N/A Street Combos

HORSEMEN RACING · 06-13-2002, 04:10 PM

Looking for some inpute here,and this is one where opinions should not get you in trouble,I hope not but this is what I am asking.
For a stout street combo running natural aspiration what would some of you recommend,only rule to this is no 9.5 deck blocks(just in case you do not know that is a 351W deck height or 9.2 also)

The combo will have to do this,yes I am being very technical here so that will keep all the wanna-be's and know it alls at bay.
Here is the performance I am looking for mid to low 12's on a decent track,high 11's on a great track,power band from 2500-6500,stock bottom end or max cubes 347,fuel injected,any head long as they are inline Windsor heads,any cam as long as it is a hyd roller,I am looking for opinions here strong and smart opinions are definitely appreciated,the combo I would recommend is 75mm MAF sensor,65-70mm throttle body,24 pound injectors,TFS R intake,mildly ported Twisted Wedge heads, 1 5/8 long tubes,2.5 inch exhaust out the back minimum 3.73 gears and a hard launch come on people pull out those combos and offer up some opinions

1BAD89 · 06-13-2002, 04:52 PM

Here are the main pieces: C&L 76mm Mass air, AFM Custom grind, Holley 70mm Throttle body, Holley intake, 30 pound injectors, AFR 165's or 185's, BBK 1 3/4 Longtubes, BBK shorty X-pipe, 2.5 inch exhaust with Borla XR1 mufflers. 306 vs. 347, well your looking at probaly about 60hp more by going with the 347 everything else being the same on the two motors.

Skyman · 06-13-2002, 07:09 PM

My car went 12.5@107.5 w/ unported TFS heads, Unported Edelbrock intake, Adj FPR, 24lb Injectors, 190lph fuel pump, E-303 cam, 70mm TB, 73MM Maf, Mac Unequal Shorty 1 5/8 Headers, Off Road H pipe and 2 1/4 inch exhaust.

This is UN-TUNED.

Theres another tenth or two in it tuning it for sure. Ive changed the combo slightly now. I added a systemax II intake, and 1.72 rockers. Should go 12.3 at carlsbad here sometime this month.

I also have a 125shot on it which will get me somewhere in the 11's, I havent run it yet.

Skyler

Skyman · 06-13-2002, 07:11 PM

Oh yeah, the powerband is from 2200 to 5800.

I'd probably get another tenth out of it w/ hyper pistons too.

Also, on that 12.5 pass, my back saleen bumper facia was acting as a wind scoop because it was cut down from a fuel pump install. If youve seen the saleen back bumpers you will know what I mean. Also I had slicks on some jeep rims, and they were grinding bad into my brake calipers all the way down the track. So take those for what they are.

Skyler

Stroked408 · 06-13-2002, 07:21 PM

It is not the back bumper that worries me about the Saleens.
It is that parachute you call a spoiler on the back :-) Just kidding
My combo would be a carb car. I guess I am a little old school but here goes from carb to axle: 650HP Holley carb,AirGap Eddy Dual plane intake,AFR 165 heads with 1.6 rr's,XE282 cam,306 bottom end forged pistons :-) LOL have the crank reground, 1 5/8 shorty headers,off road X or H pipe at least 2.5 inches,4.30 gears,definitely a Tremec or C4 tranny if a C4 it would have a trans-brake,and just to keep that street stealth drag radials on the back in a coupe of course,just my 2 cents

Unit 5302 · 06-13-2002, 07:32 PM

What kind of trap? Based on what type of suspension setup? What kind of car? My combo will make best power below your 6500rpm criteria. I don't believe spinning the bottom end to 6500rpm+ is a good idea for the engine performance you're proposing. While it can probably take it, there is no reason to run it that high with the combinations available. Not to mention the addition of a computer enhancement to remove the 6250rpm limiter, which I will suggest anyway.

Example. 1992 Mustang GT Hatch. Manual. Drag suspension. I want to run low 12's/high 11's with a trap about 110mph.

331 Stroker
C&L 76mm MAF
70mm T/B
Holley Intake
Adjustable FPR
24lb/hr injectors
TFS #2 Cam
1.6:1 Roller Rockers
TFS TW Heads Stage 1 port
10:1 CR
1 5/8" Long tubes
Off Road Long tube x pipe
2 1/2" Catback
190lph fuel pump
Aluminum radiator
EEC Tuner
Tremec TKO
Aluminum driveshaft
31 spline axles
Differential cover
3.73:1 ring and pinion
28x10.5 ET's
4cyl Spings
70/30 front struts
Lower/upper control arms
Subframe connectors
Welded torque boxes

The combo listed above shouldn't be spinning to 6500rpm at all. Probably 6000rpm or so, and is based on a Fox body Mustang chassis. I would expect the stuff above to run the times you're looking for, actually I'd be ticked if it didn't run a low 12, even on a bad condition track, assuming you're not talking 5000ft. Trap speed should be somewhere in the 115mph neighborhood. Take the slicks off and use it as a daily driver, pretty much.

