New track times...still not happy
 

Ok, last year with my setup below with street tires, 2.73 gears with a 7.5 open differential rearend I ran a best of 13.78@104
This year I added an 8.8 with 4:10's, M/T slicks(26x9x15) and subframes.
My best time was a 13.47@103.53
I feel I should be in the 12's and something is holding me back and can't quite pin point it.
My best 60' was 1.97, which I feel could be lower. I ran 12lbs of pressure in the slicks.
What do you think is the "bottle neck" in my setup?

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

Carb & Heads. 625cfm just ain't gonna cut it. Look for a 650 D/P Holley, probably a 750. Then get some good heads, your sig doesn't say what kind they are so I ASSUME your're talking E7's You can get a set of Dart Windsor Sr. heads on the cheap on ebay (Sold my complete, ready to go for $700) 2.02 intake, 1.60 exhaust would do it for now.

Just my .02! Just for the record, it's still shytty here in Ohio. I'm jealous of you guys that are racing already! :cool:

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

I have a few questions....

How much does the car weigh?

What is the main purpose of the car? Mainly street and a little strip, or the other way around?

At what RPM do you shift?

What is your actual stall speed? Are you getting up to the advertised 2500 RPM before you start to spin the rear tires or do they start to spin at like 2000 RPM? I have a TCI Breakaway in my C4 and it's advertised around 2400 RPM but I don't see it. My tires will start to break loose at about 2000.

How are your launches? Are you spinning, bogging, getting wheel hop, etc.?

How well is your 351 tuned?

I don't really know enough about your car to have any ideas right now...these questions will help. Hopefully they'll help other people, also.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

torque converter. you have slicks now so you need to hit those pretty hard or your gonna bog and a 2500 stall isn't much. when i first got my slicks i kept bogging cause i was only dropping the clutch at 5000, then tried 5500 and was a lil better, now i launch it off the rev limiter and cut low 1.6 60's.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

I probably have the same converter you have then. No..I don't see 2400 stall either...it's more like 2000
My friends said I wasn't spinning and I couldn't feel if it bogged or not. My friends, who was watching, said I didn't bog either.
It was a day/night difference over the street tires though.
My weight is around 3200(never weighed it). 82 GT's aren't very heavy.
As far as tuning, it's pretty much "out of the box". I didn't mess with timing or jetting or anything like that......yet.
This car is a street/strip car too.
JESTER, I have a 351w so no, they are not E7 heads but they are ported & polished 351w heads with 1.94/1.60 valves.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

What are you running for total timing and what distribtor? Also, could you post all the timeslip data? Like 330', 1/8 mile &MPH, 1000', etc?

I ditched my Carter 625 for a holley 650DP and the car dropped 3/10ths and a total of 6/10th when I got a handle on the jetting. Walk through the pits, everyone fast has a holley or a demon carb, there is a reason for that. Look don the airhorn of the holley versus the carter-no doubt as to which one is going to have smoother flow into the engine. I would try and get a few more tenths out of the current combo (minus the carburetor) before switching heads.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

Lose the heads. Check into the converter like the other guys are telling you, not much of an automatic guy here, so I'm out of my element on that. I had a 750 Holley with a ProForm main body, and it was awesome on my little 302. Hoping to use it with the new engine, but my desktop dyno says NOPE. Gonna try it anyways, but I got an 850 for backup. OVER carbing is worse than not enough, so see if one of your buddies has a 650 you can try. Do you have to use an adapter plate with the Carter AFB? If so, that's not helping either.

Anyways, don't get frustrated. It's a long summer ahead. We'll get ya in the 12's before it's over bro! ;)

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

Here is a breakdown of my best time slip

60'...1.975
330'..5.645
660'..8.665
mph..81.24
1000'...11.287
1/4.....13.477
mph....103.53

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

You're not getting out of the hole very well. Have you tried changing the accelerator pump hole on the carb? I could never get a good launch with my carter either. Try moving it up a hole and see if it improves, if not go down a hole. After that look at the convertor.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

You'd be able to tell if it bogged--more so than your friend watching you from the bleachers, anyways. It didn't sputter and fall on its face for a second or two when you mashed on the throttle, did it?

You definitely need a higher stall converter. Put a tranny cooler on there if you don't have one installed already and get a 3000-3500 stall converter. It'll be kind of a pain to get used to on the street but you'll love it at the track. With your current combo I really don't think there's a whole lot more potential, though. With a stall and maybe a little tuning I can see you going 13 flat, but 12s might be a long shot.

Your heads are a bit of a bottleneck, but you're just going to need some more fuel, man. With that cam you're going to need to get a decent amount of fuel in there and that 625 is probably not quite enough.

One more thing, what is the elevation of the track where you ran?

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

It didn't sputter or bog. It took off without tire spin.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

Jester,
I am not sure I know what the carter adapter plate is referring too. Is this similar to the spacers used? I thought those were considered to be a performance add on.

