68 Mustang Engine Swap pulley problems

kirkdickinson · 10-10-2003, 10:36 PM

I just put a 302 into a 68 Mustang that used to have a 289 in it.

I know that the 289 isn't original and the guy at the machine shop told me it was out of a 67 Mustang.

The 289 was totally ruined with two broken pistons and bad scars inside the cylinder, broken valves, broken valve springs, etc... (already bored .60 over)

I purchased a 302 from a junkyard that was sold to me as a 351 Winsor from a truck, but after spending two days to get it ready to drop in, we discovered that it is actually a 302. And the numbers on the intake manifold say it came from a 68 Mustang. Decided to go ahead and put it in.

Well, the Mustang has a crossflow radiator and the 302 had a water pump that didn't have the outlet on the correct side, so we put the water pump from the 289 so that the radiator would work. Now the problem starts. The 289 had lower pulleys and waterpump pulley that were nearly the same size. The 302 had a bigger lower pulley, and a smaller waterpump pulley.

No problem, use the 302 pulley on the 289 waterpump. No go. The 289 waterpump is not as deep and the pulley doesn't line up. The pulley needs to be about 3/8" farther out.

Ok, No problem, I think, take the lower pulleys off of the 289 and then all the front pulleys will match, and the waterpump. Look at the pulleys and the 289 is a three bolt pulley and the 302 is a four bolt pulley. Besides the front of the 302 crank looks bigger.

I thought about using a stack of washers, but fear that there will be balancing problems with the water pump pulley since the pulley will be out past the center shaft.

I can't be the first one with this problem. Any solutions?

Thanks,

Kirk

Dark Knight · 10-11-2003, 10:29 AM

sounds like you have either a later 302, or a different balancer.. either get a new 3 bolt one.. or use the old one.. if it's good..

you might check and post the block casting number.. so you can be sure of the year,... they didnt make a 351w in 68, BTW..

kirkdickinson · 10-11-2003, 10:53 AM

Where is the block casting number? I thought it was under the intake manifold and I didn't look for it when we changed from the 2bbl to the 4bbl manifold.

I know there wasn't a 351W in 1968, the engine that I was supposed to get came out of a mid 80's Ford truck.

So you think I should switch the balancer? Isn't that balanced with the crank. If I mix and match balancers, won't that make my engine out of balance?

Thanks,

Kirk

Dark Knight · 10-11-2003, 01:46 PM

the casting number is on the bottom.. above the starter...
as long as the balance is the same, the balancer wont matter..
you just need to find out the year.. so you know if it's 28oz or 50oz balance

btw, the head casting numbers are under the intake ports, you can see them with a mirror if the intake is off..

HotRoddin · 10-11-2003, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kirkdickinson
Where is the block casting number?Kirk

Try this it may help you sort things out

http://www.members.tripod.com/thefal...ockdecode.html

kirkdickinson · 10-12-2003, 12:58 AM

Thanks for the decoding information.

I will check out the engine tomarrow.

Kirk

mustangII460 · 10-12-2003, 01:48 PM

Sorry I got a little confused.

If you have a three bolt balancer on the new motor it is pre 1969.

Water pumps on later motors dumped to the driver side.

You can buy a water pump for that conversion. But they are not stock from Ford. They will dump right side and the snout will be shorter and lower like the older ones. Or just change your radiator tanks for @ $75.00 or so. Which I recommend. Then you can use the later model pumps that are hands down better and stock Ford. Also you can go to a serpintine belt later if you want.

Frank.

kirkdickinson · 10-12-2003, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Sorry I got a little confused.

If you have a three bolt balancer on the new motor it is pre 1969.

No, the old motor that lunched had a 3-bolt balancer. The new motor has a 4 bolt balancer.

Quote:

Water pumps on later motors dumped to the driver side.

You can buy a water pump for that conversion. But they are not stock from Ford. They will dump right side and the snout will be shorter and lower like the older ones. Or just change your radiator tanks for @ $75.00 or so.

The radiator in there is a three core radiator that I remember that I paid $175 for.

Quote:

Which I recommend. Then you can use the later model pumps that are hands down better and stock Ford. Also you can go to a serpintine belt later if you want.

So the later model pumps are better? Why? And how could I go serpintine without a serpintine tensionier?