Stroked408 · 06-13-2002, 07:44 PM

Now we are talking,and seem to be on the same sheet of music,man that is a stout combo Unit5.
Okay I can see we have the hp wars going here and I am up for that.
Fuelie combo sorry Horsemen did not see that part,hmmmm let me see well on a NA Motor you are going to need some air okay here goes: 75mm Bullet MAF sensor,70mm throttle body,TFS R intake,stick with AFR 165 heads,Cam Motion custom cam, 1 5/8 shorty,X or H pipe,1.6 roller rockers, Tremec or C4 if C4 definitely with a tranny brake,4.10's,31 spline axles,Auburn Pro,Moser axles,once again in a coupe,sorry gents the coupe has me hands down

Stroked408 · 06-13-2002, 07:47 PM

30 pound injectors,heads milled,255 in-tank just to be safe,aftermarket fuel rails,just to be safe okay now I do not feel like a total nimrod

Stroked408 · 06-13-2002, 07:51 PM

Unit5,
I see you got 24 pound injectors? Why not just go 30 for safety sake,and tune them down with your adj. regulator? Just curious?

Unit 5302 · 06-13-2002, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stroked408
Unit5,
I see you got 24 pound injectors? Why not just go 30 for safety sake,and tune them down with your adj. regulator? Just curious?

That's not my personal combo, just one that I'm suggesting. I don't have that kinda money, lol.

Injectors reach safety limits at about 100psi. A good fuel pressure regulator might be adjustable up to about 60psi. There have been countless tests that show 500hp can be made on 24lb/hr injectors, and the combo I suggested is probably somewhere in the 400hp neighborhood. 30lb/hr injectors would probably be in the list if I thought the combo would make more than 425-450hp.

If you were to use 30lb/hr injectors with 400hp, likely the fuel pressure would be lower than stock, and the lower your fuel pressure is, the less efficient fuel atomization is. If you get to 20psi, you'd basically be squirting liquid fuel. The more pressure you have, up to reasonable safety limits, the better the spray pattern and fuel mixing is going to be. The result will be a more efficient burn, more power, better fuel economy, and greater reliability due to a more reliable burn, and the computers ability to tune.

Stroked408 · 06-13-2002, 09:24 PM

Definitely makes sense there,hey Unit5 and Sky sorry about all that other crap on the other post,it was just being called a "newbie" that irked me,we are all Mustangers and here to help each other as best we can.
Ok other than the suspension stuff I do not see that combo being that expensive,I am not made out of the green stuff either but long as you have a solid plan it should all work out.
My plan has always been and will always be get the motor right and everything will fall into place,just my 2 cents.
I also have noticed no one has said anything about high compression yet,but then again what is high compression? To someone that has access to 104 or 108 they are probably like what is that? To us regular folk 10.5 is screaming.
Horsemen you got me ready to try a NA fuelie combo to get it into the high 11's as many times I can get it to the tree. Good thread

faststang90 · 06-13-2002, 09:48 PM

i have a 302 bored .020 it 10.5:1 canfield heads stg2 ultradyne cam 600 lift 288 dur 1 5/8 long tubes 30# injs holley intakes and throttle body 70tb and 75 mass, 3:55 it has gone a 12.18 @113 mph on et streets with 1.71 60 foot and 11.20 @122 on a 140 shot leavin @ 3500 with a 1.588 60 foot

Stroked408 · 06-13-2002, 09:55 PM

Your cam is it solid roller or hyd roller cam? Is this car street driven? That seems like a lot of lift to me,600 lift is a very serious cam when I see NMRA Pure Street cars going 10's with custom grinds and long runner intakes,I bet it sounds bad azz though.

