Pitching the EFI!

[Mustangbelle306]

Ok! Goodbye EFI

Now I need a new lower manifold, carb (duh) fuel pump, distributor...what else?

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Elisha (Mustangbelle)
1994 GT: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, and pulleys.
Sold the 1986 LX sedan
http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306
AOL name: GT306Chick

[spinemup]

ugh.......

YOU TRAITOR!!!!!

[Mean50]

Well you will have to wire the ignition up, and it will take sometime to figure out how to do that. I am getting ready to do the same thing to mine. I am tired of every little thing causing me problems. My EFI is getting tossed too!

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89 LX Coupe
306, 10:1 compression, Holley Heads, Intake, and Cam package, 70 mm Throttle body and Mass Air, 30 lb injectors, 255 lph fuel pump, 1 5/8" full length headers, Flowmaster 2 1/2" American Thunder Cat back system, Centerforce dual friction clutch, 4.10 gears
50-175 hp Nitrous Works kit, 5" Auto Meter Shift Light

[DirtKing]

you guys should go with injection you can control. not cheap like carburation though...

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88LX notch, Speedpro EFI Procharged!

[juiceman]

msd dist., msd ignition, new fuel lines pump, tank pickup modification, throttle cable & bracket, intake, carb, various fuel system acc., filter, and you should be good. match the setup properly and you will make more hp. stay small with the carb and i would get a holley d.p. like a 600.

[Unit 5302]

Add an electric choke or a manual choke to it, other wise your car won't run for crap till it warms up, if you can even keep it running.

Yep, spend a few hundred bucks and you'll get an extra 2hp, lose 10lb/ft and drop 3mpg. If it's tuned properly.

If it's not tuned properly, you'll lose 20hp, 30lb/ft, and 5mpg.

My personal opinion, the only people who retrofit to carb are people who don't take the time to understand EFI.

I've never understood the desire to retrofit, really. For the cost of converting you could add those GT40P heads you wanted. Now even the best carb tune is still 30hp lower, and probably 50lb/ft of torque out of the ballpark. If you're just mad at the Cartech and want an intake, you can get a used Cobra on Ebay for about $250. That'll save you a good $150 over the conversion.

[Mustangbelle306]

Um.

It's not that I don't understand EFI. I just thought it would be easier...no MAF changes etc etc, cleaner, and tuneable. I have been reconsidering my decision though, just because I already use a whole tank of gas to go from school to home, and I thought that was crappy, imagine carb UGH.

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Elisha (Mustangbelle)
1994 GT: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, and pulleys.
Sold the 1986 LX sedan
http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306
AOL name: GT306Chick

[juiceman]

you must of got a bad hit or smoked some funny stuff if you think you lose power by changing to a carb. and the thing about fuel economy with a carb, you really wount lose any and in some cases may gain. i got 20 mpg on my carbed 90 302 although it was a mild motor (only went 12.40's) . but i guess all that money and work on a fuelie car is worth it to go 14's. i mean, why spend 500$ to go mid to high 12's in stock trim when you can spend 3000$
mustangbelle, do the swap, save money and if you have any problems or questions with it just ask me and ill do whatever i can to get you going fast and with good mpg.

[gofastlx]

I just did the swap on my 92 lX, and everything is still fresh in my head. If you have any questions shoot me an email gofastlx@yahoo.com

Rob

[Unit 5302]

juiceman it's pretty obvious technology scares you. If you really think you can build a cheaper faster carb that will be streetable come back outta the late 70's, dude.

Here's a few combo's for ya.

E303 cam $160
Cobra Intake $399
GT40P heads $400
Pro M 75mm $200
65mm T/B $190
1 1/2" unequals $120
hi flow H $150
2.5" catback $250
155lph $80

$1950 That combo should get her car into the 12's. I would be shocked if you couldn't tune 310hp out of it.

E303 cam $160
TFS TW Heads $900
TFS Street Heat $395
24lb/hr $189
Pro M 77 $400
75mmm T/B $200
1 5/8" equals $150
Hiflow H $150
2.5" $250
190lph $100

$2894 That's good enough to put 400hp down on a 302.

E303 $160
TFS Heads $900
Cobra Intake $399
65mm T/B $190
155lph $85
1 5/8" LT's $250
Hiflow H $130
2.5" $250
AFPR $80

$2444 That combo on S/D should rip off low 12's@115mph or so.

I'm not seeing this $500 mid 12's pass, juiceman? Are you doing this on the stock heads and cam? No fricken way. Even your magical ancient carb needs some other mods to the engine to pull 12's. Course, maybe your the one that needs to lay off the smoke?