Thanks,

Kirk

mustangII460 · 10-13-2003, 03:37 PM

Late model pumps are more efficient and have different choices of pump material, and different flow rates per RPM. Long ago I would cut blades off the impeller to reduce resistance and for higher RPM flow. A water pump is set to flow its best around 2500 RPM or so. At speed your car relies on the high flow of air forced into the car. At idle your car needs the pump, and fan to stay cool.

Serp pumps on mid 1980's motors had a standard rotation pump with a serp belt. Unlike the later serp pump reverse rotation.

Look at a mid 80's serp belt setup. If the pump pulley is splined the pump is normal rotation, smooth/reverse. I use a 1986 Marquis 302 in my old Bronco. It has a serp belt normal rotation. NO TENSIONER. I run ALT/PUMP/PWR STEERING & Balancer. Except I got lazy and bent a piece of exhaust pipe to cross under the radiator instead of changing the the bottom outlet to the drivers side.

Maybe one day.

I did run into space problem. I couldn't run the clutch fan, or just the fan w/no clutch. I used a old Ford 4 blade fan. Works great. A clutch fan is farther out from the belt. Without the clutch it hit the belt. The 4 blader was skinny enuff to clear everything.

The only way to tell a pumps rotation (off car) is by the impeller, outsides are the same.

Hope this helps.

Frank

rwhite65 · 10-14-2003, 02:36 AM

why not use the 289 front dress on the 302? water pump, pulley's, balancer...ext.? If it is a later model 302, the 289 balancer should be fine.
Ryan

houseboatduhg · 07-13-2008, 07:45 PM

I have recently run into this same situation. Twenty years ago I dumped a 302 from a 71 torino into my 68 fastback. Everything worked great for the last twenty years, but I recently ruptured a hole in the bottom of the radiator, so I purchased a new alluminum radiator, that's when I reallized I must have used the torino radiator. The outlet for the new radiator dumped to the passenger side and water pump pick-up was to driver's side. So I bought the mustang water pump, but power steering and alt. brackets were different. finally got that pretty much sorted out, and then last night went to mount the water pump pulley and it hit the lower pulley and is 1/2" to far back. Any suggestions?????

10-10-2003, 10:36 PM	#1
kirkdickinson Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Barnesville, Ohio Posts: 9	68 Mustang Engine Swap pulley problems I just put a 302 into a 68 Mustang that used to have a 289 in it. I know that the 289 isn't original and the guy at the machine shop told me it was out of a 67 Mustang. The 289 was totally ruined with two broken pistons and bad scars inside the cylinder, broken valves, broken valve springs, etc... (already bored .60 over) I purchased a 302 from a junkyard that was sold to me as a 351 Winsor from a truck, but after spending two days to get it ready to drop in, we discovered that it is actually a 302. And the numbers on the intake manifold say it came from a 68 Mustang. Decided to go ahead and put it in. Well, the Mustang has a crossflow radiator and the 302 had a water pump that didn't have the outlet on the correct side, so we put the water pump from the 289 so that the radiator would work. Now the problem starts. The 289 had lower pulleys and waterpump pulley that were nearly the same size. The 302 had a bigger lower pulley, and a smaller waterpump pulley. No problem, use the 302 pulley on the 289 waterpump. No go. The 289 waterpump is not as deep and the pulley doesn't line up. The pulley needs to be about 3/8" farther out. Ok, No problem, I think, take the lower pulleys off of the 289 and then all the front pulleys will match, and the waterpump. Look at the pulleys and the 289 is a three bolt pulley and the 302 is a four bolt pulley. Besides the front of the 302 crank looks bigger. I thought about using a stack of washers, but fear that there will be balancing problems with the water pump pulley since the pulley will be out past the center shaft. I can't be the first one with this problem. Any solutions? Thanks, Kirk

10-11-2003, 10:29 AM	#2
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	sounds like you have either a later 302, or a different balancer.. either get a new 3 bolt one.. or use the old one.. if it's good.. you might check and post the block casting number.. so you can be sure of the year,... they didnt make a 351w in 68, BTW.. __________________ 84 convt,roller 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.58@102.84 and a '68 stang .. project 8 sec street car... 557 big block + N20 :-) http://members.cox.net/darkknight302/68nwrear.jpg