Coupe5oh · 06-14-2002, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by faststang90
i have a 302 bored .020 it 10.5:1 canfield heads stg2 ultradyne cam 600 lift 288 dur 1 5/8 long tubes 30# injs holley intakes and throttle body 70tb and 75 mass, 3:55 it has gone a 12.18 @113 mph on et streets with 1.71 60 foot and 11.20 @122 on a 140 shot leavin @ 3500 with a 1.588 60 foot

left at 3500 on street tires? oook

unit i agree, 24lb injectors support plenty hp, especially n/a street driven application.

and unit that combo is like you reading my mind, thats why we are cool, we are thinking on the same level here.....good luck

1BAD89 · 06-14-2002, 01:46 AM

Quote:

it has gone a 12.18 @113 mph on et streets with 1.71 60 foot and 11.20 @122 on a 140 shot leavin @ 3500 with a 1.588 60 foot

Quote:

left at 3500 on street tires? oook

ET Streets Coupe5oh, ET Streets!

Coupe5oh · 06-14-2002, 02:46 AM

lol, gotcha 1bad, i have a hard time calling e.t. streets, street tires, but thats just what they are supposed to be, i guess a radial came to mind, i been away, didnt read the whole post, my bad..

1BAD89 · 06-14-2002, 02:48 AM

Go to sleep Coupe, it's almost 3.

Coupe5oh · 06-14-2002, 02:58 AM

It is 3, and i have tommorrow, or today off

but still gotta wake up and do some work on my car, and prep for the track.....thanx again for the correction....now im tired since you mentioned sleep.

HORSEMEN RACING · 06-14-2002, 10:42 AM

thanks for the input guys,yeah you are definitely correct Unit5 should have said what it takes to get in the low 12's high 11's.

The combo I am in the process of purchasing is this.I have already a custom cam ordered(sorry not giving away specs on that one) and TFS Twisted Wedge heads with a Stage 1 port from Fox Lake.Reason behind Fox Lake is they treated me with respect and have been patience,the heads and cams set me back about 1900 dollars not bad considering the cam is matched to the heads I bought a package deal so there would be no confusion.
I appreciate all the feedback on the combos and I will keep you posted when I get this thing up and tuned,still waiting to get my intake TFS R,and some other small parts,this is going in a LX hatchback with full interior and like I said my goals are low to mid 12's on a decent track and 11's on a great track. I am very partial to Ennis because I see some of the fastest runs made there.
Once again appreciate the timely feedback,oh by the way I go by OC,HORSEMEN RACING is just the name of a group of us here on base.

Skyman · 06-14-2002, 12:25 PM

Lemme know when its ready we can go run em at carlsbad.

Skyler

06-13-2002, 04:10 PM	#1
HORSEMEN RACING Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Camp Pendleton,Cali Posts: 95	N/A Street Combos Looking for some inpute here,and this is one where opinions should not get you in trouble,I hope not but this is what I am asking. For a stout street combo running natural aspiration what would some of you recommend,only rule to this is no 9.5 deck blocks(just in case you do not know that is a 351W deck height or 9.2 also) The combo will have to do this,yes I am being very technical here so that will keep all the wanna-be's and know it alls at bay. Here is the performance I am looking for mid to low 12's on a decent track,high 11's on a great track,power band from 2500-6500,stock bottom end or max cubes 347,fuel injected,any head long as they are inline Windsor heads,any cam as long as it is a hyd roller,I am looking for opinions here strong and smart opinions are definitely appreciated,the combo I would recommend is 75mm MAF sensor,65-70mm throttle body,24 pound injectors,TFS R intake,mildly ported Twisted Wedge heads, 1 5/8 long tubes,2.5 inch exhaust out the back minimum 3.73 gears and a hard launch come on people pull out those combos and offer up some opinions __________________ OC "there are 5,000 Army troops sitting on their butts doing nothing,while 2 companies of Marines are securing this island" spoken by a Army General on the Isle of Grenada in 1983

06-13-2002, 07:09 PM	#3
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	My car went 12.5@107.5 w/ unported TFS heads, Unported Edelbrock intake, Adj FPR, 24lb Injectors, 190lph fuel pump, E-303 cam, 70mm TB, 73MM Maf, Mac Unequal Shorty 1 5/8 Headers, Off Road H pipe and 2 1/4 inch exhaust. This is UN-TUNED. Theres another tenth or two in it tuning it for sure. Ive changed the combo slightly now. I added a systemax II intake, and 1.72 rockers. Should go 12.3 at carlsbad here sometime this month. I also have a 125shot on it which will get me somewhere in the 11's, I havent run it yet. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-13-2002, 07:11 PM	#4
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Oh yeah, the powerband is from 2200 to 5800. I'd probably get another tenth out of it w/ hyper pistons too. Also, on that 12.5 pass, my back saleen bumper facia was acting as a wind scoop because it was cut down from a fuel pump install. If youve seen the saleen back bumpers you will know what I mean. Also I had slicks on some jeep rims, and they were grinding bad into my brake calipers all the way down the track. So take those for what they are. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