What fuel pump? What heads? What intake? What carb? What exhaust? What cam? I'm doing a little number crunching here, but to put together even a 600cfm carb and intake combo will run over $400 just to convert. You think losing the EFI alone will give you 150hp?

My car will run high 13's in it's current form. I get 19-21mpg in town, about 27-29mph hiway. That's with 2.73's. My engine is totally stock, except for a K&N filter, hi flow cats, and hi flow catback.

As far as losing hp and torque with a carb, you're damn right you will, unless it's tuned perfect. On a race engine you could expect to pick up 20hp, but you'll lose low end, and you'll lose streetability. I wouldn't even try the fuel economy route dude. One malfunctioning electric choke, leaking vacuum line, or slightly improper tune will send her soaring into the low teens for city driving.

I've owned 2 carbed 5.0's. Neither one of them got **** for fuel economy. 20mph was a sweet number to pull on the road. Now I get that running in rush hour 1/2 the time.

[red82gt]

On the street I'd stick with the EFI. From a roll the EFI cars jump way out on me, (from the digs its a different story) I make a ton more horsepower up high but I'm chasin by then. I'd rather have my combo with a Trick flow track heat manifold and the Western Motorsports/SDS Fuel injection system and have the power to pull at any speed.

Carbs are easier to tune but they are harder to tune with precision, unless you make it a part-time job it is pretty damn hard to keep it tuned just right for all conditions.

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GT-40 heads (ported, polished, + milled), B303 cam, 1.7rr's, JE pistons, Offy intake, Carter AFB 625cfm carb, Flowtech 1 5/8" shortys, Flowtech X-pipe, MAC Flowpath exhaust, MAC pulleys, 373's, subframes, Eibachs+Tokicos, B+M ripper, FMS Clutch, Zoom Quadrant+cable, 17" CSA Ultra rims, 235/45ZR17 Yokohama AVS S4's, MSD 6A ignition+coil, FMS 9mm wires, Carbed, Naturally Aspirated, and Nasty!

[juiceman]

unit,you are very unknowledgable on carbs and racing for that matter. just because you dont know it or havent seen it doesnt mean it isnt done. why dont you read a few more mags and maybe youll learn what i forgot.
as for the injected cars jumpin out on th carbs off the line, you need to have some more tuning done. when done properly a carb will launch just as hard with no bog as a injected car. and as you noticed you run them down mid track, because you make more power than they do. yes, cars take time and need to be tuned perfect and well, it is my job so i know what it takes. unit, theres so much more for you to learn in motors and racing. i would be glad to teach you one day but i know you wount listen. numbers are nice to talk about but in real life it means nothing if you cant use them right. im no new world builder like you think. like i said, let me know if you find out who shafiroff is then talk to me.

[84_GT350]

Yeah, you can make a carb run just as hard as an EFI car any day and it'll be just as streetable. Just find someone who knows how to tune a carb well and you're set. Carbs are cheaper setups too. Unit's smokin some crack if he thinks you can't. I've got a cam, carb, exhaust, intake, crappy pump, etc. and if I stopped screwing my car up it'd get 13s easy. Check out MM&FF a few months back. They put a carb and EFI head to head. Good article. Just make sure to get the right carb/intake combo for your setup or planned setup. It's pretty basic sh!t.

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1984 1/2 GT350 (#842 Hatchback w/ T-tops), 302HO, Comp cams Xtreme Energy cam, Carter 625cfm carb, Weiand Stealth intake, MSD distributor, MSD coil, FMS 9mm wires, 1 5/8" MAC unequal shorties, 2 1/2" MAC Prochamber H-pipe, Flowmaster 2 chambers, KYBs, 16"x8" 4 lug Cobra Rs, Falken 245/45ZR16s

[red82gt]

Juiceman, there is no way a carbed, single plane manifold car can make as much torque as a long runner injected intake at 2000 rpms! (why do you think carbed cars need more rear gear than fuelies) Nuff said. I think you should take the time to do some real research on fuel injection (with an open mind).

That Muscle Mustangs And Fast Fords article was an apples to Oranges comparison, they used a POS stock computer from an automatic equipped mustang vs. an optimized carb setup. If they had used an A9L and got a custom chip burned the results would have been much different, if it had a piggyback programmer, see ya!

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GT-40 heads (ported, polished, + milled), B303 cam, 1.7rr's, JE pistons, Offy intake, Carter AFB 625cfm carb, Flowtech 1 5/8" shortys, Flowtech X-pipe, MAC Flowpath exhaust, MAC pulleys, 373's, subframes, Eibachs+Tokicos, B+M ripper, FMS Clutch, Zoom Quadrant+cable, 17" CSA Ultra rims, 235/45ZR17 Yokohama AVS S4's, MSD 6A ignition+coil, FMS 9mm wires, Carbed, Naturally Aspirated, and Nasty!

