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Pitching the EFI!
Ok! Goodbye EFI http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/smile.gif
Now I need a new lower manifold, carb (duh) fuel pump, distributor...what else? ------------------ Elisha (Mustangbelle) 1994 GT: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, and pulleys. Sold the 1986 LX sedan :( http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306 AOL name: GT306Chick |
ugh.......
YOU TRAITOR!!!!! |
Well you will have to wire the ignition up, and it will take sometime to figure out how to do that. I am getting ready to do the same thing to mine. I am tired of every little thing causing me problems. My EFI is getting tossed too!
------------------ 89 LX Coupe 306, 10:1 compression, Holley Heads, Intake, and Cam package, 70 mm Throttle body and Mass Air, 30 lb injectors, 255 lph fuel pump, 1 5/8" full length headers, Flowmaster 2 1/2" American Thunder Cat back system, Centerforce dual friction clutch, 4.10 gears 50-175 hp Nitrous Works kit, 5" Auto Meter Shift Light |
you guys should go with injection you can control. not cheap like carburation though...
------------------ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged! |
msd dist., msd ignition, new fuel lines pump, tank pickup modification, throttle cable & bracket, intake, carb, various fuel system acc., filter, and you should be good. match the setup properly and you will make more hp. stay small with the carb and i would get a holley d.p. like a 600.
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Add an electric choke or a manual choke to it, other wise your car won't run for crap till it warms up, if you can even keep it running.
Yep, spend a few hundred bucks and you'll get an extra 2hp, lose 10lb/ft and drop 3mpg. If it's tuned properly. If it's not tuned properly, you'll lose 20hp, 30lb/ft, and 5mpg. My personal opinion, the only people who retrofit to carb are people who don't take the time to understand EFI. I've never understood the desire to retrofit, really. For the cost of converting you could add those GT40P heads you wanted. Now even the best carb tune is still 30hp lower, and probably 50lb/ft of torque out of the ballpark. If you're just mad at the Cartech and want an intake, you can get a used Cobra on Ebay for about $250. That'll save you a good $150 over the conversion. |
Um.
It's not that I don't understand EFI. I just thought it would be easier...no MAF changes etc etc, cleaner, and tuneable. I have been reconsidering my decision though, just because I already use a whole tank of gas to go from school to home, and I thought that was crappy, imagine carb UGH. ------------------ Elisha (Mustangbelle) 1994 GT: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, and pulleys. Sold the 1986 LX sedan :( http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306 AOL name: GT306Chick |
you must of got a bad hit or smoked some funny stuff if you think you lose power by changing to a carb. and the thing about fuel economy with a carb, you really wount lose any and in some cases may gain. i got 20 mpg on my carbed 90 302 although it was a mild motor (only went 12.40's) . but i guess all that money and work on a fuelie car is worth it to go 14's. i mean, why spend 500$ to go mid to high 12's in stock trim when you can spend 3000$
mustangbelle, do the swap, save money and if you have any problems or questions with it just ask me and ill do whatever i can to get you going fast and with good mpg. |
I just did the swap on my 92 lX, and everything is still fresh in my head. If you have any questions shoot me an email gofastlx@yahoo.com
Rob |
juiceman it's pretty obvious technology scares you. If you really think you can build a cheaper faster carb that will be streetable come back outta the late 70's, dude.