06-13-2002, 07:21 PM	#5
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	Stout combo Sky It is not the back bumper that worries me about the Saleens. It is that parachute you call a spoiler on the back :-) Just kidding My combo would be a carb car. I guess I am a little old school but here goes from carb to axle: 650HP Holley carb,AirGap Eddy Dual plane intake,AFR 165 heads with 1.6 rr's,XE282 cam,306 bottom end forged pistons :-) LOL have the crank reground, 1 5/8 shorty headers,off road X or H pipe at least 2.5 inches,4.30 gears,definitely a Tremec or C4 tranny if a C4 it would have a trans-brake,and just to keep that street stealth drag radials on the back in a coupe of course,just my 2 cents __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-13-2002, 07:44 PM	#7
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	another good combo Now we are talking,and seem to be on the same sheet of music,man that is a stout combo Unit5. Okay I can see we have the hp wars going here and I am up for that. Fuelie combo sorry Horsemen did not see that part,hmmmm let me see well on a NA Motor you are going to need some air okay here goes: 75mm Bullet MAF sensor,70mm throttle body,TFS R intake,stick with AFR 165 heads,Cam Motion custom cam, 1 5/8 shorty,X or H pipe,1.6 roller rockers, Tremec or C4 if C4 definitely with a tranny brake,4.10's,31 spline axles,Auburn Pro,Moser axles,once again in a coupe,sorry gents the coupe has me hands down __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-13-2002, 04:52 PM	#2
1BAD89 Tubbed and Juiced Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 1,861	Here are the main pieces: C&L 76mm Mass air, AFM Custom grind, Holley 70mm Throttle body, Holley intake, 30 pound injectors, AFR 165's or 185's, BBK 1 3/4 Longtubes, BBK shorty X-pipe, 2.5 inch exhaust with Borla XR1 mufflers. 306 vs. 347, well your looking at probaly about 60hp more by going with the 347 everything else being the same on the two motors.

06-13-2002, 07:32 PM	#6
Unit 5302 Registered Member Join Date: May 1999 Posts: 5,246	What kind of trap? Based on what type of suspension setup? What kind of car? My combo will make best power below your 6500rpm criteria. I don't believe spinning the bottom end to 6500rpm+ is a good idea for the engine performance you're proposing. While it can probably take it, there is no reason to run it that high with the combinations available. Not to mention the addition of a computer enhancement to remove the 6250rpm limiter, which I will suggest anyway. Example. 1992 Mustang GT Hatch. Manual. Drag suspension. I want to run low 12's/high 11's with a trap about 110mph. 331 Stroker C&L 76mm MAF 70mm T/B Holley Intake Adjustable FPR 24lb/hr injectors TFS #2 Cam 1.6:1 Roller Rockers TFS TW Heads Stage 1 port 10:1 CR 1 5/8" Long tubes Off Road Long tube x pipe 2 1/2" Catback 190lph fuel pump Aluminum radiator EEC Tuner Tremec TKO Aluminum driveshaft 31 spline axles Differential cover 3.73:1 ring and pinion 28x10.5 ET's 4cyl Spings 70/30 front struts Lower/upper control arms Subframe connectors Welded torque boxes The combo listed above shouldn't be spinning to 6500rpm at all. Probably 6000rpm or so, and is based on a Fox body Mustang chassis. I would expect the stuff above to run the times you're looking for, actually I'd be ticked if it didn't run a low 12, even on a bad condition track, assuming you're not talking 5000ft. Trap speed should be somewhere in the 115mph neighborhood. Take the slicks off and use it as a daily driver, pretty much.

