650HP stock block
 

I wondered how long it was going to live, and it took me through most of the season going 10's before finally doing what the stock block @ 650HP does best... SPLIT right down the middle. I'll post some pics later... R.I.P. :)

Same thing happend to my friends. He was running 10.0's at 133 and it finally went after about 2 months of that. Got done running it and the oil pressure was very low. He drove it home and took it apart the day after. It was a terrible sight. Split right down the middle and the cam bearings were half way out. OUCH !!!!!

650 HP is hard on a stock block any way you look at it but i do think nitrous or boost or high energy fuels like nitro methane make it much more likely to granade a block at a given HP. What do you guys think ?
Still broke is broke reguardless of what caused it, and it takes a big bite out of the old wallet huh Ultraflo :( Sorry to hear it let go on you.
What i'd really like to know while your down and have some time is about those 1.34 60' times !! Care to share some or all of your set up :D That thing has to be biting so good its tearing out chunks of track :eek:

A fellow over here said his was full of spider webs. What are you going to replace it with?

What were you running on the bottom end? Did you use the splayed 4 bolt main caps, did you run a crank scrapper and windage tray, did you run a girdle on the main caps?

Most of the difficulty with the windsor block is the lack of material around the main bearing webs. Most of us machine the blocks for the splayed 4 bolt main caps, and then use a scrapper, windage tray, and a girdle.

If you don't scrape the oil off the crank, it will "rope" around the crank and flex it enough to cause the cracking you have described. So just bolting up a windage tray and a main cap girdle can still lead to the problem you described.

A precut crank scraper runs about 14.00 from Mustangs Plus. You will need to modify it for exact clearance for your rod and stroke combination.

You may want to go toward a Mexican 302 block, or the Ford Racing Block with higher nickle content and the 4 bolt mains. You still need the scraper and the windage tray and the girdle. YOU NEED ALL 4 of these improvements.

Hope this helps.

By the way, we had to go with a dry sump oil system on the hi rev clevelands and 302 boss engines to prevent those blocks from cracking in half. The main bearing journals were just too weak. The flex in the crank would kill the webs and the engines would detonate. We did this on a Pantera running 185 mph at Bonneville. OUCH.

Next year we went with the dry sump system and had no problems except with the rain. That twin turbo charged 377 Cleveland ran over 200 mph. One pass hit a world record of 214 mph! With the wet oil system we could not exceed 197 mph. This goes to show you just how restriction the oil causes in a racing environment.

a few pictures...
 

http://members.mustangworks.com/ultr...ed_block02.jpg
...OUCH! :eek:
http://members.mustangworks.com/ultr...ds_pistons.jpg
...no damage to the rods or pistons :)
http://members.mustangworks.com/ultr...flow_crank.jpg
...or the crank :)
http://members.mustangworks.com/ultr...s/svo_r302.jpg
...rotating assembly will find it's way into a new home via SVO R302 block :cool:

http://members.mustangworks.com/ultr...cked_block.jpg

...I encountered the same scenario (low oil pressure and then the dislodged cam bearings), had to do some surgery to get the cam out without any harm.

I went from mid/low 1.4's with Goodyear 28x10 Eagles, to 1.3's with a tire swap alone... M/T ET Drag 28x10.5's bite so much better than the Eagles it's unbelievable, no kidding!

..."tearing chunks out of the track," LOL, when I did the wheelstand my bellhousing took a chunk out of the track when it came back down :eek: ...making my way off the track I was wondering how much damage I did to the underside of my car, and to my amazement, it wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm sure bouncing my motor off the pavement didn't help in keeping it together any longer...

Originally posted by jim_howard_pdx
What were you running on the bottom end? Did you use the splayed 4 bolt main caps, did you run a crank scrapper and windage tray, did you run a girdle on the main caps?

Jim, I used an SVO/DSS girdle w/ ARP main studs, stock 2-bolt caps, crank scraper via Moroso pan, no windage tray...

You may want to go toward a Mexican 302 block, or the Ford Racing Block with higher nickle content and the 4 bolt mains. You still need the scraper and the windage tray and the girdle. YOU NEED ALL 4 of these improvements.

