optimum running temp?

jerrys84 · 05-30-2002, 10:54 AM

last two days the outdoor temp has been about 90..

my car has a 195 stat. while driving, the temp stays at about 195 or so, but if i have to sit at a light for any length of time, the temp starts rising.. last night it went to about 225 (but when i parked it the guage went past 240), and this morning it went up to about 215...

it only started doing this the last two days... so, just curious what is a safe max temp?

should i consider replacing the fan?? if so, with what?

radiator, stat, water pump are all new, and i checked the coolant level this morning ..

thx

sn95gt19 · 05-30-2002, 11:23 AM

the optimum running temp should be what your stock thermostat is at. the factory sets everything to run at that temp. stock temp thermostat is the best. i would check into an electric fan, or see what else is causing your problems.

gtsr515 · 05-30-2002, 11:24 AM

Your fine, make sure your coolant level is correct, and make sure it's fresh too.

Try a 180 stat and see if it helps, it may or may not.

I've run a 180 in summer and a 192 in winter

jerrys84 · 05-30-2002, 11:38 AM

i just looked at the water wetter web site, they claim a test where water and water wetter were the base line temp.

with water and 50% glycol the increase in head temp was 45 deg..

with water and 70% glycol the increase in head temp was 65 deg..

interesting

sn95gt19 · 05-30-2002, 12:10 PM

i used the water wetter, and i didnt notice any difference in temperature.

Grn92LX · 05-30-2002, 12:44 PM

Replace your fan clutch with a new one. 30 minute job. Optimum running temp is around 200*. Unlike what most believe, cooler is NOT better. From what i've read, Ford t-stats are the best. I would say for a blower motor, you may want it running cooler than this, but thats just my guess. You should try running a 70/30 water/antifreeze mix too. My car seems to run around 200* at all times regardless of outside temp.

mysweetlx · 05-30-2002, 01:33 PM

225-240 is a bit high. I run a 180* t-stat and I'm usually around 180-195*, never any higher.

Mr 5 0 · 05-30-2002, 02:10 PM

Around 200 degrees running temperature is normal with a maximum of around 230 degrees. Beyond that you're in a danger zone.

The temp always goes up after you shut the engine off as there is no fan in operation, no water circulation and no heat is being dissipated so the heat sits there and the temperature rises for a bit until it naturally dissipates.

Since everything else in the cooling system is new and the temp only rises at idle it would be logical to conclude that you most likely need a new fan clutch unit. A Motorcraft unit is fine unless you want to go with an electric fan set-up. Your choice.

PKRWUD · 05-30-2002, 03:34 PM

There is alot of good advice in this thread. The typical t-stat Ford uses in the Mustang 5.0 is 192 degree version, with a pinhole bleeder for burping naturally. They are the only replacement t-stat worth anything. The optimum operating temp is actually about 210, but the engineers at Ford try to keep it between 200 and 205. Coolant is a VERY misleading name. It's effect is quite the opposite. Coolant actually retains heat, and raises the boiling point, so your engine will run hotter, but it won't boil over. IMO, this is a bad thing, because sometimes the only way some people ever know there is a problem is because their radiator overflows. The recommended 50/50 mix is a joke. In the Arctic Circle, 70% water and 30% coolant is the most you'll need. In the tropics, 10% coolant is plenty, and would really only serve the purpose of lubricating the waterpump and conditioning the mixture to protect the metals and hoses it contacts, from deterioration.

If your cap is less than a year old, replace it too, although I don't see that as your problem. Replacing the fan clutch should solve it.

Take care,
-Chris

302 LX Eric · 05-30-2002, 06:13 PM

Just as a side note to Chris' reply:

A couple of winters ago, I went out to start the Stang to find that the 'Antifreeze' had froze. I was running probably 10-20% antifreeze and the rest water. I had to wait a few days until the temps came up so that I could drain and refill with more antifreeze.

Now, I run 80/20 (water/coolant) in the summer and switch back to 50/50 in the winter just to be safe.

E

PKRWUD · 05-30-2002, 06:56 PM

That's interesting! I wonder how old it was, or what kind. I am yet to see anything like that, and I appreciate the input. I'll remember that.

Take care,
-Chris

jerrys84 · 05-31-2002, 12:04 AM

ok....

new fan (no clutch), new 195 stat, refilled system at approx 75-25 (water- anti-freeze)..

ran for about 15 minutes, thought i had it, temp stayed at 200, then increased to 240 and was going higher...

the one thing i did'nt mention was, i don't have a shroud for this car.... didn't have one on it the last two years... could that cause the trouble?? never had any problems before..

