Problem after distributor install

billheis · 11-05-2003, 10:15 AM

I just installed a new MSD pro distrib. in my 90. The factory one had a lot of play in the shaft and I had a part throttle / cruise surge. The surge is gone and runs smooth at cruise. The problem I have now is sever hesitation off idle. This morning when the engine was cold it backfired in the intake as I was pulling out from the house. It got better as the engine warmed up but still there. Timing is set at 15 which is where the other dist. was set and yes I did put the spout connector back in. What am I over looking? Thanks for input.
Bill

crazypete · 11-05-2003, 03:11 PM

If the timing light says 15 degrees then that's where it is! timing lights dont lie. The only problem with dizzy installs is: People putting them 180 degree from where they are supposed to be (I hear they even run a bit like that) and the wrong gear type (you need a steel gear for a roller cam). I assume MSD shipped you a fitting unit.

Here's what once happened to me. One of the plug wires dipped and got the rubber singed off by the header. I pooped the hood at night and saw spark spark spark. I pulled it back and the motor smoothed out incredibly.

BLACK85GT · 11-06-2003, 07:17 PM

yeah, sounds like a bad wire, or wire in wrong firing order. Triple check firing order, then have a friend double check you. If correct order, try replacing the wires.

rwhite65 · 11-06-2003, 09:09 PM

check the wires, easy stuff first.
Ryan

QuantumMotorsports · 11-06-2003, 09:38 PM

I'd try putting the timing at 10 degrees if all of the wires are good and in the right order. 15 is a bit high. Also, check the plug gap and make sure no plugs are fowled or anything.

82 GT · 11-07-2003, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by crazypete
. The only problem with dizzy installs is: People putting them 180 degree from where they are supposed to be (I hear they even run a bit like that) and the wrong gear type (you need a steel gear for a roller cam). I assume MSD shipped you a fitting unit.

I hate to call you on this one but there is no way in hell a car will run with the timing 180* out.
I just got my new engine running the other night and I had the distributor 180* off and I got backfire and flames through the carb. Tell me how a car is going to run like that

Second, you need a bronze distributor gear if you run a roller cam.
Your problem could be the MAF sensor. Also try cleaning or replacing the TPS.
Oh yeah....back the timing down by about 2 or 3*

billheis · 11-08-2003, 08:11 PM

Thanks for all your replys. I put the stock 125,000 miler back in and problem went away, so its back to MSD with the distrib so they can fix it.

88workcar · 11-09-2003, 11:08 AM

Bill you did it before I could reply, ol well good job.

Pyromaniac79 · 11-14-2003, 10:09 AM

I just had to reply about the 180 deg out thing, I have done this to a VW bug engine, and it DID run, idled perfect, but when you try to go it would spit/sputter/backfire.

86GT · 11-14-2003, 11:28 AM

82GT, Sorry, but you're wrong on the bronze gear thing. Bronze gear will work, but not last long with a roller cam. Steel is what is needed for the billet cams that Ford, TFS, Crane, etc make. I had to research this when I switched to a carb and my dizzy came with a bronze gear. Had to have it swapped for the steel one on my cam manufacturer's advice.

As for the original post. Glad to hear its running better with your dizzy. What did you different when you put the stock one back in? I've seen them put in one tooth out and run, but hesitate like crazy or pop, depending on which way it was out. Something to think about tho.

82 GT · 11-15-2003, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pyromaniac79
I just had to reply about the 180 deg out thing, I have done this to a VW bug engine, and it DID run, idled perfect, but when you try to go it would spit/sputter/backfire.

I have no idea how a car can even idle 180* out. I just know that my engine wouldn't even fire up. It would backfire and shoot a flame out the carb.
Unless those smaller engines are different.......I don't know how because when it's 180* the spark plug is firing on the exhaust stroke. Maybe my definition of "180 out" is different than yours.