As far as the T.C. I have never had a TCI, but the B&M I had did not come closs to it's advertised stall. I think if you went with a better maker of T.C.'s, you would see better gains, especially with the slicks.
Ryan

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

my buddy went 12.5's with a 302 with ported 351 windsor heads, gt40 upper an lower, wolverine cam, and a C-4 with a 3200 stall. the car did have a good tune tho but still i think his combo could see 12's. the prob is def. in the carb it think.. its just not agressive enough for ur combo, and a bigger stall would help a ton as well. best a luck my man

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

Carb SPACERS help out alot, running one myself. I'm not familiar with the carter carbs, and was just concerned that it had the same bore spacing and bolt pattern that the Holleys do. Picture trying to put a dominator on a "normal" manifold, you'll need an adapter plate and that creates a HUGE bottleneck. So, I was just making sure the carter bolted right on to the intake. :D

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

now I understand :)
Ryan

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

I have a carb spacer but it has an open plenum. I'm being told on a different board, that my engine is running strong after the 1/8 mile based on the track time I posted above.
What "should" my 60' be with slicks....1.7's??
I also need to figure out what my advance is in the dizzy and how much total advance I have in by 3000rpm
I'm going to tune the dizzy and accelerator pump on the Carter and than see where I'm at and go from there.
A friend of mine will be selling a weiand stealth intake and a Holley 750 soon and I'll try those then.
The converter is going to have to wait until later.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

My feelings exactly. First of find out which advance slots the distributor is set to. There is a webpage with diagrams, I'll try and find it for you. My distributor in my old 302 was set on the 18L slot, which meat that my total advance was 36* along with my 14* initial giving me 50*, no wonder I needed to run premium gas and had very inconsistent performance :( .

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

this b the place 2b
http://www.reincarnation-automotive....ons_index.html

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

I found my my dizzy instructions and it say it's set at 24*(crankshaft) and is in between 3000-3200 rpms
I don't really know what all that means or if it's good or bad.
I'm guessing that it could be set higher?
My initial timing is at 12*. Does that mean my total advance is 36*
Mallory sells advance keys and springs to adjust it so I plan on buying that kit. I also intend to try the different holes on the accelerator pump like you recommended.
Thanks for the link red 82GT

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

Just checked that link. I have a Mallory dizzy..not a Ford duraspark.
Sorry, I must have forgot to mention what type of dizzy I had.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

Ahh, I wasn't sure so I figured it was the good 'ole duraspark. Anyways, yes you'd have 36* total timing. I'd verify it with a timing light though.
You can probably set that distibutor up to have less total advance and then try a bit moer base timing as it seems that the low end power to get you going isn't there but the top end performance is decent. Try the accelerator pump first though.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

My set up went 12.93@105 with 1.74 60ft. I need to buy adjustable control arms so I can play with the pinion angle to keep the weight transferred to the rear wheels. My car would hook hard then 100ft out blow the tires off shift into second early everytime bogging the motor down. My head and intake are untouched. My cam is very small. I have 9:5:1 compression. With your combo you should be in the 12's. One thing I would change is that 625 carb.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

I feel that the plain Performer is hurting your combination. I would go for an Air Gap RPM with a Holley or Demon 750. A 351W with that cam should be able to use it especially with better heads (AFR, TrickFlow, Canfield, etc.)

I also feel that you have enough stall with those 410 gears. I'm wondering where your power peak is? A dyno pull might be helpful to get optimum tune.

Rev

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

I totaly agree with this guy :cool:

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

According to my cam card, the cam makes it's peak power at 5500.
I'm gaining 22 mph between the 1/8 mark and the traps, which I'm told is good. I'm wondering just how much my carb, and intake is hurting me with gains like that.
I'm starting to lean towards improper timing in the dizzy or it's coming in too late.

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

For the most part I agree with Rev & Dark5.0

My opinion would be to lose the Carter (they were crap 30 years ago, and unless they have made major changes to it, i'd say they are probably still crap).

I personally think a 650 with that combination is just cutting it to close to the edge. Get a 750 and spend some time getting it right on. Move up to an RPM or a Victor Jr. That motor is gonna want to suck some serious atmosphere.

I think you're flirting with the edge of the envelope with that stall too ... I'd move that up a little as well, even with the 4:10's

The heads are hard to judge ... to get stocker 351 heads to perform for spit with your combo, you would have to really do some extensive work on them, and it would have to be by somebody that knows his Shite. If it was just some joe blow that did the head work, they could very well be worse than they were out of the box, and thats not very good.

At any rate, let us know what you do and how it turns out !! :)

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

Hey hotroddin, remember wayyyy back a year or so ago when I was still building this engine and you wanted to know how it turned out?
Well...you read it...13.4's out of the box with pretty much no tune.
It will do much better when I get the parts it wants.
Hey, it's the first engine I ever built and it seems to be a pretty good one that just needs fine tuned.
BTW, the guy that ported my heads is a very good guy and would recommend him to anyone.
When I was getting parts around for my engine I asked people who to go to for machine work and head work and they all said either this guy or a speed shop that was in the next town.
I'm going to get an advance kit for the dizzy and find out what exactly my total timing is and when it comes in.
I'll keep you posted

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

Yeah I remember but I can't believe it's been that long !!
Very respectable out of the box, and i'm sure you had a lot of fun putting it together. I have no doubt you'll be in the 12's in no time.

The one i'm putting together is still a pile of parts in the garage, so you're way ahead of me ! :p lol It's actually my son who is funding this one, and he's 22 and has other priorities right now, but his interest is coming back, so i think we'll get started back on it pretty soon hopefully !! :confused:

Re: New track times...still not happy
 

A word of advise though...you might want to consider a tad bit larger stall converter. I can't leave the line hard enough with my 2500 stall and I think that's hurting my 60' times.
You'll be deep in the 12's with your setup and that light falcon body.