Here's a few combo's for ya. E303 cam $160 Cobra Intake $399 GT40P heads $400 Pro M 75mm $200 65mm T/B $190 1 1/2" unequals $120 hi flow H $150 2.5" catback $250 155lph $80 $1950 That combo should get her car into the 12's. I would be shocked if you couldn't tune 310hp out of it. E303 cam $160 TFS TW Heads $900 TFS Street Heat $395 24lb/hr $189 Pro M 77 $400 75mmm T/B $200 1 5/8" equals $150 Hiflow H $150 2.5" $250 190lph $100 $2894 That's good enough to put 400hp down on a 302. E303 $160 TFS Heads $900 Cobra Intake $399 65mm T/B $190 155lph $85 1 5/8" LT's $250 Hiflow H $130 2.5" $250 AFPR $80 $2444 That combo on S/D should rip off low 12's@115mph or so. I'm not seeing this $500 mid 12's pass, juiceman? Are you doing this on the stock heads and cam? No fricken way. Even your magical ancient carb needs some other mods to the engine to pull 12's. Course, maybe your the one that needs to lay off the smoke? What fuel pump? What heads? What intake? What carb? What exhaust? What cam? I'm doing a little number crunching here, but to put together even a 600cfm carb and intake combo will run over $400 just to convert. You think losing the EFI alone will give you 150hp? My car will run high 13's in it's current form. I get 19-21mpg in town, about 27-29mph hiway. That's with 2.73's. My engine is totally stock, except for a K&N filter, hi flow cats, and hi flow catback. As far as losing hp and torque with a carb, you're damn right you will, unless it's tuned perfect. On a race engine you could expect to pick up 20hp, but you'll lose low end, and you'll lose streetability. I wouldn't even try the fuel economy route dude. One malfunctioning electric choke, leaking vacuum line, or slightly improper tune will send her soaring into the low teens for city driving. I've owned 2 carbed 5.0's. Neither one of them got **** for fuel economy. 20mph was a sweet number to pull on the road. Now I get that running in rush hour 1/2 the time. |
On the street I'd stick with the EFI. From a roll the EFI cars jump way out on me, (from the digs its a different story) I make a ton more horsepower up high but I'm chasin by then. I'd rather have my combo with a Trick flow track heat manifold and the Western Motorsports/SDS Fuel injection system and have the power to pull at any speed.
Carbs are easier to tune but they are harder to tune with precision, unless you make it a part-time job it is pretty damn hard to keep it tuned just right for all conditions. ------------------ GT-40 heads (ported, polished, + milled), B303 cam, 1.7rr's, JE pistons, Offy intake, Carter AFB 625cfm carb, Flowtech 1 5/8" shortys, Flowtech X-pipe, MAC Flowpath exhaust, MAC pulleys, 373's, subframes, Eibachs+Tokicos, B+M ripper, FMS Clutch, Zoom Quadrant+cable, 17" CSA Ultra rims, 235/45ZR17 Yokohama AVS S4's, MSD 6A ignition+coil, FMS 9mm wires, Carbed, Naturally Aspirated, and Nasty! |
unit,you are very unknowledgable on carbs and racing for that matter. just because you dont know it or havent seen it doesnt mean it isnt done. why dont you read a few more mags and maybe youll learn what i forgot.
as for the injected cars jumpin out on th carbs off the line, you need to have some more tuning done. when done properly a carb will launch just as hard with no bog as a injected car. and as you noticed you run them down mid track, because you make more power than they do. yes, cars take time and need to be tuned perfect and well, it is my job so i know what it takes. unit, theres so much more for you to learn in motors and racing. i would be glad to teach you one day but i know you wount listen. numbers are nice to talk about but in real life it means nothing if you cant use them right. im no new world builder like you think. like i said, let me know if you find out who shafiroff is then talk to me. |
Yeah, you can make a carb run just as hard as an EFI car any day and it'll be just as streetable. Just find someone who knows how to tune a carb well and you're set. Carbs are cheaper setups too. Unit's smokin some crack if he thinks you can't. I've got a cam, carb, exhaust, intake, crappy pump, etc. and if I stopped screwing my car up it'd get 13s easy. Check out MM&FF a few months back. They put a carb and EFI head to head. Good article. Just make sure to get the right carb/intake combo for your setup or planned setup. It's pretty basic sh!t.
