Oh Nooooooo!!!!

jimdrechsler · 07-20-2004, 06:02 PM

ok, i was driving the other day on highway and thought i smelt radiator fluid. ignored it and went out again today and smelt it again. i decided to check oil and notice it is real thin and a bit higher than normal. when driving, the temp gauge and oil pressure seem to be normal. i didnt see white in the oil, but last time i added fluid, it was mostly water. this could be why it is mostly light color brown and runny. is it a cracked block??? i hope to god not, this motor only has 15,000 miles on it (supposedly). Help. how do i know what it is for sure. thanks,

jim

also, any guesses on repairs????

jimdrechsler · 07-20-2004, 08:30 PM

i talked with my mechanic who works on the side for me and he says that it is probably the intake manifold. he said to drain about a quart of oil in a couple days and keep it in a jar and see if it separates. he didnt think it was the head gasket. if it happens to be the intake or head gasket, are there any mods that i should do while it is being fixed? i see this as an opportunity rather a problem!(I hope)!

He also said i could buy a kit that I place a sample of my oil in and send it away. they read it and get back to me on what they found. anyone do this? and where did yo find the kit? thanks

jim

codybear · 07-20-2004, 08:40 PM

How does the radiator fluid look? could be a head gasket

jimdrechsler · 07-20-2004, 08:43 PM

it sits relly low in the over flow thing. it appears to look the same as before which is dirty looking. sholdnt it be white though if it is a head gasket?

i actually just looked in the radiator and saw a brown like film on top of it!!!!! loks green in the over flow tank though

Ieatcamaros · 07-20-2004, 08:50 PM

Most of the time with a blown head gasket, you have no heat and white smoke out of the tailpipe. It is most likely an intake gasket. You can tell by looking at the plugs too.

jimdrechsler · 07-20-2004, 08:52 PM

i just edited my previous post.

~The Jester~ · 07-20-2004, 11:43 PM

If it's a head gasket it depends where it's blown. If it blew between combustion and coolant, then you get the white smoke out the exhaust for sure, possibly white creamy oil, and possibly oil in the radiator. If it blew between oil and coolant, you get white creamy oil.

Sounds to me like a head gasket. Especially since you have "brown stuff" (oil) in the radiator. Usually an intake gasket won't do that. Since the cooling system is pressurized, it's tough for an intake gasket to put oil in there since there's no pressure on the intake side. A blown head gasket will use cylinder pressure to force oil into the cooling system. 180+psi cylinder pressure vs. 16 psi cooling system.

Good luck, let us know!

88fivepointoh · 07-23-2004, 07:16 AM

head gasket... Most definetly..

crazypete · 07-23-2004, 08:49 AM

Well, once you got the lower intake off, you can pull both heads with little extra fuss. Just pull the top off the motor and answer the question definitely.

You should consider doing that project yourself and save some money: just get a 12 piece socket set with a ratchet. It's just a few wire connectors, some hoses and 58 bolts for everything (I'm sure I forgot something =) though) and 2-3 hours of fun! Replace both head gaskets and the intake gaskets with high quality ones while you're in there. You'll end up saving some $$$ and ending up with some tools to boot and some familiarity with the engine (the major plus).

For pertinent upgrades......get the cobra upper/lower. Good and cheap. Take 1 intake off and put a better one back on. Also some high quality gaskets. If you wanna go all out, get some gt-40p heads and put those back on instead of the e7's. Get short plugs (accel 5276S's) and 90 degree wires and you can keep your current exhaust setup.

Dont forget to flush the cooling system after all that fun!

jimdrechsler · 07-23-2004, 08:50 AM

any idea on cost to fix if it is that? and how do they test for sure to find out.

i was thinking of bringing it in to a shop and just say that i smell fluid (not telling them that i know something is majorly wrong with it) and to chekc it out for me. maybe they will diagnose it for sure for free!

