Coolent leaking into intake?

SmokinStangGT · 11-21-2003, 02:31 AM

I was trying to time my mustang about a week ago and it sounded and ran good, then after i bit of driving it started to run crappy and tries/and did die out after it gets warm for a few minutes... now i took a compression test and it was about half the compression it should be and when i got it running it was at as much as it should be and then after a while (when it started running crappy) and then now it is half that compression. so then i drained the oil and come to find out i had almost all my coolent in there too! so i was thinking i blew a head gasket but it didnt make sense because i had high crank case pressure now and so i went to take off the lower intake to get to the heads and the LOWER INTAKE BOLTS ON THE LEFT WERE LOOSE! I know i tourqued everything down and so i tourqed it down real good and tried again..... did an motor flush and flilled the radiator with water for the time being and put oil in.... now it ran like a champ again! But then yesterday it ran crappy so i thought i had a head gasket bad because the compression was down again too... so i went to take off the intake (lower) again and the left bolts were really loose again! so my question is if the lower intake bolts on the left are not even hand tight could i get coolent into my oil through the under part of the intke or "valley" and how can i keep these bolts from backing out again????? this is a huge pain! Any comments welcome! THANKS!

Jeff Chambers · 11-21-2003, 07:39 AM

Somethings not right if the intake bolts keep coming loose. I'd have to wonder if the head bolts on that side aren't loose as well and its letting the two move in relation to each other, loosening th intake bolts in time. There's no reason for them to work loose in that short time. You need to start by pulling the lower to see exactly what's up with those gaskets/bolts/etc. If you're seeing compression being low, then I'd have to believe that you've got a head gasket problem of some sort. The difference between cold and warm compression tests shouldn't be double as you explain. Check it out thoroughly before you end up hydraulicing a cylinder.

crazypete · 11-21-2003, 10:51 AM

Use _copious_ quantities of silicone gasket maker around the coolant ports and I mean goop it! I had 2 such leaks before I realized what a huge part sealer plays in relation to the gasket. Make sure you crisscross when you bolt the lower down. I always found torque specs to be very conservative. Ignore them and get the bolts in there as tight as you can. Tighten them _carefully_ once the engine is warm (I've snapped off boltheads tightening hot parts). I saw this behaviour on my valvecovers when the bolts would back off on the first warmup cycle following a reassembly.

QuantumMotorsports · 11-21-2003, 11:11 AM

If you've got bad compression, you can almost be sure it's a head gasket problem if you're also getting coolant in the oil. I'd go ahead and pull the head on the side where the intake bolts keep getting loose. Is the compression bad all around? or just one side? I don't see any reason for the loose intake to cause bad compression.

SmokinStangGT · 11-21-2003, 11:46 AM

Thanks for the replies, i have the same low compression all around the motor, and i thought the reason could be because the oil is turning to water, letting the air seep through the rings. would that be right? and when it was just put together again before this last time it ran great, but then i think the coolent was breaking down the oil and getting into the intake of the heads.... and im pretty sure that the coolent pressure could be great enough to spray from the lower intake in the left rear to get into the oil right??? -Thanks for any thoughts, and i may just do what crazypete said with come gasket sealer and tourqe those bolts down nice and keep checking them and if it continues then i will know i have a gasket leak, unless you guys tell me to pull my heads! Thanks again!

Jeff Chambers · 11-22-2003, 07:44 AM

Careful on over-torqing the intake bolts. I always work to the low end of the recommended torque (12-18 ft-lbs). Overtightening the intake bolts can lift the heads and lead to head gasket problems. Seen it many, many times. The Ford 302 design is extremely poor in head gasket sealing with only 10 bolts per head and the way that they are placed around the cylinder. The intake doesn't need alot of torque to hold it in place so I'd stick with the 12-18 ft-lbs. You've still got something going on though if those bolts are loosening themselves. I have never seen that happen, so something's amiss.

SmokinStangGT · 11-24-2003, 04:10 PM

yea i have a copper head gasket on the side that is getting shakin loose and a good fel-pro on the other head, and if i found i blew the copper gasket, is there any other kind that is better? If the intake was not tightened down (when the bolts came loose) could the coolent have been mixing into the valley? or is the pressure not that great? and last question is could the compression be low because of the oil having no thickness to it? almost like water? because all of the cylinders read the same low compression (about 90-100 psi). Thanks!

mustangII460 · 11-24-2003, 05:20 PM

Thread sealer , new bolts.

SilverSN95 · 11-24-2003, 08:47 PM

Here is my take on bolts backing out. This will happen if it does not maintain a residual torque or bolt stretch. There are a number of things that can cause this but anything that prevents either of these two things from happening will result in the bolt backing out. Is anything stripped? Are the bolts bottoming out? Are you securing the bolts with the proper pattern/sequence and using a torque wrench to ensure proper installation torque?

