. I know you don't want pinging or knocking but do you take it all the way up to that point and back it down. By the way my car is basically stock, all I got is smog eliminating belt and gutted cats w/ flows
Thanks as always for your input.

------------------
90 5.0 Convertible
and loving every minute
of it!!

Mr 5 0 · 09-18-2001, 06:59 PM

Timing is controlled by the relationship of the position of the piston to when the spark occurs. If the ignition spark occurs too soon
it can actually push against a piston traveling up the cylinder as it's compressing the fuel/air mixture. This causes detonation, lost power, much higher combustion temperatures as well as higher emissions and early internal engine part failures.

Simple procedure; using 92 (or higher) octane gas, advance by 2 degrees at a time; 12 degrees, then 14 degrees, then 16 degrees.
Test by driving up a hill in fourth or otherwise putting a 'load' on the engine. If it 'pings' (metallic rattle sound, which would be your valves complaining) then back off 2 degrees and test it again.

Hint: Cool weather will diminish the chance of detonation a bit...hot weather increases it.

[This message has been edited by Mr 5 0 (edited 09-18-2001).]

90'5.0 Conv · 09-19-2001, 09:53 AM

Ok, I did a search on all timing questions and can't help but to think that the wear on your timing chain as well as temperature are the main factors in being able to advance your timing. Oh yeah also of course the octane fuel you run. So, what I basically am wondering is how someone can run 32* timing. That is just amazing to me. Like I said earlier in this thread, I bumped my timing up to 16* and had a very noticeable difference, but the weather here in So. Georgia has also cooled off a bit (highs in the mid 80's as appossed to mid 90's that is has been). When you hit that noticeable difference, Is that when you possibly should stop. Please give me any info you may have.
Thanks
James

------------------
90 5.0 Convertible
and loving every minute
of it!!

2FastLX · 09-19-2001, 11:18 AM

Every car will be different. It will depend on the plugs you use, the fuel, etc. Do as Mr 5 0 said and advance it and drive up a hill in a high enough gear to really bog it down with the gas pedal floored. If you hear the pinging you've gone too far. It will be loud enough you will hear it assuming you don't have your radio cranked. That will be good enough to get the maximum amount of timing out of your car and be on the safe side if you back it off 2 degrees after it starts pinging.

But really, 16 degrees is plenty.

That 32 degrees of timing may be someone who is reading it without pulling the spout connector out and they are getting a bogus reading or they are quoting base timing before the computer takes over? They are probably actually getting around 12-14 degrees or so I'm guessing. I could be wrong as hell :P

------------------
Gunning for 12's!

Buy your parts here
ICQ# 42269241

Mr 5 0 · 09-19-2001, 12:16 PM

'90 5.0 Conv:

That 32 degrees advance you mentioned is probably total timing, which includes initial and mechanical advance combined.
All you need to be concerned about here is the initial timing advance, which should be around 14 degrees.

90'5.0 Conv · 09-19-2001, 12:21 PM

Ok, Thanks for all of your help and the informative answers.
James

------------------
90 5.0 Convertible
and loving every minute
of it!!

Phantom5oh · 09-19-2001, 02:17 PM

Yeah thats what the 32 degrees sounds like to me. You manualy set the timing with the shorting plug out. When you put it back in check your timing, because it won't be the same as where you left it. The computer takes over, it sees what you set it at and makes a comprimise with you. It uses your timing advance within its parameters. Hope this helps.

Phantom

------------------
CHECK OUT MY MODS

http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1350

Loose Cannon Racing
Scarzi Machine Works

CRIPPLED PONY · 09-19-2001, 02:43 PM

Also the more timing you have, it will give you more low end power, but with this, you can give up a little top end power.

Chevyguy · 09-19-2001, 02:49 PM

The EEC IV computer takes care of all the advance functions, if you noticed when you change your cap and rotor the rotor is fixed with no mechanical or vac advance provisions. The computer adjusts the timing advance ( or retard) curve based on programmed parameters, up to a total maximum. Moving up the base timing will increase the maximum total timing, thus fooling the computer to allow some performance

------------------
Frank W
90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links
88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks

74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage
<A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

90'5.0 Conv · 09-19-2001, 03:21 PM

Wow, thought this thread was over.
Thanks everyone for your help.

------------------
90 5.0 Convertible
and loving every minute
of it!!

09-18-2001, 05:53 PM	#1
90'5.0 Conv Long time member in and out Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany, Ga Posts: 343	Negative effects of timing advance? Alright, I read the post earlier (timing question) and was wondering the negative effects of advancing your timing. I had mine at 14 and moved it up to 16 after reading that post. I probably could go more but I wanted to find out more. I know you don't want pinging or knocking but do you take it all the way up to that point and back it down. By the way my car is basically stock, all I got is smog eliminating belt and gutted cats w/ flows Thanks as always for your input. ------------------ 90 5.0 Convertible and loving every minute of it!!