...I got the block covered, and I plan on using a windage tray. I was under the impression that a girdle was not necessary on the R302 block. :confused:

With the wet oil system we could not exceed 197 mph. This goes to show you just how restriction the oil causes in a racing environment.

I'm going to stay with the wet sump oiling system into the low 9's, and then I'll figure a dry sump system into the equation for the next mill... should I ever get there ;) Thanks for all of the info...

Interesting, because the way it split through the bolt holes end to end, one side, it does look like some kind of big sudden shock load ???

...there is a hair-line crack down the center of the block in the lifter valley, which allowed the cam bearings to fall out of their respective locations... I didn't get any good pictures of the top of the block, the crack was difficult to see on the computer screen... might try again tomorrow. I have my hands full getting all of the small stuff taken care of. It should all start falling together in a few months.

You must run the scrapper AND I SCRAPE BOTH SIDES!!! You must run a windage tray. You must run the girdle. That block you are using should be good into the 7's.

I suspect that the NOS is the cause of the block damage.

You might want to change cranks just to be safe. I would ask a couple of Ford Motorsport dealers what they use in the 8 second brackets. Expect to pay 1,000 to 1,200 for the critter but it will resist the wrap up that causes this kind of damage.

If the problem is with the nitrous then here goes my favorite fix.
I hate giving up all my secrets. SO KEEP THIS TO YOURSELF.

When you run NOS it is especially effective to run a water injection system. I use a 5 gallon container, marked water in the trunk. It is plumbed with 3/8 inch lines and fed with a fuel injector type fuel pump. I am after 50 ppsi. I run the water at a 70/30 blend with pure isoprophyl alcohol. Iso is 132 octane.

I run this into two brass plant fogger nozzles that I mount just below the K&N filters. When the water flows, it gives off what looks like FOG when they spray. The pump delivers a set volume when the NOS hits. I use up about 2 1/2 quarts per quarter mile. My pipes are clean, my heads are clean, my exhaust temperature drops 145 degrees, my combustion temperature drops 278 degrees, and detonation is a thing of the past. By the way, the water allows me to run 13.5 to 1 compression with the NOS but I COAT THE PISTON TOPS AND THE COMBUSTION CHAMBER to get away with that. This is risky business with NOS going above 11.5 to 1.

I think you are detonating but it may be oil starvation. There are some trick accumulators out that will store up to two quarts of oil. I use these on off shore race engines and about any off road racing engine. It is especially good for turbo cars cause when the pressure goes to zero, the oil flows from the accumulator back to the main oil gallery. If you were oil starved I would expect you to have a burned engine. Lots of blue on the rod caps. Lots of weird wear on the bearing surface and rod journals.

I do not think that your wheel stands caused the crack. However, I do recommend that you NEVER LIFT during your launch. If you take your foot out of the gas because the front keeps rising, you can end up cracking a block. I have seen that on the Chevy small blocks.

ALL 9 second cars are going to pull the tires off the track. If it doesn't happen you are in trouble. Something is broken or wrong. If you keep your foot in the throttle you will come down soft and without any control issues.

My NOS systems are always PROGRESSIVE. I run about 200 hp on the first circuit and 375 hp on the second. That means two NOS tanks, two blankets, and lots of extra lines and hoses. We pulled 1100 HP and ran a 7.23 with a merlin block/heads/intake/ and single dominator carb. This is faster than the top fuel dragster times in the early 70's and they were running 396 or 426 Hemis with big blowers and fuel injection. Man how things have changed.

Originally posted by jim_howard_pdx
You must run the scrapper AND I SCRAPE BOTH SIDES!!! You must run a windage tray. You must run the girdle. That block you are using should be good into the 7's.

I only plan on running a windage tray... the block alone is rated at 1200HP from Ford, and I only plan on making 750-850 which is not even close to the limit ;)

I suspect that the NOS is the cause of the block damage.