------------------ 1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s |
Juiceman, there is no way a carbed, single plane manifold car can make as much torque as a long runner injected intake at 2000 rpms! (why do you think carbed cars need more rear gear than fuelies) Nuff said. I think you should take the time to do some real research on fuel injection (with an open mind).
That Muscle Mustangs And Fast Fords article was an apples to Oranges comparison, they used a POS stock computer from an automatic equipped mustang vs. an optimized carb setup. If they had used an A9L and got a custom chip burned the results would have been much different, if it had a piggyback programmer, see ya! ------------------ GT-40 heads (ported, polished, + milled), B303 cam, 1.7rr's, JE pistons, Offy intake, Carter AFB 625cfm carb, Flowtech 1 5/8" shortys, Flowtech X-pipe, MAC Flowpath exhaust, MAC pulleys, 373's, subframes, Eibachs+Tokicos, B+M ripper, FMS Clutch, Zoom Quadrant+cable, 17" CSA Ultra rims, 235/45ZR17 Yokohama AVS S4's, MSD 6A ignition+coil, FMS 9mm wires, Carbed, Naturally Aspirated, and Nasty! |
First off you can make a carbed car run all over a EFI car,anyone who doesn't believe this is severely mistaken.You get a carbed car set-up/tuned right,they will respond quicker.Why? Because they don't have to wait for any signals/input from the good ol' computer.Just the time it takes for the driver to put his foot on the gas pedal.
Second off,you can have just as dependable of a vehicle using a carb. Third you don't lose horsepower just by switching to a carbed set-up. I had a carbed 85GT with 5-speed.All I did with the car was add Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers,H-pipe,high-flow mufflers.I gave a few EFI guys a run for their money on the street.Maybe they couldn't drive? I dunno and it doesn't matter.Either way you choose,you can make them BOTH run great and run hard. ------------------ http://home.dencity.com/Mustanguy/avatar.gif Paxton Blown 87GT ICQ#112698436 |
it is not me who doesnt have an open mind. i understand all the points being said here and their valid but not fully true. like it was said you would need to get a chip burned bigger this, bigger that etc and then a injected car will be just as fast. hey, a motor is a motor. no matter what you use you will go fast, but a carbed car can do it cheaper and easier. i dont have enough space to go through it all and i would love to . in all my years of racing i have never been taken off the line by an injected car. carbs will make more power than injected off the bat. this is just the way it is. its all good to look at one thing or the other but you need to put it all together to understand it. id really blow your mind if i told you i could make a stock motor with stock cam and heads go faster than you injected car with heads and cam. but i dont have the time for that. its not what you use, its what you know and how you use your knowledge. good luck with whatever you got and dont think im knocking injection, im not. its good for certain things and can make power but its expensive. if youre a guy on a budget and want to go fast then go with carb.
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I agree with juiceman if you want to go fast and stay on a budget, but if you want the most power and a budget is not a factor injection is the way to go. With the right injection system you can tune fuel curves, and timing at any rpm, and at any given time with a push of a button. You get more power through the whole RPM range not just peak HP. As far a "carbs being better out of the hole because you don't have to wait for signals from the sensors" Those signals happen faster then you can blink.
Also, please let me know how you can make a stock stang with a carb blow the doors off a injected car with heads and a cam. ------------------ 347 W/ A-trim 6#'s, Canfield heads, out of the box Systemax II intake, solid roller cam. 11.1 @123mph 93lx 5.0 daily driver |
Wow talk about responses!
I have decided to go the carb route on the 302, and if for any reason I'm not totally sastified with output/reliability, then I will put the EFI back on the 306. Thanks for everyone's help! ------------------ Elisha (Mustangbelle) 1994 GT: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, and pulleys. Sold the 1986 LX sedan :( http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306 AOL name: GT306Chick |
Okay, Juiceman, what am I doing wrong? I do not have a problem off the line, I have a problem pulling it from a roll at 2000 rpms.