88fivepointoh · 07-23-2004, 09:26 AM

Its most likely the head gaskets. I bet all my savings on it. do it yourself and pay $150 bucks max for good gaskets. bring it somewhere and you'll get cheap parts, and pay 600 or more dollars +, and get a bunch of bull in the process...

jimdrechsler · 07-23-2004, 02:40 PM

thanks for replies. i think i may try and do that myself. i will videotape the motor fist and disassemble after. if i forget where something goes, i can watch it on video! haha so there isnt anything major i can mess up in doing this myself, as i am not an expert by any means. i can change front brakes, and thats about it! thanks

jim

oh yeah, was this caused by using my nitrous at all you think?

jimdrechsler · 07-24-2004, 09:32 AM

i saw a friend out last night and told him about my car. he said to tell for sure that is an easy way is to stick about 100 psi? of air thorugh the radiator and i can see where it is being pushed out. anyone do this before??

Capri306 · 07-26-2004, 01:15 AM

I had the exact same symptoms on my '79 Capri, dude. Turns out it was the intake manifold gasket leaking in the left bank rear corner. Frickin' RTV!!!

That crap creeped up behind the gasket and made a virtual river of coolant spew into the lifter valley. Talk about being pissed off...

Anyhoo, the things I learned from that:

1. RTV is EVIL in a TUBE. Use only the required amount.
2. The lower intake bolts do NOT need that much torque, no matter how much it feels like it needs more. 20 lb-ft is the maximum.

rdy2rn2 · 07-30-2004, 03:37 PM

if the car does not run rough then it is not the intake. the intake would cause a vacuum leak and naturally a miss. if the cap has oil cap, has any cream on it it is really blown. it sounds as if a waterpassage may be cracked due to the oil level being high but being able to smell coolant. check your freeze plugs too.

HotRoddin · 08-02-2004, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimdrechsler
an easy way is to stick about 100 psi? of air thorugh the radiator

DO NOT put 100 psi in the radiator !!!

Ieatcamaros · 08-02-2004, 09:14 PM

Quote:

RTV is EVIL in a TUBE. Use only the required amount.

Amen to that.

I know some will disagree with me, but I never use it unless I have to. I have taken several water pumps off and seen where the previous installer used a ton of the blue rtv on the gasket. Leaving only about half of the water passage open. Plus it looks funky sticking out around all the edges. They make gaskets for a reason.

jimdrechsler · 08-04-2004, 05:30 PM

i dropped it off with a guy who works on my cars out of his garage for cheap. he tested it when it was cold about 15 PSI i think and said it held well. he has to wait for a new "nec" before he can test it when its hot. he thinks it is an external leak i am smelling. he took a sample of oil and looked at that as well. he thought it just looked very dirty. hopefully ill know more soon. thanks for replies guys. ill keep you posted. looks like it could be cheaper than i thought.

jimdrechsler · 08-07-2004, 01:46 PM

This is what the final verdict is. good news. the crap i saw at the top of the fluid must of been corrision from the overflow tank. the car just doesnt seem as fast as it used to be, but it could be in my head. the smell must have been the antifreeze burning off the motor after it leaked a bit! her is waht my mechanic said:

i gave him 20 bux, he asked for 15 bux!

Based on Pressure checks Hot and Cold, could not find any major
problems(Intake Gkst, Head Gskt, cracked head..etc.) . As I noted I did find
leaks at Upper Hose at Thermostat, and By pass hose.
The one baffling item is there is a slight amount of water in the
oil. However it appears to have no anti-freeze in it. This is a good sign
since appears to be moisture(condensation) in the motor that settled out.
The oil did not appear "Milky" at all.

07-20-2004, 06:02 PM	#1
jimdrechsler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 167	Oh Nooooooo!!!! ok, i was driving the other day on highway and thought i smelt radiator fluid. ignored it and went out again today and smelt it again. i decided to check oil and notice it is real thin and a bit higher than normal. when driving, the temp gauge and oil pressure seem to be normal. i didnt see white in the oil, but last time i added fluid, it was mostly water. this could be why it is mostly light color brown and runny. is it a cracked block??? i hope to god not, this motor only has 15,000 miles on it (supposedly). Help. how do i know what it is for sure. thanks, jim also, any guesses on repairs???? __________________ OLD CAR-89 lx convt- Flowtech II headers, H-pipe, 2 1/2 "flowmasters- pulleys- 3.73's, ripper shifter- ram air- Best 1/4 mile time- a measley 14.2 at 98.6 PRESENT CAR- 90 LX BBK long tubes, h-pipe with cats, flowmasters. 3.55's holley systemax II kit- 70 mm TB 30#injectors, jacobs ignition, black magic fan, 180 thermostat, 75 shot of NOS- NITTO DR'S STREET TIRE BEST RUNS 1/4 mile13.2 @112 w/ NOS 2.17 60' 13.5 @103 2.1 60' *new time with Dr's 12.8 at 111 w/ 75 shot

