Which is the real limiting factor on a stock 5.0? - Page 2

mike72678 · 09-16-2002, 01:58 PM

hey 88workcar , are you using nitrous ? i am also curious about the weight of your car when you race it , and what you got done to your suspension .

88workcar · 09-16-2002, 09:02 PM

Thank GOD that no one has taken my post wrong. I never wanted to upset anyone, but I want to get my point across. My car will get weighed Wed or Thur night this week. The last time I weighed it, it was 2900lbs with me in the car. Now it should come in at a high 2700lbs. I never post when my car has me stumped. But too weeks ago, the dist. went out. Now the torque boxes are demolished (OLD 1.5s 60fts) The biggest set back lately was that I spent $450 to have my old, big valve, ported, shaved, E7s redone and the gaskets and too days of wrenching. Only to fine that the head shop screwed me, one head is cracked. Yes they say that they checked them. Well today I called POWER HEADS, I thing that I am going that route. I want 12.00s on a pair of E7s. Yes I do have NOS, I don't have a cage so I don't use it at the track. I did bust a guys butt two weeks ago on the street with it.

Scrapla · 09-17-2002, 01:24 AM

I'm actually in the process of gettin an upper and lower intake on my pretty stock 1990 5.0gt so if your not in a rush i'll keep you posted as to what gives me the most power over stock.

Mustang_289 · 09-17-2002, 06:00 AM

Hey 88workcar - my son and I have an 88GT that we're fixing up for a weekend warrior. Currently we've got some bolt on mods like long-tube headers, underdrive headers, high flow cat back etc.

Currently the car is still speed density. I've been told by many people to convert to MAF as we're limited what we can do to increase performance on the car. I've seen a little indicator of this when we put on a K&N cononical filter and the car wouldn't idle worth beans.

We would like to get our car into the low 13s or high 12s NA. We don't have the knowlege that you have with putting together the right combo for the highest increase in hp and torque. Can you give us some suggestions on what you did? If you had to do all over again - would you stay SD or convert to MAF on your 88LX?

mike72678 · 09-17-2002, 06:32 AM

when i click on your link , why does it say that you have edelbrock performer cylinder heads ?

88workcar · 09-17-2002, 08:58 PM

289, I have a complete conversion here. I like the SD. My computer likes to show off as much as I do. It takes any thing I throw at it. ported GT 40s with big valves, Edelbrocs, Built E7s, E,B, 1087 wolverine, ram air, timing, compression. The only thing it will not accept is 24lb injectors, but ran as fast as 12.17@ 113 with 19s and 39psi of fuel at 3950lbs. (65mm cobra edel B). I have tried to remove EVERYTHING that I can. To go fast, you have to have money, or ambition and be willing to make sacrifices. Give up comfort. I want one thing, FAST. Look at the down side for me I have owned this car for 12 1/2 years and still only run 12s. Now I have raised 2 children bought a home remodled it, Race a banshee that runs 7.1s at 90mph in the 1/8th , my son has a blaster that will whipp any Raptor or 400EX in town. I make 600.00 a week. How much money do you think the mustang gets? One thing I do, is stay friends with the fast boys and try to buy 2nd hand when they up grade.
As far as the SD goes, I think that its all hear/say. Yes when I put the heads on it got stupid. Drive down the road, pouring fuel, smoking, running like crap. Ten minutes later its good to go.
Mike, that is three years ago, I need to change it. Those Edlebrocs were bought for 200 and I lost a friend when he decided that he wanted them back. He swore that they were mine, yes $200.00.
If I could do it all over, I would weld the torque boxes the 1st day. Yes I would stay SD. I will post every thing about my car real soon. It may be a few days I have to port some banshee cyl and repair a raptor this week. The biggest thing I tell people is make up your mind, Fast or comfort / Fast or quiet/ Fast or ect...

Mustang_289 · 09-19-2002, 07:04 AM

"289, I have a complete conversion here. I like the SD", what do you mean by complete conversion still SD with heads and the other stuff you did or conversion to MAF?

Dark_5.0 · 09-19-2002, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mustang_289
"289, I have a complete conversion here. I like the SD", what do you mean by complete conversion still SD with heads and the other stuff you did or conversion to MAF?

He means he has the stuff laying around to convert to mass air, but he likes his speed density computer.

BTW: My car is also speed density with pretty heavy mods.

Mustang_289 · 09-19-2002, 02:55 PM

I'm just trying to learn more about our stang - what do you guys like about SD vs MAF?

Dark_5.0 - what heavy mods have you done? I'll tell you we simply put on a K&N cononical filter as I said earlier and our stang ran like crap. Is there anything you guys did to the SD to get the heavy mods?