I have an adjustible vacuum advance on my distributor, I am running the carter AFB carb with 101/095 jets and 070/047 rods and 5" vac. step up springs, I run 5.5psi fuel pressure, my total timing is 32 degrees at about 2800rpms and I've lightened the secondary butterflies by millling a 1/16" hole on each side, the car still doesn't come alive until 3500+ rpms. With a Holley 600 DP. it wouldn't come alive until 4000 rpms and when I got it to perform its best I still ended up with it way too rich until ~5000rpms, not to mention a best of 17 highway miles. The carter give excellent fuel economy and better throttle response but it nothing like an injected car. Spread some knowledge, what would you do differently? Peace. ------------------ GT-40 heads (ported, polished, + milled), B303 cam, 1.7rr's, JE pistons, Offy intake, Carter AFB 625cfm carb, Flowtech 1 5/8" shortys, Flowtech X-pipe, MAC Flowpath exhaust, MAC pulleys, 373's, subframes, Eibachs+Tokicos, B+M ripper, FMS Clutch, Zoom Quadrant+cable, 17" CSA Ultra rims, 235/45ZR17 Yokohama AVS S4's, MSD 6A ignition+coil, FMS 9mm wires, Carbed, Naturally Aspirated, and Nasty! |
Your setup is fine,,,it's the powerband of your cam that's holding you back until 3000 the majority of B303 users say the same thing..Power doesn't come on until 3k...
Rob |
Hmmm... I'm looking at my car the way it sits.
87GT K&N panel, BBK 2.5" hiflow cats, 2.5" catback. If it was in tune I could probably pull a 13.90@102 out of it with the 2.73's. If I slapped the right suspension setup and 4.10's or 4.55's on it, I'd be in the high 12's@104. This is with 145k miles on the block. Now that's all fine and dandy, but I don't want a racecar. I want a street car that I can have fun in the corners with, and get the best fuel economy with. Honestly dropping my gears to a 3.27 or 3.55 would probably do that in town, but it would hurt a little on the road. Why carbs are inferior. Like my discussion noted with juiceman the carb cars form fuel droplets (in the intake) which decrease the overall efficiency of the intake air/fuel mixture. Droplets don't burn for **** and you wind up richening the mixture (so you don't burn lean) and blowing raw fuel out the exhaust. The only benefit to the raw fuel is cooling in the cylinder. This is where you lose fuel economy too by the way. Where you lose torque is the shorter runner intake. Due to opening intake valves single plane manifold cars get beaten down in a bad way. The disturbance at low rpms is significant enough to hamper air fuel mixture flow into the cylinder. They make more power up top because there is less restriction. Dual plane manifolds make better on the low end than single plane manifolds because they allow some extra distance from the intake valve which makes for smoother airflow at lower rpms; however, that limits the maximum potential of the manifold for high rpm usage by restrictions in the direct airpath into the engine. Due to the inability to tune a car to perfection (without running lean) you are going to lose all out power. You just can't get it to atomize perfect, which is also why if you look at a dyno sheet EFI vs carb straight up, the carb dyno will be wavy, where EFI will be smooth as a baby's bottom. EFI manifolds feature long straight runners that optimize low end and midrange power. They are very resistant to turbulence created by the valves which enables them to smoothly flow air into the cylinders even at low rpms. Throttle response is much slower than carb due to the distance of the T/B from the heads. It has absolutely nothing to do with the computer, which is just as fast as the carbs manual throttle linkage in measureable input anyway. Under high rpms the manifolds begin to show more weakness, mostly because of the restriction the upper manifold creates in efficiently flowing air into the lower. Mustangbelle306 has experianced first hand what happens when you slap an unrestrictive plenum onto the EFI setup. You lose lot's of low end, and you gain on the top end. Basically the large opening hiflowing Cartech intake plenum makes the EFI lower into the equivelent of a single plane carb manifold. Onto the actual performance of the venturi operated low pressure atomization of fuel with the carb to the forced atomization of the fuel injected car. EFI is superior to carbs when it comes to the perfect atomization in terms of airfuel ratio due to it's controlled environment. The carb, while good at initially atomizing the fuel, as was noted by juiceman himself, the intake manifolds tend to cause droplets to form with the fuel vapor forms on the ridges and imperfections. Since EFI injects the fuel just