06-13-2002, 07:47 PM	#8
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	forgot the fuel stuff 30 pound injectors,heads milled,255 in-tank just to be safe,aftermarket fuel rails,just to be safe okay now I do not feel like a total nimrod __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-13-2002, 07:51 PM	#9
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	checking it out Unit5, I see you got 24 pound injectors? Why not just go 30 for safety sake,and tune them down with your adj. regulator? Just curious? __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-13-2002, 09:24 PM	#11
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	Definitely makes sense there,hey Unit5 and Sky sorry about all that other crap on the other post,it was just being called a "newbie" that irked me,we are all Mustangers and here to help each other as best we can. Ok other than the suspension stuff I do not see that combo being that expensive,I am not made out of the green stuff either but long as you have a solid plan it should all work out. My plan has always been and will always be get the motor right and everything will fall into place,just my 2 cents. I also have noticed no one has said anything about high compression yet,but then again what is high compression? To someone that has access to 104 or 108 they are probably like what is that? To us regular folk 10.5 is screaming. Horsemen you got me ready to try a NA fuelie combo to get it into the high 11's as many times I can get it to the tree. Good thread __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-13-2002, 09:48 PM	#12
faststang90 Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: baytown,tx,us Posts: 128	n/a combo i have a 302 bored .020 it 10.5:1 canfield heads stg2 ultradyne cam 600 lift 288 dur 1 5/8 long tubes 30# injs holley intakes and throttle body 70tb and 75 mass, 3:55 it has gone a 12.18 @113 mph on et streets with 1.71 60 foot and 11.20 @122 on a 140 shot leavin @ 3500 with a 1.588 60 foot

06-13-2002, 09:55 PM	#13
Stroked408 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southwest Posts: 131	hyd or solid roller Your cam is it solid roller or hyd roller cam? Is this car street driven? That seems like a lot of lift to me,600 lift is a very serious cam when I see NMRA Pure Street cars going 10's with custom grinds and long runner intakes,I bet it sounds bad azz though. __________________ Deeper,Harder,Faster Stage Deeper Launch Harder Go Faster

06-14-2002, 02:46 AM	#16
Coupe5oh Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SanAntonio, Tx Posts: 734	lol, gotcha 1bad, i have a hard time calling e.t. streets, street tires, but thats just what they are supposed to be, i guess a radial came to mind, i been away, didnt read the whole post, my bad.. __________________ Police package 5spd 90 Lx, Stock original motor, 3.27grs, BM fan, fms 10.5 clutch, D&D quadrant, and adjuster, ADS chip, 180 stat, mac cai, mac h-pipe, mac subframe connectors, ASP crank pulley, ripper shifter, 26x10.5 M/T sport pros welds. 246 hp according to analyzer Race weight: 3,120 E.t-13.57 with 26x10.50's e.t. streets. 1.88 60' mph- 99.92 mph

06-14-2002, 02:48 AM	#17
1BAD89 Tubbed and Juiced Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma Posts: 1,861	Go to sleep Coupe, it's almost 3.

06-14-2002, 02:58 AM	#18
Coupe5oh Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: SanAntonio, Tx Posts: 734	It is 3, and i have tommorrow, or today off but still gotta wake up and do some work on my car, and prep for the track.....thanx again for the correction....now im tired since you mentioned sleep.

06-14-2002, 10:42 AM	#19
HORSEMEN RACING Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Camp Pendleton,Cali Posts: 95	Skyman,Unit5,Stroked408 thanks for the input guys,yeah you are definitely correct Unit5 should have said what it takes to get in the low 12's high 11's. The combo I am in the process of purchasing is this.I have already a custom cam ordered(sorry not giving away specs on that one) and TFS Twisted Wedge heads with a Stage 1 port from Fox Lake.Reason behind Fox Lake is they treated me with respect and have been patience,the heads and cams set me back about 1900 dollars not bad considering the cam is matched to the heads I bought a package deal so there would be no confusion. I appreciate all the feedback on the combos and I will keep you posted when I get this thing up and tuned,still waiting to get my intake TFS R,and some other small parts,this is going in a LX hatchback with full interior and like I said my goals are low to mid 12's on a decent track and 11's on a great track. I am very partial to Ennis because I see some of the fastest runs made there. Once again appreciate the timely feedback,oh by the way I go by OC,HORSEMEN RACING is just the name of a group of us here on base. __________________ OC "there are 5,000 Army troops sitting on their butts doing nothing,while 2 companies of Marines are securing this island" spoken by a Army General on the Isle of Grenada in 1983

06-14-2002, 12:25 PM	#20
Skyman I need 110mph Trap Speed! Join Date: Feb 1999 Location: So, CA Posts: 4,315	Lemme know when its ready we can go run em at carlsbad. Skyler __________________ 2001 BMW M3 6spd 12.79@108 RIP ---- 1993 Notch w/ 98 4V 4.6 Fasttt... -1989 Saleen Mustang #406- 12.32@109 -1999 Black Cobra Coupe- JBA Shorties, Bassani Cat-X, Magnaflow 3", Pulleys, 85mm Pro-M, Ported Intake, Soild Rear w/ 4.30s, Tubular Front End, X2C arms, 13lb batt, few others.

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