302 LX Eric · 09-19-2002, 03:03 PM

The SD's always seem to run 'harder' than the MAF cars.

I've always wondered how guys like Dark 5.0 and 88workcar have been able to have such success with their modified SD Mustangs. An aftermarket intake install on my buddy's 88 GT and the car wouldn't idle for crap and was blowing bluish-gray smoke out the pipes. Once you start playing with the volume of air the engine is seeing, it seems to give the SD fits - except in cases like I've mentioned above.

You gotta respect guys that have successfully modified their SDs - 12.20's is no joke!

E

Mustang_289 · 09-19-2002, 03:36 PM

I tip my hat to these dudes making SDs run in the 12s! It would be nice to get into the mid 13s with our stang. We haven't run it yet - but reading all the posts - I think we'll be in the 14s.

Dark_5.0 · 09-19-2002, 03:55 PM

I simply adjust the fuel pressure to get mine to idle right.

My mods..

extremely ported, polished and milled E7's with 1.7 RR
explorer intake with 3/8 inch phenolic spacer
65mm TB with 67mm egr spacer
aeromotive FPR
mac CAI fender kit
BBk 1 5/8 equal length headers
off road x-pipe
under drive pullies
flex fan
3.73's
etc....

My best time is a 13.4 @102mph @3000ft. I have the fuel pressure set @42psi @WOT.

88workcar · 09-20-2002, 09:30 PM

If you fellas want some encouragement. Listen to this. In 93 I got the "BUG" and bad. My son was 4 my daughter was just born. Money was,,,,well it wasn't. I got a set of stock heads and an intake from some one for nothing. I ported both. Cut the box open on the intake, ported, got it welded up. Ported blind (oo) when it was all done, I scraped money cutting grass to service the heads. 3 angle valve job, decked .030, new seals, .060 shims under the springs, ect... $200.00. I put it all on, the car ran WAAAYY faster. I lucked into some money got a 65mm TB. I already had 1 1/2 long tubes, 2 ch flows, 3.55s,k&n,fuel reg.,sub frames,4cyl springs all 4, muffler shop H pipe. It ran 13. 85 @ 100 before the heads and intake. 13.09 @ 105 after. Now, I gained 7 tenths, not knowing crap. All I knew was things are tight, my babies need to be fed, And we AIN'T GOT NO MONEY FOR THAT DAMM CAR. Fellas, port your stock heads. We all don't have $1000.00 alocated for alum. Have fun, do it anyway. People told me, Your waisting your time, now I'm waisting them. Who is it that said "come to the track, you might learn somthing?"

fastang · 09-21-2002, 01:56 AM

The magical 12 second quarter mile isnt nearly related to your heads/cam, or intake. It really comes down to your suspension setup. If you can yank a decent 60 ft you can run a 12 without porting those heads.

zepherman · 09-21-2002, 02:20 AM

Fastang, Im not so shure you can break 12's with suspension mods alone. Puting the most power to the ground possible definately make a huge difference, but a stock motor just doesn't have what it takes to go 12's with bolt-on aftermarket suspension parts.

88workcar · 09-21-2002, 07:42 AM

Phase II, one of the motors I bought, 500.00 junkyard motor. I put in just like it came out the donar car. This was a true stock motor. My car now had 4.30s, a good set of tires, less weight, race pully, and what ever else I can not remember right now. Still had dirt on the stock intake from the fork lift that put it in my truck. 1st pass, 13.42 @ 102. The week after I put plugs, wires, cap, rotor, timing, at 16. This netted a 13.22 @ 104. A week later my cobra and 65mm was on 12.98 @ 105.. A week later my good E7s and a B cam 12.53 @ 107.99.

Mustang_289 · 09-21-2002, 02:00 PM

What suspension mods to you guys recommend to get into the 12s? My son and I are planning on doing these mods over the winter to the rear for our 88GT 5-speed: 3.73s, Eaton posi, 31-spline Superior axles, new upper/lower control arms(open to recommendations). We already have Kenny Brown sub-frames welded on.