above the intake port on the head, this effect is minimized allowing for more accurate air/fuel ratio tuning. This is where you pick up your fuel economy and pass emissions folks. How many times have you heard all the emissions **** hampers EFI? BS all over the place. The airpump has been around since the 1960's, my Uncle's 1969 Mach 1 428CJ has one. The O2 sensors input along will the rest of the input from emissions related components get ignored during wide open throttle acceleration on SEFI cars. Instead the computer defaults to a more aggressive performance database. That's what's called "Open Loop". The EFI cars also remain in open loop until the vehicle warms up. Ever wonder just how rich open loop is??? It's the equivelent of a sticking electric choke on a carb. Welcome to Mileage Reductionville. Ford intentionally made open loop run rich, especially on SD cars so that Joe Schmoe wouldn't be bringing his car back with a burned piston 35,999 miles after purchase. They made it run on the safe side of things. One of the major problems with the 5.0 Cobra computer is it's lack of speed switching to open loop running. Under WOT acceleration the Cobra computer remains in "closed loop" for a full 7 seconds before going into the performance oriented *laughs* (not really since the Cobra's computer takes out a shitload of timing and has sick *** fuel and timing curves) open loop cycle. As far as reliablility. Any one saying a carb is as reliable as EFI needs to go back to the padded room. Why in the hell do you think people love EFI over carbs? Cause the ******* things start in the winter without pumping the gas pedal, even if you don't know how to tune them. For proper operation carbs MUST be tuned. Not everybody takes a course on how to properly tune carbs before they get their cars! I've personally seen EFI cars with 100,000mi on them and stock <insert explicative describing the people who do this> spark plugs!!! Vacuum leaks, cracked vacuum lines, necessary tuning, burned out electric chokes, inaccurate manual chokes, and overall irritability hurt carbed cars in reliability. When an EFI car has a problem, it usually ignores or compenstates for the lack of input data. Unit 5302 on the conclusion. EFI car's that use the long runner type intake plenum suffer from intake restriction on the top, and single plane style intake lowers. Increasing the upper hurts low end, increasing the lower doesn't help top end (much). The properly tuned and matched upper/lower combo throw's a lot of that problem out the window, though. Carbs suffer from lack of low end torque, period. They can suffer from lack of upper end performance, but not to the significance of an EFI car with the plenum style intake. Due to the lack of accuracy in the fuel metering (no amount of tuning can perfect it), carbs lack optimal average hp and trade it for maximum peak hp. They do not dyno smoothly like the proper functioning EFI car will, and they lose average hp/torque performance because of it. As far as low end, the EFI has no near rivals, even the dual plane manifolds. True, you can eliminate bog with tuning, but even the best tune cannot compensate for the lack of low end grunt. The car won't BOG, it just lacks low end, as rpms increase the power output should be smooth with no lag time in power production. Obviously in a drag scenerio, you shouldn't ever be running at 2000 or 3000 rpms (you should have the tires and suspension to allow for only peak power running), which throws the carb's lack of low end out the window. On the street from a stop or slow roll EFI will exceed the carbs performance off the line considerably. The way EFI is tuned increases drivability significantly, it's smooth, predictable, and it's got excellent low end/mid range power production. EFI when tuned WILL beat a carbed car hands down, (it requires a completely new computer calibration.) It WILL be a better street performer. It WILL provide significantly better fuel economy, especially due to the low end power's ability to run well with taller rear gears. It WILL be more reliable for the average person. It WON'T cost much more than a carb to get good street performance out of. Carb when tuned WILL outpower an EFI car for absolute peak hp production. It WON'T be as streetable. It WON'T equal the economy of the EFI car, and it WON'T be as reliable. As far as getting a carbed car to outperform the same EFI car with heads and a cam, you're outta your frickin mind. You obviously know less about how EFI works than I do about your carb. Or are you saying you keep a bag of Juiceman's Magic Carb Powder in your shop. "Just sprinkle a little bit on the top of your carb and pick up 150hp!!!" If you do, that's great, I'm betting there are a few people who keep a bag of Magic EFI Whoop A$$ on their shelves. "Just get a little into your schrader valve and pick up 150hp!!!" |