10-11-2003, 01:46 PM	#4
Dark Knight Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1998 Location: Az Posts: 854	the casting number is on the bottom.. above the starter... as long as the balance is the same, the balancer wont matter.. you just need to find out the year.. so you know if it's 28oz or 50oz balance btw, the head casting numbers are under the intake ports, you can see them with a mirror if the intake is off.. __________________ 84 convt,roller 302,AFR's, performer 3.55's, underdrives BBK shorties stock cam, 1.7's 13.58@102.84 and a '68 stang .. project 8 sec street car... 557 big block + N20 :-) http://members.cox.net/darkknight302/68nwrear.jpg

10-14-2003, 02:36 AM	#10
rwhite65 Ride Hard Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wyoming IL Posts: 1,094	the 289 front dress why not use the 289 front dress on the 302? water pump, pulley's, balancer...ext.? If it is a later model 302, the 289 balancer should be fine. Ryan __________________ 65 Fastback 91 roller 306, H/C/I AOD-Bauman, PI Stallion, 4.10's and traction loc 04 Grand Cherokee Freedom Edition 79 Ford F-250 4x4 - Restored

07-13-2008, 07:45 PM	#11
houseboatduhg Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Kingman AZ Posts: 1	Re: 68 Mustang Engine Swap pulley problems I have recently run into this same situation. Twenty years ago I dumped a 302 from a 71 torino into my 68 fastback. Everything worked great for the last twenty years, but I recently ruptured a hole in the bottom of the radiator, so I purchased a new alluminum radiator, that's when I reallized I must have used the torino radiator. The outlet for the new radiator dumped to the passenger side and water pump pick-up was to driver's side. So I bought the mustang water pump, but power steering and alt. brackets were different. finally got that pretty much sorted out, and then last night went to mount the water pump pulley and it hit the lower pulley and is 1/2" to far back. Any suggestions?????

10-11-2003, 10:53 AM	#3
kirkdickinson Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Barnesville, Ohio Posts: 9	Where is the block casting number? I thought it was under the intake manifold and I didn't look for it when we changed from the 2bbl to the 4bbl manifold. I know there wasn't a 351W in 1968, the engine that I was supposed to get came out of a mid 80's Ford truck. So you think I should switch the balancer? Isn't that balanced with the crank. If I mix and match balancers, won't that make my engine out of balance? Thanks, Kirk

10-12-2003, 12:58 AM	#6
kirkdickinson Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Barnesville, Ohio Posts: 9	Thanks for the decoding information. I will check out the engine tomarrow. Kirk

10-12-2003, 01:48 PM	#7
mustangII460 Factoy Five Roadster Join Date: May 2000 Location: Sevier Co,Tennessee Posts: 1,681	Sorry I got a little confused. If you have a three bolt balancer on the new motor it is pre 1969. Water pumps on later motors dumped to the driver side. You can buy a water pump for that conversion. But they are not stock from Ford. They will dump right side and the snout will be shorter and lower like the older ones. Or just change your radiator tanks for @ $75.00 or so. Which I recommend. Then you can use the later model pumps that are hands down better and stock Ford. Also you can go to a serpintine belt later if you want. Frank.

10-13-2003, 03:37 PM	#9
mustangII460 Factoy Five Roadster Join Date: May 2000 Location: Sevier Co,Tennessee Posts: 1,681	Late model pumps are more efficient and have different choices of pump material, and different flow rates per RPM. Long ago I would cut blades off the impeller to reduce resistance and for higher RPM flow. A water pump is set to flow its best around 2500 RPM or so. At speed your car relies on the high flow of air forced into the car. At idle your car needs the pump, and fan to stay cool. Serp pumps on mid 1980's motors had a standard rotation pump with a serp belt. Unlike the later serp pump reverse rotation. Look at a mid 80's serp belt setup. If the pump pulley is splined the pump is normal rotation, smooth/reverse. I use a 1986 Marquis 302 in my old Bronco. It has a serp belt normal rotation. NO TENSIONER. I run ALT/PUMP/PWR STEERING & Balancer. Except I got lazy and bent a piece of exhaust pipe to cross under the radiator instead of changing the the bottom outlet to the drivers side. Maybe one day. I did run into space problem. I couldn't run the clutch fan, or just the fan w/no clutch. I used a old Ford 4 blade fan. Works great. A clutch fan is farther out from the belt. Without the clutch it hit the belt. The 4 blader was skinny enuff to clear everything. The only way to tell a pumps rotation (off car) is by the impeller, outsides are the same. Hope this helps. Frank

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