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09-18-2001, 06:59 PM	#2
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Timing is controlled by the relationship of the position of the piston to when the spark occurs. If the ignition spark occurs too soon it can actually push against a piston traveling up the cylinder as it's compressing the fuel/air mixture. This causes detonation, lost power, much higher combustion temperatures as well as higher emissions and early internal engine part failures. Simple procedure; using 92 (or higher) octane gas, advance by 2 degrees at a time; 12 degrees, then 14 degrees, then 16 degrees. Test by driving up a hill in fourth or otherwise putting a 'load' on the engine. If it 'pings' (metallic rattle sound, which would be your valves complaining) then back off 2 degrees and test it again. Hint: Cool weather will diminish the chance of detonation a bit...hot weather increases it. [This message has been edited by Mr 5 0 (edited 09-18-2001).]

09-19-2001, 09:53 AM	#3
90'5.0 Conv Long time member in and out Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany, Ga Posts: 343	Ok, I did a search on all timing questions and can't help but to think that the wear on your timing chain as well as temperature are the main factors in being able to advance your timing. Oh yeah also of course the octane fuel you run. So, what I basically am wondering is how someone can run 32* timing. That is just amazing to me. Like I said earlier in this thread, I bumped my timing up to 16* and had a very noticeable difference, but the weather here in So. Georgia has also cooled off a bit (highs in the mid 80's as appossed to mid 90's that is has been). When you hit that noticeable difference, Is that when you possibly should stop. Please give me any info you may have. Thanks James ------------------ 90 5.0 Convertible and loving every minute of it!!

09-19-2001, 11:18 AM	#4
2FastLX The Photoshop Guru Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mecca, Indiana Posts: 1,419	Every car will be different. It will depend on the plugs you use, the fuel, etc. Do as Mr 5 0 said and advance it and drive up a hill in a high enough gear to really bog it down with the gas pedal floored. If you hear the pinging you've gone too far. It will be loud enough you will hear it assuming you don't have your radio cranked. That will be good enough to get the maximum amount of timing out of your car and be on the safe side if you back it off 2 degrees after it starts pinging. But really, 16 degrees is plenty. That 32 degrees of timing may be someone who is reading it without pulling the spout connector out and they are getting a bogus reading or they are quoting base timing before the computer takes over? They are probably actually getting around 12-14 degrees or so I'm guessing. I could be wrong as hell :P ------------------ Gunning for 12's! Buy your parts here ICQ# 42269241

09-19-2001, 12:16 PM	#5
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	'90 5.0 Conv: That 32 degrees advance you mentioned is probably total timing, which includes initial and mechanical advance combined. All you need to be concerned about here is the initial timing advance, which should be around 14 degrees.

09-19-2001, 12:21 PM	#6
90'5.0 Conv Long time member in and out Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany, Ga Posts: 343	Ok, Thanks for all of your help and the informative answers. James ------------------ 90 5.0 Convertible and loving every minute of it!!

09-19-2001, 02:17 PM	#7
Phantom5oh Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 334	Yeah thats what the 32 degrees sounds like to me. You manualy set the timing with the shorting plug out. When you put it back in check your timing, because it won't be the same as where you left it. The computer takes over, it sees what you set it at and makes a comprimise with you. It uses your timing advance within its parameters. Hope this helps. Phantom ------------------ CHECK OUT MY MODS http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/...splay.cgi?1350 Loose Cannon Racing Scarzi Machine Works

09-19-2001, 02:43 PM	#8
CRIPPLED PONY Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: BURLESON, TX Posts: 14	Also the more timing you have, it will give you more low end power, but with this, you can give up a little top end power.

09-19-2001, 02:49 PM	#9
Chevyguy Backyard Mechanic/Chemist Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Acton MA USA Posts: 435	The EEC IV computer takes care of all the advance functions, if you noticed when you change your cap and rotor the rotor is fixed with no mechanical or vac advance provisions. The computer adjusts the timing advance ( or retard) curve based on programmed parameters, up to a total maximum. Moving up the base timing will increase the maximum total timing, thus fooling the computer to allow some performance ------------------ Frank W 90 5.0 LX coupe Daily driver. Silencer removed, K&N filter. Flexalite fan, 3 core radiator. FMS flywheel and Clutch, FMS blue wires Energy Suspension end links 88 Notch 2.3L 5 speed Parts/beater car My two Notchbacks 74 Chevy Laguna Type S-3 305 Finally fixed getting a 454 to put in garage <A HREF="http://www.chevellepages.com/folingo" TARGET=_blank>www.chevellepages.

09-19-2001, 03:21 PM	#10
90'5.0 Conv Long time member in and out Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Albany, Ga Posts: 343	Wow, thought this thread was over. Thanks everyone for your help. ------------------ 90 5.0 Convertible and loving every minute of it!!