86 GT , I stand corrected on the bronze gear thing.

billheis · 11-16-2003, 10:15 AM

You guys are getting way off on a tangent here. I suppose a VW flat 4 may run with dist. in wrong but if you get more than 40 degrees off on v8 and you cant even start the thing let alone run. I've been hot rodding for more than 30 years and built many engines and I had the dist in right and timed right. I even remembered to put spout connector back in. Emailed MSD and they didn't have an idea but said that since I put the factory one back in and problem went away that it must be in dist. So they advised me send dist. back and they will fix it

82 GT · 11-16-2003, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by billheis
I suppose a VW flat 4 may run with dist. in wrong but if you get more than 40 degrees off on v8 and you cant even start the thing let alone run.

My point exactly!! I was referring to V-8 engines. I didn't know this was VW WORKS.

RoadWarrior · 11-16-2003, 05:48 PM

Actually in defense of billheis a 302 will run with it being 180* out. I did it on my 302 when i did my first cam swap. It would start and run and while it didnt idle the best it would idle. The problem was if you would touch the gas it would backfire.

crazypete · 11-17-2003, 08:40 AM

Ok! Let's beat this to death! Yee-haw!

When I finished my 302 rebuild and I was reassembling my engine, I dropped the distributor 180 degrees and it actually started....barely and sputtered a bit and after scratching my head for a while and making adjustments over and over, I got mad and just spun the thing completely and viola! No more problems.

I went through the whole distributor gear thing when doing my carb swap. The standard bronze gears disintegrate in about 5 minutes under the steel gear of the cam. I tore up 2 gears before I realized what was wrong! Good thing the chips fell harmlessly down and came out with the oilchange. I had to get an aftermarket steel gear from FMS.

BaLListic · 11-19-2003, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Second, you need a bronze distributor gear if you run a roller cam.

well you were sorta right about that.... check out the explination why you were mistaken.....

http://www.cranecams.com/master/stdrvgear.htm

82 GT · 11-19-2003, 11:59 PM

Ahhhhhh.....I see what you mean when you say I was part right.
I'm still living in the past

11-05-2003, 10:15 AM	#1
billheis Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Fernandina Beach, FL 32034 Posts: 178	Problem after distributor install I just installed a new MSD pro distrib. in my 90. The factory one had a lot of play in the shaft and I had a part throttle / cruise surge. The surge is gone and runs smooth at cruise. The problem I have now is sever hesitation off idle. This morning when the engine was cold it backfired in the intake as I was pulling out from the house. It got better as the engine warmed up but still there. Timing is set at 15 which is where the other dist. was set and yes I did put the spout connector back in. What am I over looking? Thanks for input. Bill __________________ Bill Heiser 90 Convertable 5.0 LX, ported E7s w/ THumper valve job, TFS street, FR 65mm TB, B cam w/1.7 cobra rockers, kirban AFPR, Mac CAI, Mac Headers, off road h, 3 chamber flows, Crane ign. box, 3:73s, Art Carr AOD & 2600 converter

11-05-2003, 03:11 PM	#2
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	If the timing light says 15 degrees then that's where it is! timing lights dont lie. The only problem with dizzy installs is: People putting them 180 degree from where they are supposed to be (I hear they even run a bit like that) and the wrong gear type (you need a steel gear for a roller cam). I assume MSD shipped you a fitting unit. Here's what once happened to me. One of the plug wires dipped and got the rubber singed off by the header. I pooped the hood at night and saw spark spark spark. I pulled it back and the motor smoothed out incredibly. __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

11-06-2003, 07:17 PM	#3
BLACK85GT Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tampa,FLORIDA Posts: 340	yeah, sounds like a bad wire, or wire in wrong firing order. Triple check firing order, then have a friend double check you. If correct order, try replacing the wires. __________________ 5.0, Holley heads, 1.7 Scorp Rockers, Stealth intake, Holley 600 carb, Holley Mech. Fuel pump, MSD 6Digital, MSD distributor, Hotchkis upper/lower rear control arms, FMS B Springs, 3:73 (8.8) rear. Production # 9,377

11-06-2003, 09:09 PM	#4
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	check the wires, easy stuff first. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

11-06-2003, 09:38 PM	#5
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	I'd try putting the timing at 10 degrees if all of the wires are good and in the right order. 15 is a bit high. Also, check the plug gap and make sure no plugs are fowled or anything. __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