88workcar · 02-04-2003, 10:44 PM

Glad to see this thread came back up. 289 I can not tell you what is best, I can not make up your mind for you, But I WILL tell you what works for me.
Gut the car
alum racing seats
weld the torque boxes
put 3 1/2" studs in those new axles
drive shaft loop
alum drive shaft
4.30s
weld rims
good control arms, adjustable uppers (I don't have any) no SSMs
air bags
4 cylinder springs (all 4 )
90/10 lakewood struts
26 x10 Hoosier Slicks
Centerforce duel friction clutch
Launch at 5500rpm
after picking up timeslip go clean underware

Coupe50h · 02-05-2003, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 88workcar
If you fellas want some encouragement. Listen to this. In 93 I got the "BUG" and bad. My son was 4 my daughter was just born. Money was,,,,well it wasn't. I got a set of stock heads and an intake from some one for nothing. I ported both. Cut the box open on the intake, ported, got it welded up. Ported blind (oo) when it was all done, I scraped money cutting grass to service the heads. 3 angle valve job, decked .030, new seals, .060 shims under the springs, ect... $200.00. I put it all on, the car ran WAAAYY faster. I lucked into some money got a 65mm TB. I already had 1 1/2 long tubes, 2 ch flows, 3.55s,k&n,fuel reg.,sub frames,4cyl springs all 4, muffler shop H pipe. It ran 13. 85 @ 100 before the heads and intake. 13.09 @ 105 after. Now, I gained 7 tenths, not knowing crap. All I knew was things are tight, my babies need to be fed, And we AIN'T GOT NO MONEY FOR THAT DAMM CAR. Fellas, port your stock heads. We all don't have $1000.00 alocated for alum. Have fun, do it anyway. People told me, Your waisting your time, now I'm waisting them. Who is it that said "come to the track, you might learn somthing?"

I too shaved off 7 tenths, in a different way, i wish i could have my car down long enough to have the heads hogged out, but rely on it everyday for now.
Also i see you are pretty supportive of welding torque boxes, i am going to do this soon, since i can see a crack starting to appear in the pass side box, i give all the revs i can off the line (with crap gears) to get a good 60' i have a friend that is a welder, i am calling him this weekend, do you do this for strengh purposes only? or will the rear actually transfer power more accurately?

thnx workcar, and keep the wheels dangling

bigred90gt · 02-05-2003, 05:49 PM

Someone please help me out. What exactly are the torque boxes?
Thanks.
Caymon

One more thing. Will I still see gains if I port the intake and exhaust side of the heads but do not enlarge the valves? How hard is it to port the lower intake and the upper intake?

09-16-2002, 09:02 PM	#2
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Thank GOD that no one has taken my post wrong. I never wanted to upset anyone, but I want to get my point across. My car will get weighed Wed or Thur night this week. The last time I weighed it, it was 2900lbs with me in the car. Now it should come in at a high 2700lbs. I never post when my car has me stumped. But too weeks ago, the dist. went out. Now the torque boxes are demolished (OLD 1.5s 60fts) The biggest set back lately was that I spent $450 to have my old, big valve, ported, shaved, E7s redone and the gaskets and too days of wrenching. Only to fine that the head shop screwed me, one head is cracked. Yes they say that they checked them. Well today I called POWER HEADS, I thing that I am going that route. I want 12.00s on a pair of E7s. Yes I do have NOS, I don't have a cage so I don't use it at the track. I did bust a guys butt two weeks ago on the street with it. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

09-17-2002, 01:24 AM	#3
Scrapla Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 532	I'm actually in the process of gettin an upper and lower intake on my pretty stock 1990 5.0gt so if your not in a rush i'll keep you posted as to what gives me the most power over stock. __________________ 90gt 347 and some bolt ons :-) RICE HATERS MEMBER #73

09-17-2002, 08:58 PM	#6
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	289, I have a complete conversion here. I like the SD. My computer likes to show off as much as I do. It takes any thing I throw at it. ported GT 40s with big valves, Edelbrocs, Built E7s, E,B, 1087 wolverine, ram air, timing, compression. The only thing it will not accept is 24lb injectors, but ran as fast as 12.17@ 113 with 19s and 39psi of fuel at 3950lbs. (65mm cobra edel B). I have tried to remove EVERYTHING that I can. To go fast, you have to have money, or ambition and be willing to make sacrifices. Give up comfort. I want one thing, FAST. Look at the down side for me I have owned this car for 12 1/2 years and still only run 12s. Now I have raised 2 children bought a home remodled it, Race a banshee that runs 7.1s at 90mph in the 1/8th , my son has a blaster that will whipp any Raptor or 400EX in town. I make 600.00 a week. How much money do you think the mustang gets? One thing I do, is stay friends with the fast boys and try to buy 2nd hand when they up grade. As far as the SD goes, I think that its all hear/say. Yes when I put the heads on it got stupid. Drive down the road, pouring fuel, smoking, running like crap. Ten minutes later its good to go. Mike, that is three years ago, I need to change it. Those Edlebrocs were bought for 200 and I lost a friend when he decided that he wanted them back. He swore that they were mine, yes $200.00. If I could do it all over, I would weld the torque boxes the 1st day. Yes I would stay SD. I will post every thing about my car real soon. It may be a few days I have to port some banshee cyl and repair a raptor this week. The biggest thing I tell people is make up your mind, Fast or comfort / Fast or quiet/ Fast or ect... __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