Coupe5oh · 05-31-2002, 01:12 AM

the shroud shouldnt cause a big problem with overheating, but im glad i had one when my police hd clutch fan let go, and destroyed my radiator, and shroud, it saved my hood from severe damage, now i have a black magic electric that has its own shroud, and i like it.

To the "cooler is not better" comment, i disagree, i track tested all three, 195, 180, 160, i found 180 to be good for living in tx and all, the 195 slowed me down on hot laps, as the 180 kept me making good power run after run, and not sluggish, the 160 was too cool, and caused a rich condition.

PKRWUD · 05-31-2002, 03:24 AM

Actually, the fan shroud is a very important part of the system. When combined with the fan, it creates a vacuum that sucks more air through more of the radiator. While you might be okay without one, you are better with one. And, as the radiator slowly clogs over time, the absence of a shroud will cause a problem. There is no guarantee that a shroud alone will solve your problem, but it will definately make a difference. They don't put them there just to protect your fingers!

Take care,
-Chris

LOBE_50 · 05-31-2002, 08:57 AM

From what i have learned 200*-210* is the most efficient temp for horsepower production in a 5.0L

Water Wetter works best with plain tap water, of course in the winter antifreeze should be used if used/stored outside or unheated storage.

I am now running a 195* tstat w/ 100% water and water wetter. Temp stays right around 190*-205* normally