Also, just a question, if you are leaking coolant into the motor wouldn't that cause the oil to sludge up? I thought any significant amount of water in oil will cause this to happen and not actually thin-out the oil.

SmokinStangGT · 11-25-2003, 12:35 PM

good idea factoryfive, i was thinking about how those bolts problaly need to be replaced because they hae been reused alot, and it was the same thing that silversn95 was saying that they need to strecth but if they are strected too much it wont work again right?? and i am going to use tread sealer this time. But coolent leaking into the motor will cause it to be like water but it does sludge up badly on the top of the valve covers, lower intake and oil valley and the rest (water like) is sitting at the bottom of the oil pan... That is how my experiances have been both times. Thanks alot for the help guys i will be going on vacation this next week to cancun so i will update you all in about 2 weeks! -Thanks!

11-21-2003, 02:31 AM	#1
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Coolent leaking into intake? I was trying to time my mustang about a week ago and it sounded and ran good, then after i bit of driving it started to run crappy and tries/and did die out after it gets warm for a few minutes... now i took a compression test and it was about half the compression it should be and when i got it running it was at as much as it should be and then after a while (when it started running crappy) and then now it is half that compression. so then i drained the oil and come to find out i had almost all my coolent in there too! so i was thinking i blew a head gasket but it didnt make sense because i had high crank case pressure now and so i went to take off the lower intake to get to the heads and the LOWER INTAKE BOLTS ON THE LEFT WERE LOOSE! I know i tourqued everything down and so i tourqed it down real good and tried again..... did an motor flush and flilled the radiator with water for the time being and put oil in.... now it ran like a champ again! But then yesterday it ran crappy so i thought i had a head gasket bad because the compression was down again too... so i went to take off the intake (lower) again and the left bolts were really loose again! so my question is if the lower intake bolts on the left are not even hand tight could i get coolent into my oil through the under part of the intke or "valley" and how can i keep these bolts from backing out again????? this is a huge pain! Any comments welcome! THANKS! __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

11-21-2003, 07:39 AM	#2
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	Somethings not right if the intake bolts keep coming loose. I'd have to wonder if the head bolts on that side aren't loose as well and its letting the two move in relation to each other, loosening th intake bolts in time. There's no reason for them to work loose in that short time. You need to start by pulling the lower to see exactly what's up with those gaskets/bolts/etc. If you're seeing compression being low, then I'd have to believe that you've got a head gasket problem of some sort. The difference between cold and warm compression tests shouldn't be double as you explain. Check it out thoroughly before you end up hydraulicing a cylinder. __________________ Jeff Chambers 1990 Mustang GT 10.032 Seconds / 137.5 MPH 14-time Street Warrior World Record Setter CRT Performance 2001 Tropic Green Mustang GT - 12.181 / 113.2 MPH 2002 Ford F-250 Crew Cab 7.3l Power Stroke - 17.41@77.2 "There's nothing boring about a small block automatic shifting gears at 9400 rpm!"

11-21-2003, 10:51 AM	#3
crazypete Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Boston Posts: 592	Use _copious_ quantities of silicone gasket maker around the coolant ports and I mean goop it! I had 2 such leaks before I realized what a huge part sealer plays in relation to the gasket. Make sure you crisscross when you bolt the lower down. I always found torque specs to be very conservative. Ignore them and get the bolts in there as tight as you can. Tighten them _carefully_ once the engine is warm (I've snapped off boltheads tightening hot parts). I saw this behaviour on my valvecovers when the bolts would back off on the first warmup cycle following a reassembly. __________________ 91 GT Carb conversion, holley 600 double pumper, edelbrock performer intake, FMS "C" drop springs, march 1000 underdrive pullies, crane 1.7 roller rockers, GT-40P headers, bassani x pipe, american thunder catback, FMS 4.56's, msd aL6, trunkmount battery, A/C eliminator kit, 3000 stall tci streetfighter, AOD with transgo kit, A+ servo, 300M hardened lockup shaft, kevlar bands and 28,000 gvw trans cooler, 3 core radiator, 300 lbs stripped with a full interior

11-21-2003, 11:11 AM	#4
QuantumMotorsports Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Norman, Oklahoma, USA Posts: 597	If you've got bad compression, you can almost be sure it's a head gasket problem if you're also getting coolant in the oil. I'd go ahead and pull the head on the side where the intake bolts keep getting loose. Is the compression bad all around? or just one side? I don't see any reason for the loose intake to cause bad compression. __________________ Michael Black QuantumMotorsports Norman, OK 1984 LX Hatch 306 w/ TRW forged flat toppers, Comp Cams Magnum 292H, GT40P heads w/ 3 angle valve job, .550 lift springs, Angus Racing Roller Rockers, Weiand Stealth Intake, Holley 4150 650cfm carb, MAC 1 5/8 Long Tubes, Single Chamber Flowmasters, 91' T5 w/ Pro 5.0 shifter, Turbo Coupe 8.8 Rear w/ 3.55 gears, QA1 Motorsports tubular K member, no interior except steering wheel and seat. Coming soon: 6 or 8 point cage, Fuel Cell, Weld Draglites