07-20-2004, 08:30 PM	#2
jimdrechsler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 167	i talked with my mechanic who works on the side for me and he says that it is probably the intake manifold. he said to drain about a quart of oil in a couple days and keep it in a jar and see if it separates. he didnt think it was the head gasket. if it happens to be the intake or head gasket, are there any mods that i should do while it is being fixed? i see this as an opportunity rather a problem!(I hope)! He also said i could buy a kit that I place a sample of my oil in and send it away. they read it and get back to me on what they found. anyone do this? and where did yo find the kit? thanks jim __________________ OLD CAR-89 lx convt- Flowtech II headers, H-pipe, 2 1/2 "flowmasters- pulleys- 3.73's, ripper shifter- ram air- Best 1/4 mile time- a measley 14.2 at 98.6 PRESENT CAR- 90 LX BBK long tubes, h-pipe with cats, flowmasters. 3.55's holley systemax II kit- 70 mm TB 30#injectors, jacobs ignition, black magic fan, 180 thermostat, 75 shot of NOS- NITTO DR'S STREET TIRE BEST RUNS 1/4 mile13.2 @112 w/ NOS 2.17 60' 13.5 @103 2.1 60' *new time with Dr's 12.8 at 111 w/ 75 shot

07-20-2004, 08:43 PM	#4
jimdrechsler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 167	it sits relly low in the over flow thing. it appears to look the same as before which is dirty looking. sholdnt it be white though if it is a head gasket? i actually just looked in the radiator and saw a brown like film on top of it!!!!! loks green in the over flow tank though __________________ OLD CAR-89 lx convt- Flowtech II headers, H-pipe, 2 1/2 "flowmasters- pulleys- 3.73's, ripper shifter- ram air- Best 1/4 mile time- a measley 14.2 at 98.6 PRESENT CAR- 90 LX BBK long tubes, h-pipe with cats, flowmasters. 3.55's holley systemax II kit- 70 mm TB 30#injectors, jacobs ignition, black magic fan, 180 thermostat, 75 shot of NOS- NITTO DR'S STREET TIRE BEST RUNS 1/4 mile13.2 @112 w/ NOS 2.17 60' 13.5 @103 2.1 60' *new time with Dr's 12.8 at 111 w/ 75 shot

07-20-2004, 08:50 PM	#5
Ieatcamaros Domestic Rice really sucks! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: KY Posts: 973	Most of the time with a blown head gasket, you have no heat and white smoke out of the tailpipe. It is most likely an intake gasket. You can tell by looking at the plugs too. __________________ The sig says it all.

07-20-2004, 08:52 PM	#6
jimdrechsler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 167	i just edited my previous post. __________________ OLD CAR-89 lx convt- Flowtech II headers, H-pipe, 2 1/2 "flowmasters- pulleys- 3.73's, ripper shifter- ram air- Best 1/4 mile time- a measley 14.2 at 98.6 PRESENT CAR- 90 LX BBK long tubes, h-pipe with cats, flowmasters. 3.55's holley systemax II kit- 70 mm TB 30#injectors, jacobs ignition, black magic fan, 180 thermostat, 75 shot of NOS- NITTO DR'S STREET TIRE BEST RUNS 1/4 mile13.2 @112 w/ NOS 2.17 60' 13.5 @103 2.1 60' *new time with Dr's 12.8 at 111 w/ 75 shot

07-20-2004, 08:40 PM	#3
codybear Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 63	How does the radiator fluid look? could be a head gasket

07-20-2004, 11:43 PM	#7
~The Jester~ Rat Killer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cold ass Ohio Posts: 1,143	If it's a head gasket it depends where it's blown. If it blew between combustion and coolant, then you get the white smoke out the exhaust for sure, possibly white creamy oil, and possibly oil in the radiator. If it blew between oil and coolant, you get white creamy oil. Sounds to me like a head gasket. Especially since you have "brown stuff" (oil) in the radiator. Usually an intake gasket won't do that. Since the cooling system is pressurized, it's tough for an intake gasket to put oil in there since there's no pressure on the intake side. A blown head gasket will use cylinder pressure to force oil into the cooling system. 180+psi cylinder pressure vs. 16 psi cooling system. Good luck, let us know! __________________ d-Con Racing "Nothing fancy, just 347 inches of RAT POISON!" MICE need not apply.....