well unit, i dont have the time to debate this with you.like i said, some of your points are correct but for the most part you must live in the world of perfect. how much do houses cost out there cause im sure we would all love to be there. you think injected cars compensate when theres a problem? youre just plain dumb with that statement. and you say i know nothing about injection. its a computer stupid. you do something as stupid as put in bigger injectors and you got problems. maybe you should look around and see all the problems there are with injected cars. a carb will always start. theres nothing there to mess up. i guess you know something about building race cars that the rest of the world doesnt. i dont know how we get those cars in the 6's with carbs. must be my damn magic carb powder again. and on low end grunt, carbs can do it. my stupid stang makes plenty of power down low. i leave like an animal and its an automatic.
look, the only good point you have is the atomization theory. and even your version of that is half wrong. i already agreed that if you got loads of money then injection is good, so why debate any further. rather let me help those in need since you obviously dont want knowledge. now, red82gt , i would need to know more about your setup like what intake you use and other specifics but first like it was said the cam will want to make power at 3000. but i think you can work past that. your timing at full advance should be 38 to start. this will help you out alot. also, i run the fuel at 7 psi although it doesnt make a difference in power it will matter when you start to launch the car hard. i see now that you have the offy 360 intake, theyre ok ,im not a big fan of them. i would go back to the holley carb. the 600 dp is good for you and will get you more power. when tuning that use 68/76 to start on the jets. also, make sure you have good alignment between the intake and head ports. this is important. next i would have used full length headers to get more torque. your setup isnt bad but you made a high rpm setup and skimped on things. chances are you live out west so i can come and tune that thing. but i would start with the small stuff first like timing, 600 holley carb, tune etc. alot of people have bad times with carbs and give up, but you need to understand how they work and how to compensate. injection does the work for you, now you must do the work. if you are willing to do it i will help you through the process as best i can. i run into alot of guys like unit, and it dissapoints me how little the world knows i had the baddest car in 3 towns and never lost and the best was when i ran 2 cars, one was a white notch with juice which i toasted (n/a) and that cobra with his paxton. all i can say is that maybe one day ill run into you unit, but have the title signed and the account # to your bank. anyone with a carbed stang on the east coast who has problems i am willing to go help. ill just let my work talk for me. |
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I'm sure your car runs hard, I'm being serious. You should beat me, your modded, I've got jack for mods. I don't need them/want them at this moment. I have other places to spend my money. It's not that you can't build a seriously fast carb car, I'm not saying that at all. (Course, Magic Carb Powder is good stuff http://www.mustangworks.com/msgboard/biggrin.gif j/k.) That's been going on for 50 years. I'm just saying that IMHO based on what I have just stated in the theory of operation EFI is the better setup. It sounds to me like you have as much interest in the aspects of EFI as I do about carbs. EFI computers will compensate for some missing or seemingly corrupted data. Just like a carb, EFI isn't foolproof. You've still gotta match the setup, and tune it when it's modded. Some things cost more money to tune (most everything on EFI), but there are a lot of good points to it, and if you drive it hard, match the combo, and tune your EFI (where needed), you can pull some damn impressive times. Anyway, I'm glad you can help the members of this board out with their carb problems. Hopefully you can get those guys running like crazy. Later, Unit 5302 oh btw, houses are as expensive as **** here right now. In the twin cities metro don't be looking for a 3bdr for under $250,000!!! What the hell? When did we become CA? |
Ya know what???? i stopped reading after about the third post.