11-08-2003, 08:11 PM	#7
billheis Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Fernandina Beach, FL 32034 Posts: 178	Thanks for all your replys. I put the stock 125,000 miler back in and problem went away, so its back to MSD with the distrib so they can fix it. __________________ Bill Heiser 90 Convertable 5.0 LX, ported E7s w/ THumper valve job, TFS street, FR 65mm TB, B cam w/1.7 cobra rockers, kirban AFPR, Mac CAI, Mac Headers, off road h, 3 chamber flows, Crane ign. box, 3:73s, Art Carr AOD & 2600 converter

11-09-2003, 11:08 AM	#8
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Bill you did it before I could reply, ol well good job. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

11-14-2003, 10:09 AM	#9
Pyromaniac79 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 26	I just had to reply about the 180 deg out thing, I have done this to a VW bug engine, and it DID run, idled perfect, but when you try to go it would spit/sputter/backfire.

11-14-2003, 11:28 AM	#10
86GT Sniffed too much n20 Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Ont, Canada Posts: 1,018	82GT, Sorry, but you're wrong on the bronze gear thing. Bronze gear will work, but not last long with a roller cam. Steel is what is needed for the billet cams that Ford, TFS, Crane, etc make. I had to research this when I switched to a carb and my dizzy came with a bronze gear. Had to have it swapped for the steel one on my cam manufacturer's advice. As for the original post. Glad to hear its running better with your dizzy. What did you different when you put the stock one back in? I've seen them put in one tooth out and run, but hesitate like crazy or pop, depending on which way it was out. Something to think about tho. __________________ 2002 Windsor Weekend Q16 Qualifier

11-16-2003, 10:15 AM	#12
billheis Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Fernandina Beach, FL 32034 Posts: 178	You guys are getting way off on a tangent here. I suppose a VW flat 4 may run with dist. in wrong but if you get more than 40 degrees off on v8 and you cant even start the thing let alone run. I've been hot rodding for more than 30 years and built many engines and I had the dist in right and timed right. I even remembered to put spout connector back in. Emailed MSD and they didn't have an idea but said that since I put the factory one back in and problem went away that it must be in dist. So they advised me send dist. back and they will fix it __________________ Bill Heiser 90 Convertable 5.0 LX, ported E7s w/ THumper valve job, TFS street, FR 65mm TB, B cam w/1.7 cobra rockers, kirban AFPR, Mac CAI, Mac Headers, off road h, 3 chamber flows, Crane ign. box, 3:73s, Art Carr AOD & 2600 converter

11-16-2003, 05:48 PM	#14
RoadWarrior Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Edmonton,Alberta,Canada Posts: 317	Actually in defense of billheis a 302 will run with it being 180* out. I did it on my 302 when i did my first cam swap. It would start and run and while it didnt idle the best it would idle. The problem was if you would touch the gas it would backfire. __________________ Fast Company

11-17-2003, 08:40 AM	#15
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Ok! Let's beat this to death! Yee-haw! When I finished my 302 rebuild and I was reassembling my engine, I dropped the distributor 180 degrees and it actually started....barely and sputtered a bit and after scratching my head for a while and making adjustments over and over, I got mad and just spun the thing completely and viola! No more problems. I went through the whole distributor gear thing when doing my carb swap. The standard bronze gears disintegrate in about 5 minutes under the steel gear of the cam. I tore up 2 gears before I realized what was wrong! Good thing the chips fell harmlessly down and came out with the oilchange. I had to get an aftermarket steel gear from FMS. __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

11-19-2003, 11:59 PM	#17
82 GT Import Slayer Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 2,241	Ahhhhhh.....I see what you mean when you say I was part right. I'm still living in the past __________________ '82 GT 351W (.060)Comp Cams 274* Extreme Energy cam, ported & polished heads w/ 1.94/1.60 valves 10.3:1 flat top pistons,stealth intake, Mallory dizzy,Holley 750dp carb, BBK shorties,Flowmaster exhaust,C-4 with 3700 stall converter, B&M pro shifter,8.8 rear, 4:10's, subframes, electric fan, powermaster alternator, 4 core radiator.

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