07-23-2004, 07:16 AM	#8
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	head gasket... Most definetly..

07-23-2004, 08:49 AM	#9
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Well, once you got the lower intake off, you can pull both heads with little extra fuss. Just pull the top off the motor and answer the question definitely. You should consider doing that project yourself and save some money: just get a 12 piece socket set with a ratchet. It's just a few wire connectors, some hoses and 58 bolts for everything (I'm sure I forgot something =) though) and 2-3 hours of fun! Replace both head gaskets and the intake gaskets with high quality ones while you're in there. You'll end up saving some $$$ and ending up with some tools to boot and some familiarity with the engine (the major plus). For pertinent upgrades......get the cobra upper/lower. Good and cheap. Take 1 intake off and put a better one back on. Also some high quality gaskets. If you wanna go all out, get some gt-40p heads and put those back on instead of the e7's. Get short plugs (accel 5276S's) and 90 degree wires and you can keep your current exhaust setup. Dont forget to flush the cooling system after all that fun! __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

07-23-2004, 08:50 AM	#10
jimdrechsler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 167	any idea on cost to fix if it is that? and how do they test for sure to find out. i was thinking of bringing it in to a shop and just say that i smell fluid (not telling them that i know something is majorly wrong with it) and to chekc it out for me. maybe they will diagnose it for sure for free! __________________ OLD CAR-89 lx convt- Flowtech II headers, H-pipe, 2 1/2 "flowmasters- pulleys- 3.73's, ripper shifter- ram air- Best 1/4 mile time- a measley 14.2 at 98.6 PRESENT CAR- 90 LX BBK long tubes, h-pipe with cats, flowmasters. 3.55's holley systemax II kit- 70 mm TB 30#injectors, jacobs ignition, black magic fan, 180 thermostat, 75 shot of NOS- NITTO DR'S STREET TIRE BEST RUNS 1/4 mile13.2 @112 w/ NOS 2.17 60' 13.5 @103 2.1 60' *new time with Dr's 12.8 at 111 w/ 75 shot

07-23-2004, 09:26 AM	#11
88fivepointoh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Rochester Posts: 553	Its most likely the head gaskets. I bet all my savings on it. do it yourself and pay $150 bucks max for good gaskets. bring it somewhere and you'll get cheap parts, and pay 600 or more dollars +, and get a bunch of bull in the process...

07-23-2004, 02:40 PM	#12
jimdrechsler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 167	thanks for replies. i think i may try and do that myself. i will videotape the motor fist and disassemble after. if i forget where something goes, i can watch it on video! haha so there isnt anything major i can mess up in doing this myself, as i am not an expert by any means. i can change front brakes, and thats about it! thanks jim oh yeah, was this caused by using my nitrous at all you think? __________________ OLD CAR-89 lx convt- Flowtech II headers, H-pipe, 2 1/2 "flowmasters- pulleys- 3.73's, ripper shifter- ram air- Best 1/4 mile time- a measley 14.2 at 98.6 PRESENT CAR- 90 LX BBK long tubes, h-pipe with cats, flowmasters. 3.55's holley systemax II kit- 70 mm TB 30#injectors, jacobs ignition, black magic fan, 180 thermostat, 75 shot of NOS- NITTO DR'S STREET TIRE BEST RUNS 1/4 mile13.2 @112 w/ NOS 2.17 60' 13.5 @103 2.1 60' *new time with Dr's 12.8 at 111 w/ 75 shot

07-24-2004, 09:32 AM	#13
jimdrechsler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 167	i saw a friend out last night and told him about my car. he said to tell for sure that is an easy way is to stick about 100 psi? of air thorugh the radiator and i can see where it is being pushed out. anyone do this before?? __________________ OLD CAR-89 lx convt- Flowtech II headers, H-pipe, 2 1/2 "flowmasters- pulleys- 3.73's, ripper shifter- ram air- Best 1/4 mile time- a measley 14.2 at 98.6 PRESENT CAR- 90 LX BBK long tubes, h-pipe with cats, flowmasters. 3.55's holley systemax II kit- 70 mm TB 30#injectors, jacobs ignition, black magic fan, 180 thermostat, 75 shot of NOS- NITTO DR'S STREET TIRE BEST RUNS 1/4 mile13.2 @112 w/ NOS 2.17 60' 13.5 @103 2.1 60' *new time with Dr's 12.8 at 111 w/ 75 shot