First off you can make a carbed car run all over a EFI car,anyone who doesn't believe this is severely mistaken.You get a carbed car set-up/tuned right,they will respond quicker.Why? Because they don't have to wait for any signals/input from the good ol' computer.Just the time it takes for the driver to put his foot on the gas pedal.

Second off,you can have just as dependable of a vehicle using a carb.

Third you don't lose horsepower just by switching to a carbed set-up.

I had a carbed 85GT with 5-speed.All I did with the car was add Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers,H-pipe,high-flow mufflers.I gave a few EFI guys a run for their money on the street.Maybe they couldn't drive? I dunno and it doesn't matter.Either way you choose,you can make them BOTH run great and run hard.

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Paxton Blown 87GT
ICQ#112698436

[juiceman]

it is not me who doesnt have an open mind. i understand all the points being said here and their valid but not fully true. like it was said you would need to get a chip burned bigger this, bigger that etc and then a injected car will be just as fast. hey, a motor is a motor. no matter what you use you will go fast, but a carbed car can do it cheaper and easier. i dont have enough space to go through it all and i would love to . in all my years of racing i have never been taken off the line by an injected car. carbs will make more power than injected off the bat. this is just the way it is. its all good to look at one thing or the other but you need to put it all together to understand it. id really blow your mind if i told you i could make a stock motor with stock cam and heads go faster than you injected car with heads and cam. but i dont have the time for that. its not what you use, its what you know and how you use your knowledge. good luck with whatever you got and dont think im knocking injection, im not. its good for certain things and can make power but its expensive. if youre a guy on a budget and want to go fast then go with carb.

[WADS56]

I agree with juiceman if you want to go fast and stay on a budget, but if you want the most power and a budget is not a factor injection is the way to go. With the right injection system you can tune fuel curves, and timing at any rpm, and at any given time with a push of a button. You get more power through the whole RPM range not just peak HP. As far a "carbs being better out of the hole because you don't have to wait for signals from the sensors" Those signals happen faster then you can blink.

Also, please let me know how you can make a stock stang with a carb blow the doors off a injected car with heads and a cam.

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347 W/ A-trim 6#'s, Canfield heads, out of the box Systemax II intake, solid roller cam. 11.1 @123mph

93lx 5.0 daily driver

[Mustangbelle306]

Wow talk about responses!

I have decided to go the carb route on the 302, and if for any reason I'm not totally sastified with output/reliability, then I will put the EFI back on the 306. Thanks for everyone's help!

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Elisha (Mustangbelle)
1994 GT: Cartech intake,4.10s, full exhaust, and pulleys.
Sold the 1986 LX sedan
http://www.geocities.com/mustangbelle_306
AOL name: GT306Chick

[red82gt]

Okay, Juiceman, what am I doing wrong? I do not have a problem off the line, I have a problem pulling it from a roll at 2000 rpms.
I have an adjustible vacuum advance on my distributor,
I am running the carter AFB carb with 101/095 jets
and 070/047 rods
and 5" vac. step up springs,
I run 5.5psi fuel pressure,
my total timing is 32 degrees at about 2800rpms and
I've lightened the secondary butterflies by millling a 1/16" hole on each side,
the car still doesn't come alive until 3500+ rpms. With a Holley 600 DP. it wouldn't come alive until 4000 rpms and when I got it to perform its best I still ended up with it way too rich until ~5000rpms, not to mention a best of 17 highway miles. The carter give excellent fuel economy and better throttle response but it nothing like an injected car. Spread some knowledge, what would you do differently? Peace.

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GT-40 heads (ported, polished, + milled), B303 cam, 1.7rr's, JE pistons, Offy intake, Carter AFB 625cfm carb, Flowtech 1 5/8" shortys, Flowtech X-pipe, MAC Flowpath exhaust, MAC pulleys, 373's, subframes, Eibachs+Tokicos, B+M ripper, FMS Clutch, Zoom Quadrant+cable, 17" CSA Ultra rims, 235/45ZR17 Yokohama AVS S4's, MSD 6A ignition+coil, FMS 9mm wires, Carbed, Naturally Aspirated, and Nasty!

[gofastlx]

Your setup is fine,,,it's the powerband of your cam that's holding you back until 3000 the majority of B303 users say the same thing..Power doesn't come on until 3k...

Rob