11-21-2003, 11:46 AM	#5
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	Thanks for the replies, i have the same low compression all around the motor, and i thought the reason could be because the oil is turning to water, letting the air seep through the rings. would that be right? and when it was just put together again before this last time it ran great, but then i think the coolent was breaking down the oil and getting into the intake of the heads.... and im pretty sure that the coolent pressure could be great enough to spray from the lower intake in the left rear to get into the oil right??? -Thanks for any thoughts, and i may just do what crazypete said with come gasket sealer and tourqe those bolts down nice and keep checking them and if it continues then i will know i have a gasket leak, unless you guys tell me to pull my heads! Thanks again! __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

11-22-2003, 07:44 AM	#6
Jeff Chambers Moderator Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Milan, OH Posts: 2,699	Careful on over-torqing the intake bolts. I always work to the low end of the recommended torque (12-18 ft-lbs). Overtightening the intake bolts can lift the heads and lead to head gasket problems. Seen it many, many times. The Ford 302 design is extremely poor in head gasket sealing with only 10 bolts per head and the way that they are placed around the cylinder. The intake doesn't need alot of torque to hold it in place so I'd stick with the 12-18 ft-lbs. You've still got something going on though if those bolts are loosening themselves. I have never seen that happen, so something's amiss. __________________ Jeff Chambers 1990 Mustang GT 10.032 Seconds / 137.5 MPH 14-time Street Warrior World Record Setter CRT Performance 2001 Tropic Green Mustang GT - 12.181 / 113.2 MPH 2002 Ford F-250 Crew Cab 7.3l Power Stroke - 17.41@77.2 "There's nothing boring about a small block automatic shifting gears at 9400 rpm!"

11-24-2003, 04:10 PM	#7
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	yea i have a copper head gasket on the side that is getting shakin loose and a good fel-pro on the other head, and if i found i blew the copper gasket, is there any other kind that is better? If the intake was not tightened down (when the bolts came loose) could the coolent have been mixing into the valley? or is the pressure not that great? and last question is could the compression be low because of the oil having no thickness to it? almost like water? because all of the cylinders read the same low compression (about 90-100 psi). Thanks! __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

11-24-2003, 05:20 PM	#8
mustangII460 Factoy Five Roadster Join Date: May 2000 Location: Sevier Co,Tennessee Posts: 1,681	Thread sealer , new bolts.

11-24-2003, 08:47 PM	#9
SilverSN95 Registered Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Ontario Posts: 39	Here is my take on bolts backing out. This will happen if it does not maintain a residual torque or bolt stretch. There are a number of things that can cause this but anything that prevents either of these two things from happening will result in the bolt backing out. Is anything stripped? Are the bolts bottoming out? Are you securing the bolts with the proper pattern/sequence and using a torque wrench to ensure proper installation torque? Also, just a question, if you are leaking coolant into the motor wouldn't that cause the oil to sludge up? I thought any significant amount of water in oil will cause this to happen and not actually thin-out the oil. __________________ Al, 94 Mustang GT 3.55 gears Magnapack mufflers with 2.5" tails STEEDA TRI-AX Shifter MAC pulleys

11-25-2003, 12:35 PM	#10
SmokinStangGT Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: IL Posts: 105	good idea factoryfive, i was thinking about how those bolts problaly need to be replaced because they hae been reused alot, and it was the same thing that silversn95 was saying that they need to strecth but if they are strected too much it wont work again right?? and i am going to use tread sealer this time. But coolent leaking into the motor will cause it to be like water but it does sludge up badly on the top of the valve covers, lower intake and oil valley and the rest (water like) is sitting at the bottom of the oil pan... That is how my experiances have been both times. Thanks alot for the help guys i will be going on vacation this next week to cancun so i will update you all in about 2 weeks! -Thanks! __________________ 89' GT with 5spd Hurst short throw, Keith Black 12:1 comp. pistons, Sealed Power drag racing rings, Fms F303 Cam, Ported and polished upper and lower intake with Ported E7TE heads that contain comp. cam double coiled springs with titainum locks and steel retainers, Fel-Pro Head Gaskets, 9mm ford racing wires, BBK chrome unequal shortys, Power Throttle bodies 70mm, Edlebrock 70mm EGR plate, 15inch K&N, Bassani X-pipe, Flowmaster 40 series, Eibach 1 1/2 lowering springs, Cobra R rims 17X9 with p235 on front and p275 on rear with Falken Zeix tires-RUNNING!

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