07-26-2004, 01:15 AM	#14
Capri306 Moderator Join Date: Sep 1998 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,001	I had the exact same symptoms on my '79 Capri, dude. Turns out it was the intake manifold gasket leaking in the left bank rear corner. Frickin' RTV!!! That crap creeped up behind the gasket and made a virtual river of coolant spew into the lifter valley. Talk about being pissed off... Anyhoo, the things I learned from that: 1. RTV is EVIL in a TUBE. Use only the required amount. 2. The lower intake bolts do NOT need that much torque, no matter how much it feels like it needs more. 20 lb-ft is the maximum. __________________ Capri306, Moderator The Mustang Works Online 1979 Mercury Capri 1987 5.0L Mustang LX Notchback 1993 5.8L Eddie Bauer Bronco

07-30-2004, 03:37 PM	#15
rdy2rn2 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: virginia Posts: 9	leak if the car does not run rough then it is not the intake. the intake would cause a vacuum leak and naturally a miss. if the cap has oil cap, has any cream on it it is really blown. it sounds as if a waterpassage may be cracked due to the oil level being high but being able to smell coolant. check your freeze plugs too.

08-04-2004, 05:30 PM	#18
jimdrechsler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 167	i dropped it off with a guy who works on my cars out of his garage for cheap. he tested it when it was cold about 15 PSI i think and said it held well. he has to wait for a new "nec" before he can test it when its hot. he thinks it is an external leak i am smelling. he took a sample of oil and looked at that as well. he thought it just looked very dirty. hopefully ill know more soon. thanks for replies guys. ill keep you posted. looks like it could be cheaper than i thought. __________________ OLD CAR-89 lx convt- Flowtech II headers, H-pipe, 2 1/2 "flowmasters- pulleys- 3.73's, ripper shifter- ram air- Best 1/4 mile time- a measley 14.2 at 98.6 PRESENT CAR- 90 LX BBK long tubes, h-pipe with cats, flowmasters. 3.55's holley systemax II kit- 70 mm TB 30#injectors, jacobs ignition, black magic fan, 180 thermostat, 75 shot of NOS- NITTO DR'S STREET TIRE BEST RUNS 1/4 mile13.2 @112 w/ NOS 2.17 60' 13.5 @103 2.1 60' *new time with Dr's 12.8 at 111 w/ 75 shot

08-07-2004, 01:46 PM	#19
jimdrechsler Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 167	This is what the final verdict is. good news. the crap i saw at the top of the fluid must of been corrision from the overflow tank. the car just doesnt seem as fast as it used to be, but it could be in my head. the smell must have been the antifreeze burning off the motor after it leaked a bit! her is waht my mechanic said: i gave him 20 bux, he asked for 15 bux! Based on Pressure checks Hot and Cold, could not find any major problems(Intake Gkst, Head Gskt, cracked head..etc.) . As I noted I did find leaks at Upper Hose at Thermostat, and By pass hose. The one baffling item is there is a slight amount of water in the oil. However it appears to have no anti-freeze in it. This is a good sign since appears to be moisture(condensation) in the motor that settled out. The oil did not appear "Milky" at all. __________________ OLD CAR-89 lx convt- Flowtech II headers, H-pipe, 2 1/2 "flowmasters- pulleys- 3.73's, ripper shifter- ram air- Best 1/4 mile time- a measley 14.2 at 98.6 PRESENT CAR- 90 LX BBK long tubes, h-pipe with cats, flowmasters. 3.55's holley systemax II kit- 70 mm TB 30#injectors, jacobs ignition, black magic fan, 180 thermostat, 75 shot of NOS- NITTO DR'S STREET TIRE BEST RUNS 1/4 mile13.2 @112 w/ NOS 2.17 60' 13.5 @103 2.1 60' *new time with Dr's 12.8 at 111 w/ 75 shot