09-19-2002, 03:03 PM	#10
302 LX Eric or '331 LX Eric' Join Date: Jan 1999 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 2,142	The SD's always seem to run 'harder' than the MAF cars. I've always wondered how guys like Dark 5.0 and 88workcar have been able to have such success with their modified SD Mustangs. An aftermarket intake install on my buddy's 88 GT and the car wouldn't idle for crap and was blowing bluish-gray smoke out the pipes. Once you start playing with the volume of air the engine is seeing, it seems to give the SD fits - except in cases like I've mentioned above. You gotta respect guys that have successfully modified their SDs - 12.20's is no joke! E __________________ 1991 5.0 LX Coupe - 40,750 miles 331 cu. in. / Tremec 3550 / BFG Drag Radials 12.22 @ 114.31 mph - w/1.89 60'

09-19-2002, 03:55 PM	#12
Dark_5.0 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Staging lane Posts: 4,337	I simply adjust the fuel pressure to get mine to idle right. My mods.. extremely ported, polished and milled E7's with 1.7 RR explorer intake with 3/8 inch phenolic spacer 65mm TB with 67mm egr spacer aeromotive FPR mac CAI fender kit BBk 1 5/8 equal length headers off road x-pipe under drive pullies flex fan 3.73's etc.... My best time is a 13.4 @102mph @3000ft. I have the fuel pressure set @42psi @WOT. __________________ 92' LX-Big brakes, Lots and lots of suspension, GT40X heads, Ported cobra intake, stock cam, Vortech SC trim. 00' Lightning-Stock 88'CRX-13 second ego killer

09-16-2002, 01:58 PM	#1
mike72678 MW Link Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: rochester , ny Posts: 79	hey 88workcar , are you using nitrous ? i am also curious about the weight of your car when you race it , and what you got done to your suspension .

09-17-2002, 06:00 AM	#4
Mustang_289 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 512	Hey 88workcar - my son and I have an 88GT that we're fixing up for a weekend warrior. Currently we've got some bolt on mods like long-tube headers, underdrive headers, high flow cat back etc. Currently the car is still speed density. I've been told by many people to convert to MAF as we're limited what we can do to increase performance on the car. I've seen a little indicator of this when we put on a K&N cononical filter and the car wouldn't idle worth beans. We would like to get our car into the low 13s or high 12s NA. We don't have the knowlege that you have with putting together the right combo for the highest increase in hp and torque. Can you give us some suggestions on what you did? If you had to do all over again - would you stay SD or convert to MAF on your 88LX?

09-17-2002, 06:32 AM	#5
mike72678 MW Link Sponsor Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: rochester , ny Posts: 79	when i click on your link , why does it say that you have edelbrock performer cylinder heads ?

09-19-2002, 07:04 AM	#7
Mustang_289 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 512	"289, I have a complete conversion here. I like the SD", what do you mean by complete conversion still SD with heads and the other stuff you did or conversion to MAF?

09-19-2002, 02:55 PM	#9
Mustang_289 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 512	I'm just trying to learn more about our stang - what do you guys like about SD vs MAF? Dark_5.0 - what heavy mods have you done? I'll tell you we simply put on a K&N cononical filter as I said earlier and our stang ran like crap. Is there anything you guys did to the SD to get the heavy mods?

09-19-2002, 03:36 PM	#11
Mustang_289 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 512	I tip my hat to these dudes making SDs run in the 12s! It would be nice to get into the mid 13s with our stang. We haven't run it yet - but reading all the posts - I think we'll be in the 14s.