Thanx,
LOBE
~~~~

jerrys84 · 05-31-2002, 09:14 AM

the lack of a shroud could be it.... this is a reman motor bored .60.

after thinking about it i never drove it when it was above 75 deg.

so if the shroud isn't there the airflow through the radiator while sitting in traffic can't be much and with the thinner cylinder walls, it must transfer much more heat...

called salvage yards, no one has a shroud.... so i guess i'll be installing an electric this weekend, hopefully that'll take care of it..

Rick 91GT · 05-31-2002, 09:56 AM

One thing no one has mentioned is that unless the factory EEC see's 180 degrees it will stay in limp mode which pulls timing and adds fuel.

The fan shroud is very important and should help solve your problems, the electric fan will be a good investment, make sure you get a decent fan controller. Like Rob said the Water Wetter is made to be used with plain water, no anti freeze. Evans makes a additive that is said to decrease temps a lot but it runs about $40/gal.

jerrys84 · 05-31-2002, 10:10 PM

update;

installed elec fan tonight (1350 cfm), much better, but the outdoor temp is about 75 deg...

while driving, temp was about 200 plus or minus, while idling it ran about 220 - 230..

currently has a 195 stat (thinking of trying a 180) and buying a 'good' guage..

i also just remember'd the radiator is for a stock GT with air.. i don't think it's enough.......

checked ebay, i can get a new 27 1/2 x19 aluminum 2 core for $230.00.

or a '4 month old rad with electric fan for $150.00

i think we almost have it sorted..

a bit more input please..

PKRWUD · 06-01-2002, 08:09 PM

My buddy and I built a 302 and dropped it into a 64 Ranchero. The engine was built more than yours, and we used a simple Pinto radiator and a Black magic electric fan. Never ran hot.

Take care,
-Chris

jerrys84 · 06-05-2002, 08:12 AM

installed 180 stat, also installed a 14" pusher and a 16" puller fans, removed the AC..

outdoor temp, 60 degrees, temp runs 195 plus or minus at idle and at speed..

sound about right??

thanx for all the help and input..

05-30-2002, 10:54 AM	#1
jerrys84 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: minnesota Posts: 129	optimum running temp? last two days the outdoor temp has been about 90.. my car has a 195 stat. while driving, the temp stays at about 195 or so, but if i have to sit at a light for any length of time, the temp starts rising.. last night it went to about 225 (but when i parked it the guage went past 240), and this morning it went up to about 215... it only started doing this the last two days... so, just curious what is a safe max temp? should i consider replacing the fan?? if so, with what? radiator, stat, water pump are all new, and i checked the coolant level this morning .. thx __________________ 91 LX 'work in progress' previous stangs; lightly modded 84GT 81 2.3 converted to 302 auto

05-30-2002, 11:23 AM	#2
sn95gt19 motors done......woohooo Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 799	the optimum running temp should be what your stock thermostat is at. the factory sets everything to run at that temp. stock temp thermostat is the best. i would check into an electric fan, or see what else is causing your problems. __________________ 95gt lazer red (98 cobra clone) Rice Haters Club Member #116

05-30-2002, 11:24 AM	#3
gtsr515 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Sunny, Hot, Sebring, Florida Posts: 725	Your fine, make sure your coolant level is correct, and make sure it's fresh too. Try a 180 stat and see if it helps, it may or may not. I've run a 180 in summer and a 192 in winter __________________ Remember...2nd place is 1st place for losers!

05-30-2002, 11:38 AM	#4
jerrys84 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: minnesota Posts: 129	water wetter i just looked at the water wetter web site, they claim a test where water and water wetter were the base line temp. with water and 50% glycol the increase in head temp was 45 deg.. with water and 70% glycol the increase in head temp was 65 deg.. interesting __________________ 91 LX 'work in progress' previous stangs; lightly modded 84GT 81 2.3 converted to 302 auto

05-30-2002, 12:10 PM	#5
sn95gt19 motors done......woohooo Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 799	i used the water wetter, and i didnt notice any difference in temperature. __________________ 95gt lazer red (98 cobra clone) Rice Haters Club Member #116

05-30-2002, 12:44 PM	#6
Grn92LX Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 55	Replace your fan clutch with a new one. 30 minute job. Optimum running temp is around 200. Unlike what most believe, cooler is NOT better. From what i've read, Ford t-stats are the best. I would say for a blower motor, you may want it running cooler than this, but thats just my guess. You should try running a 70/30 water/antifreeze mix too. My car seems to run around 200 at all times regardless of outside temp. __________________ TFS heads/FTI custom cam/TFS street heat, Longtubes, 373's, MM lca's, Tokico springs/shocks

05-30-2002, 01:33 PM	#7
mysweetlx Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New York Posts: 248	225-240 is a bit high. I run a 180* t-stat and I'm usually around 180-195*, never any higher. __________________ Damn this thing's fast!

05-30-2002, 02:10 PM	#8
Mr 5 0 Conservative Individualist Join Date: May 1997 Location: Wherever I need to be Posts: 7,487	Taking the 5.0 temperature Around 200 degrees running temperature is normal with a maximum of around 230 degrees. Beyond that you're in a danger zone. The temp always goes up after you shut the engine off as there is no fan in operation, no water circulation and no heat is being dissipated so the heat sits there and the temperature rises for a bit until it naturally dissipates. Since everything else in the cooling system is new and the temp only rises at idle it would be logical to conclude that you most likely need a new fan clutch unit. A Motorcraft unit is fine unless you want to go with an electric fan set-up. Your choice.

05-30-2002, 03:34 PM	#9
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	There is alot of good advice in this thread. The typical t-stat Ford uses in the Mustang 5.0 is 192 degree version, with a pinhole bleeder for burping naturally. They are the only replacement t-stat worth anything. The optimum operating temp is actually about 210, but the engineers at Ford try to keep it between 200 and 205. Coolant is a VERY misleading name. It's effect is quite the opposite. Coolant actually retains heat, and raises the boiling point, so your engine will run hotter, but it won't boil over. IMO, this is a bad thing, because sometimes the only way some people ever know there is a problem is because their radiator overflows. The recommended 50/50 mix is a joke. In the Arctic Circle, 70% water and 30% coolant is the most you'll need. In the tropics, 10% coolant is plenty, and would really only serve the purpose of lubricating the waterpump and conditioning the mixture to protect the metals and hoses it contacts, from deterioration. If your cap is less than a year old, replace it too, although I don't see that as your problem. Replacing the fan clutch should solve it. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-30-2002, 06:13 PM	#10