I'm sure it didn't help any, lol :D

You might want to change cranks just to be safe. I would ask a couple of Ford Motorsport dealers what they use in the 8 second brackets. Expect to pay 1,000 to 1,200 for the critter but it will resist the wrap up that causes this kind of damage.

The crank is a Trick Flow forged, nitrided unit with radiused journals that is rated to handle 1000HP and 10,000 rpm, again, I shouldn't have to worry about the crank ;)


If the problem is with the nitrous then here goes my favorite fix.
I hate giving up all my secrets. SO KEEP THIS TO YOURSELF.

LOL, I promise :p

ALL 9 second cars are going to pull the tires off the track. If it doesn't happen you are in trouble. Something is broken or wrong. If you keep your foot in the throttle you will come down soft and without any control issues.

I was yankin' the front wheels running high 11's... :confused: ...it's the wheelstands that really get my attention, nearly dragging the bumper is not a good launch! I'd like to dial the suspension in the lift the front tires about a foot off the ground while still achieving respectable 60ft. times

My NOS systems are always PROGRESSIVE. I run about 200 hp on the first circuit and 375 hp on the second. That means two NOS tanks, two blankets, and lots of extra lines and hoses.

I've run a single stage, single nozzle system all year and will be looking into running a second stage via NX EFI plate system.... and I will most certainly be running two separate nitrous/fuel systems ;) Yes, sir!

Thanks for the insight... I appreciate it! :)

Sorry to hear of your troubles, I know how that goes man. What kind of oil are you running?

Your wheelstands are insane! With my 89'GT running at 9.78 (letting off at the end) I would lift maybe 1 foot or so max. The car would carry forward real well too.

Hope you get it back together soon. Just be thankful you didn't grenade the whole thing.

only way you can get your front tires off the ground kevin is to put a jack under them. :D

Kevin, thanks, I'd been running Valvoline VR-1 20w50, with a shot of Pro Long... got a good recommendation for me, what do you prefer?

Royal Purple keeps coming up when I talk to various people, that must be some good oral...

As for the wheelies... the first pass I made on the new M/T's (was running Eagles for most of the year) was my best of the year as far as ET. The second pass I figured I'd come out a little harder to see what'd happen :eek: ...next thing I know all I can see is the hood/cowling! Finished the pass, loaded up and went home to think about it ;) The next day (last day out this year), after re-thinking/tuning the suspension settings, I tried it again and it still wheelied, just not as severe... about 3-4 feet in first, and then about 2-3 feet in second gear :cool: It certainly was the crowd pleaser those two days out.... next year isn't too far away.

I should have the new mill and a second stage ready for spring ;) with some tuning, I'll then be calling out Eric to spank on his Nova! :D

-L8R

I run LE (Lubrication Engeineers) Monolec 20-50w. I've only made about 10 passes with it but it too comes highly recommended. It is supposed to hold up longer. I plan on having it tested to see what the breakdown is.

Don't you think you are setting your goal a little too low? I have an 81' Chevy 1-ton dually (stock) that could kick his butt til' his nose bleeds. And yes, that's WITH the A/C running.
:D

bwahahha you guys are too funny. The nova's gonna have some bottle maybe over the winter :) Haha kevin your too much man. Just remember the GT's gonna be ready soon..then i'm gonna call both you pansies out :)

...pansies?
 

I'll line up with your GT, Eric... it'd be fun to line up with a Pro 5.0 car :cool: ....wouldn't be much of a race, but we could see who gets tree'd ;) ...or do a bracket race :rolleyes:

BUT, I'll take your Nova :p... even with you sprayin' the piss out of it!!! :D

Anyhow :) ...I'd been changing my oil after every 10-15 passes. Not real sure just how great the VR-1 stuff is, but I think it worked well considering the condition of the bearings... they could probably be reused! They'd been in that motor since '99 and have held up great (clevite 77).

If you have any info on the LE Monolec, Kevin, please send it to me via e-mail... or just let me know how it works out for you, whichever works for you.

L8R!

I'd tree the piss outta you :) You sure you want some of the GT?? haha j/k But i'll give you some of the nova if that's what you want.