09-20-2002, 09:30 PM	#13
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	If you fellas want some encouragement. Listen to this. In 93 I got the "BUG" and bad. My son was 4 my daughter was just born. Money was,,,,well it wasn't. I got a set of stock heads and an intake from some one for nothing. I ported both. Cut the box open on the intake, ported, got it welded up. Ported blind (oo) when it was all done, I scraped money cutting grass to service the heads. 3 angle valve job, decked .030, new seals, .060 shims under the springs, ect... $200.00. I put it all on, the car ran WAAAYY faster. I lucked into some money got a 65mm TB. I already had 1 1/2 long tubes, 2 ch flows, 3.55s,k&n,fuel reg.,sub frames,4cyl springs all 4, muffler shop H pipe. It ran 13. 85 @ 100 before the heads and intake. 13.09 @ 105 after. Now, I gained 7 tenths, not knowing crap. All I knew was things are tight, my babies need to be fed, And we AIN'T GOT NO MONEY FOR THAT DAMM CAR. Fellas, port your stock heads. We all don't have $1000.00 alocated for alum. Have fun, do it anyway. People told me, Your waisting your time, now I'm waisting them. Who is it that said "come to the track, you might learn somthing?" __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

09-21-2002, 01:56 AM	#14
fastang Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: santa ana ca Posts: 1,349	The magical 12 second quarter mile isnt nearly related to your heads/cam, or intake. It really comes down to your suspension setup. If you can yank a decent 60 ft you can run a 12 without porting those heads. __________________ 98 GT manual trans, Magna Flow exh. old car: 95GT, TFS T.W. heads, Holley Intake, B303 cam, FRPP 30lb injectors, Scorpion 1.6 rollers, 65mm TB, 73mm MAF, BBK Longtubes, Flowmaster cat back, March Pulleys, MSD coil, 9mm wires, Tremec 3550 trans, Pro5.0 shifter,10.5 Motorsport clutch, FMS aluminum driveshaft, weld in subframe connectors. 190lph pump, BBK adj FPR.

09-21-2002, 02:20 AM	#15
zepherman Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Oklahoma City OK USA Posts: 236	Fastang, Im not so shure you can break 12's with suspension mods alone. Puting the most power to the ground possible definately make a huge difference, but a stock motor just doesn't have what it takes to go 12's with bolt-on aftermarket suspension parts. __________________ 90 GT 25th Anni. Did the AOD to T-5 swap, SPEC clutch, Steeda Tri-Ax shifter, BBK 2½ inch off-road H pipe, Flows, BBK 70mm TB/EGR, Ford Racing aluminim driveshaft, 3.55's, welded subframes, Ram Air, 3 core radiator, NOS dry kit 75 shot, and a K&N filter. 12.9 @ 108

09-21-2002, 07:42 AM	#16
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Phase II, one of the motors I bought, 500.00 junkyard motor. I put in just like it came out the donar car. This was a true stock motor. My car now had 4.30s, a good set of tires, less weight, race pully, and what ever else I can not remember right now. Still had dirt on the stock intake from the fork lift that put it in my truck. 1st pass, 13.42 @ 102. The week after I put plugs, wires, cap, rotor, timing, at 16. This netted a 13.22 @ 104. A week later my cobra and 65mm was on 12.98 @ 105.. A week later my good E7s and a B cam 12.53 @ 107.99. __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

09-21-2002, 02:00 PM	#17
Mustang_289 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 512	What suspension mods to you guys recommend to get into the 12s? My son and I are planning on doing these mods over the winter to the rear for our 88GT 5-speed: 3.73s, Eaton posi, 31-spline Superior axles, new upper/lower control arms(open to recommendations). We already have Kenny Brown sub-frames welded on.

02-04-2003, 10:44 PM	#18
88workcar Registered Member Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Pierre Part, La. U.S.A. Posts: 1,850	Glad to see this thread came back up. 289 I can not tell you what is best, I can not make up your mind for you, But I WILL tell you what works for me. Gut the car alum racing seats weld the torque boxes put 3 1/2" studs in those new axles drive shaft loop alum drive shaft 4.30s weld rims good control arms, adjustable uppers (I don't have any) no SSMs air bags 4 cylinder springs (all 4 ) 90/10 lakewood struts 26 x10 Hoosier Slicks Centerforce duel friction clutch Launch at 5500rpm after picking up timeslip go clean underware __________________ 88workcar 1988 Mustang LX 342. 417rwhp @ 6800. 28 X 10 ET Drag, 4.30s, 10.69 @ 126.43 1.42 60ft. 11.13 @ 127.7 on BFGs 1.72 60ft Rice Hater # 42 To be old and wise, You must first be young and stupid I'm somewhere in tthe middle.

02-05-2003, 05:49 PM	#20
bigred90gt 2 Stangs in the Stable Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Baytown, TX Posts: 1,209	Someone please help me out. What exactly are the torque boxes? Thanks. Caymon One more thing. Will I still see gains if I port the intake and exhaust side of the heads but do not enlarge the valves? How hard is it to port the lower intake and the upper intake? __________________ '90 GT Under construction Best E.T. = Fast @ High Speeds - OK So I Lie. So What!!! 04 F-150 STX 4.2L 5 spd Rice Haters Club Member #128

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