I run 13.20's on an all stock motor...12.50's on a 75 shot. I like fuel injection...my dry kit wouldn't work w/out it. If you like carbs..go for it... Everyone is flaming each other..and if you spent more time time tuning your stang, then ragging on each other..you would be smoking those LS1's..... In 3 weeks i will rip off some low 11sec passes...all for about 8 grand including my car....stangs rule...stop fighting. ------------------ 4.10's,long tubes & 75 shot...Goes 12.50's Check it out at http://www.burnouts.webprovider.com 11's coming soon!!!! Heads,intake and cam are all here |
hey unit.....
i live in fresno CA. You can buy a 2500 sq. ft 5 BR house for about $160,000 Just so you know.....bob ------------------ 4.10's,long tubes & 75 shot...Goes 12.50's Check it out at http://www.burnouts.webprovider.com 11's coming soon!!!! Heads,intake and cam are all here |
Hmmm... sounds like you know absolutely jack about EFI. I've seen a SD car run fine after a 24lb injector swap (with idle surge.)
looks like you just proved my point. thanks. next here's this 62 year old guy out in the garage tuning a 3.3L inline 6 1 barrel!!! He managed to get the damn thing to run like nobody's business though. Pump it once, turn the key and it starts and run's like EFI. guess you proved my point there too. wow. next- How long does your carb stay between 2000-3500rpms? its driven all day every day. its my every day car. Hmmm... running my stock car with 2.73's versus a modded carb car? if you consider gears, carb, intake and headers modded then you shouldnt be giving advice on performance. It sounds to me like you have as much interest in the aspects of EFI as I do about carbs. not only do i have interest but knowlege also. hey, i have already aggreed with you on the injection thing but when you look at the money to hp ratio the carb will win. so if someone turns to me and says " i have no money and this damn injection isnt cutting it, what can i do?" i say go carb. unfortunately most people dont have someone like your father or me around to tune the carb right but if you do, then take advantage of it. otherwise buy a laptop and tuning software and tune that injection. hell, i can do great things with an epoc system and i actually know what all that stuff is. but who has the money for that? |
i don't know what it is???
but i'm a white trash bastard.... And i like to play w/ myself. So like i said b4...stop fighting. Go smoke a vette or something. ------------------ 4.10's,long tubes & 75 shot...Goes 12.50's Check it out at http://www.burnouts.webprovider.com 11's coming soon!!!! Heads,intake and cam are all here |
Christ quit it already...I just wanted to know which parts I needed. This is completely asanine.
------------------ Elisha (Mustangbelle) 1994 GT: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, and pulleys. Sold the 1986 LX sedan :( http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306 AOL name: GT306Chick |
whatever your personal preference is you should be able to express it without getting personal. I don't see insults helping anyone. I've beaten both setups, and been beaten by both. alot of the time it come down to what area you want to excel in. No one application is superior ALL the time!!!
------------------ 88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged! |
And the saga continues on!
All I gotta say is I have been ther, done that in regards to the whole carb thing. Now, I was never an expert on tuning a carb so i can't come in here and debate with these guys, but I can say this... After tearing my engine's top end completely apart, doing some major head work, and swapping everything on the car with new parts I turned the key for the first time with the coil wire on and it fired right up and purred like a kitten. I gotta vote for EFI. I knew absolutely nothing about EFI cars (do a search for AxemanZZ) when I came here and I redone everything on my car and put it back together and it runs great. I wouldn't have had as easy of a time as I did with a carb. ------------------ Too much to list. Best ET on the car so far with stock 2.73 gears - 13.73@102mph Indiana Stangers Association Buy your parts here ICQ# 42269241 |
I'd have to say nobody in this thread was flaming. Heated discussion with a little fun poking at each other.
God forbid a debate! |
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