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	Just as a side note to Chris' reply: A couple of winters ago, I went out to start the Stang to find that the 'Antifreeze' had froze. I was running probably 10-20% antifreeze and the rest water. I had to wait a few days until the temps came up so that I could drain and refill with more antifreeze. Now, I run 80/20 (water/coolant) in the summer and switch back to 50/50 in the winter just to be safe. E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

05-30-2002, 06:56 PM	#11
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	That's interesting! I wonder how old it was, or what kind. I am yet to see anything like that, and I appreciate the input. I'll remember that. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-31-2002, 12:04 AM	#12
jerrys84 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: minnesota Posts: 129	ok.... new fan (no clutch), new 195 stat, refilled system at approx 75-25 (water- anti-freeze).. ran for about 15 minutes, thought i had it, temp stayed at 200, then increased to 240 and was going higher... the one thing i did'nt mention was, i don't have a shroud for this car.... didn't have one on it the last two years... could that cause the trouble?? never had any problems before.. __________________ 91 LX 'work in progress' previous stangs; lightly modded 84GT 81 2.3 converted to 302 auto

05-31-2002, 01:12 AM	#13
Coupe5oh Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SanAntonio, Tx Posts: 734	the shroud shouldnt cause a big problem with overheating, but im glad i had one when my police hd clutch fan let go, and destroyed my radiator, and shroud, it saved my hood from severe damage, now i have a black magic electric that has its own shroud, and i like it. To the "cooler is not better" comment, i disagree, i track tested all three, 195, 180, 160, i found 180 to be good for living in tx and all, the 195 slowed me down on hot laps, as the 180 kept me making good power run after run, and not sluggish, the 160 was too cool, and caused a rich condition. __________________ Police package 5spd 90 Lx, Stock original motor, 3.27grs, BM fan, fms 10.5 clutch, D&D quadrant, and adjuster, ADS chip, 180 stat, mac cai, mac h-pipe, mac subframe connectors, ASP crank pulley, ripper shifter, 26x10.5 M/T sport pros welds. 246 hp according to analyzer Race weight: 3,120 E.t-13.57 with 26x10.50's e.t. streets. 1.88 60' mph- 99.92 mph

05-31-2002, 03:24 AM	#14
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Actually, the fan shroud is a very important part of the system. When combined with the fan, it creates a vacuum that sucks more air through more of the radiator. While you might be okay without one, you are better with one. And, as the radiator slowly clogs over time, the absence of a shroud will cause a problem. There is no guarantee that a shroud alone will solve your problem, but it will definately make a difference. They don't put them there just to protect your fingers! Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-31-2002, 08:57 AM	#15
LOBE_50 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: RI Posts: 30	From what i have learned 200-210 is the most efficient temp for horsepower production in a 5.0L Water Wetter works best with plain tap water, of course in the winter antifreeze should be used if used/stored outside or unheated storage. I am now running a 195* tstat w/ 100% water and water wetter. Temp stays right around 190-205 normally Thanx, LOBE ~~~~ __________________ 1991 Mustang GT, 1 5/8" Jet-Hot coated BBK Long tubes, w/ matching shorty o/r H-pipe, Flowmaster cat back 2 chambers, 3.55:1 gears, Kenne Belle RAM Air (may be removing), Underdrive pulleys. , C&L 76mm Mass Air meter, 65mm FMS TB. Soon to be added intakes and then HEADS.

05-31-2002, 09:14 AM	#16
jerrys84 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: minnesota Posts: 129	the lack of a shroud could be it.... this is a reman motor bored .60. after thinking about it i never drove it when it was above 75 deg. so if the shroud isn't there the airflow through the radiator while sitting in traffic can't be much and with the thinner cylinder walls, it must transfer much more heat... called salvage yards, no one has a shroud.... so i guess i'll be installing an electric this weekend, hopefully that'll take care of it.. __________________ 91 LX 'work in progress' previous stangs; lightly modded 84GT 81 2.3 converted to 302 auto

05-31-2002, 09:56 AM	#17
Rick 91GT Procharged! Join Date: May 1999 Location: Hanover, PA Posts: 1,539	One thing no one has mentioned is that unless the factory EEC see's 180 degrees it will stay in limp mode which pulls timing and adds fuel. The fan shroud is very important and should help solve your problems, the electric fan will be a good investment, make sure you get a decent fan controller. Like Rob said the Water Wetter is made to be used with plain water, no anti freeze. Evans makes a additive that is said to decrease temps a lot but it runs about $40/gal. __________________ *D/R 10108 NMRA Drag Radial, 25.5 chassis, F1R* *Check out RNH Performance Performance Engines and Custom Fabrication.* *From Mild to Wild we can build what you want, when you want it.* FOR SALE Stainless Steel Torque Box Supports

05-31-2002, 10:10 PM	#18
jerrys84 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: minnesota Posts: 129	update; installed elec fan tonight (1350 cfm), much better, but the outdoor temp is about 75 deg... while driving, temp was about 200 plus or minus, while idling it ran about 220 - 230.. currently has a 195 stat (thinking of trying a 180) and buying a 'good' guage.. i also just remember'd the radiator is for a stock GT with air.. i don't think it's enough....... checked ebay, i can get a new 27 1/2 x19 aluminum 2 core for $230.00. or a '4 month old rad with electric fan for $150.00 i think we almost have it sorted.. a bit more input please.. __________________ 91 LX 'work in progress' previous stangs; lightly modded 84GT 81 2.3 converted to 302 auto

06-01-2002, 08:09 PM	#19
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	My buddy and I built a 302 and dropped it into a 64 Ranchero. The engine was built more than yours, and we used a simple Pinto radiator and a Black magic electric fan. Never ran hot. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

06-05-2002, 08:12 AM	#20
jerrys84 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: minnesota Posts: 129	installed 180 stat, also installed a 14" pusher and a 16" puller fans, removed the AC.. outdoor temp, 60 degrees, temp runs 195 plus or minus at idle and at speed.. sound about right?? thanx for all the help and input.. __________________ 91 LX 'work in progress' previous stangs; lightly modded 84GT 81 2.3 converted to 302 auto

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