Run into a problem in converting to EFI

bosco · 05-23-2002, 11:00 PM

Well, i have an 87 coupe, with a little 5.0, but right now it has a carb sitting on top of it. Ive been planning this FI swap for a few months now. Luckily i havent bought too many parts yet. heres the problem. I just remembered this morning, that my car is not a roller block, hence it has a different fireing order. Im not sure exactly what year it is but the F.O is 15426378. I wanted to use the a9l computer and have a mass air set-up. What should i do, or need to do? The only thing i can think of is buying a latter model 302, cam, and new pshrods and jsut swapping everything over. I really dont want to go to all this trouble, any suggestions? I know some older cars had converted to EFI, how did they do it??? any help is appreciated.

84LX89GT · 05-23-2002, 11:21 PM

It's pretty easy if you want to use a HO firing order 302 on an original non HO equipped block. Buy a 302 HO/351W camshaft. The '83-'85 302 HO mustangs were flat tappet blocks like yours and had the HO firing order that your computer would like to see so the injector timing would be back to where it should be and for ignition timing all you'd have to do is re-route the plug wires to the correct firing order. All you'd really have to do is replace the cam and lifters (flat tappet lifters break in with the cam). you could keep EVERYTHING else the way it is. Swapping the camshaft isn't that hard anyways and if you're putting on an EFI manifold anyways, you'll be inside your engine that far so it's not a huge deal. You can keep your stock pushrods, rocker arms, etc. etc. One thing you may have to look into is what kind of distributor drive gear you'll need with the camshaft (you may have need to change it anyways) because the distributor may have a harder/softer gear than the camshaft. Those are the only issues i can think of off the top of my head.
Good luck,

bosco · 05-23-2002, 11:27 PM

I already did the rolelr conversion, so it had the comp cam retro fit kit on it, and roller rockers and roller lifters, can i buy a 351 roller cam, would that work??? thanks for the help

bosco · 05-23-2002, 11:37 PM

Since its not a roller block, it need the cams with the smaller base circle, comp cams makes cams that are made to work the the retro fit kit, that have the small base circles, but i needed longer pushrods, would i just buy a 351 cam form them? and everythign else stay the same?

PKRWUD · 05-24-2002, 05:23 AM

You can use any cam you like. If it has the non-HO firing order, and you have an A9L ECM, switch the plug and injector wires, and it'll work great. Just remember, roller cams are steel, and hyd. flat tappet cams are cast iron. Make sure your distributor gear is made of the same metal as the cam you select.

Take care,
-Chris

bosco · 05-24-2002, 10:48 AM

Since i did the retro-fit conversion, to convert to a roller cam, i was under the impression that i had to use a cam with a smaller base circle

PKRWUD · 05-24-2002, 11:37 AM

Well, according to Comp cams, you do, but that's news to me. The cams are physically interchangeable. The cam bearing journals are exactly the same size for every Ford 5.0 ever made. The F-150 had a roller block starting in 1988, but they stuffed a flat tappet cam in there until 1992. Worked fine. I've seen cams swapped dozens of times, and the only problem that ever arises is when the distributor gear is not matched.

Take care,
-Chris

red82gt · 05-24-2002, 01:31 PM

The "apparent" problem with not using a small base circle cam is that the lifters are too tall and will come out of their bores on a non-roller block, I've heard that this is kind of a myth, especially on the 351W's. Just do a PKRWUD says and it'll work fine.

84LX89GT, small correction 82-84 5.0L had a flat cam with the 351 firing order and the 85 was the roller cam.

bosco · 05-24-2002, 06:41 PM

It looked like the lifter was a little taller than the spot it went in on the block, but then we put those little things to keep them ligned up, so there in there now. So if i were to just put any 5.0 roller cam in it, what else will i need? new pushrods? the lifters i have will work right? I do appreciate the help, yall are very helpfull. Like i said, i was under the impressin that i woud have to use comp cams seriese of the retro-fit cams. I still havent decided what i am going to do....

bosco · 05-25-2002, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PKRWUD
Well, according to Comp cams, you do, but that's news to me. The cams are physically interchangeable. The cam bearing journals are exactly the same size for every Ford 5.0 ever made. The F-150 had a roller block starting in 1988, but they stuffed a flat tappet cam in there until 1992. Worked fine. I've seen cams swapped dozens of times, and the only problem that ever arises is when the distributor gear is not matched.

Take care,
-Chris

Heres a thought, and i could be totally wrong but, a roller cam has a larger base circle, but to my understanding the flat, tapped cams have a smaller base circle. On a non roller block, the the lifters are shorter correct, so the point of these retro fit cams are they have the small base circle, to help compensate for taller lifters. If i were to put a regualr roller cam in it that had the larger base circles, than the lifter would come up too high, correct? i guess would that even matter?

05-23-2002, 11:00 PM	#1
bosco Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: austin TX Posts: 115	Run into a problem in converting to EFI Well, i have an 87 coupe, with a little 5.0, but right now it has a carb sitting on top of it. Ive been planning this FI swap for a few months now. Luckily i havent bought too many parts yet. heres the problem. I just remembered this morning, that my car is not a roller block, hence it has a different fireing order. Im not sure exactly what year it is but the F.O is 15426378. I wanted to use the a9l computer and have a mass air set-up. What should i do, or need to do? The only thing i can think of is buying a latter model 302, cam, and new pshrods and jsut swapping everything over. I really dont want to go to all this trouble, any suggestions? I know some older cars had converted to EFI, how did they do it??? any help is appreciated. __________________ '87 coupe, 308, world product windsor jr. heads, comp cams 220@.050/.512 @110 deg., roller cam,crane full roller rockers, 4bbl 600cfm holly carb,1 inch spacer, wiend aluminum intake, pullies, msd distributer/ignition, 1 5/8 bbk shorties, off road h-pipe 2 chamber flows, 3.73 posi rear end, P.S.T control arms, steeda tri-ax shifter, t-5, auto meter guages, and more to come (hopefully )

05-23-2002, 11:21 PM	#2
84LX89GT Mustangs Join Date: Jul 2000 Posts: 1,938	It's pretty easy if you want to use a HO firing order 302 on an original non HO equipped block. Buy a 302 HO/351W camshaft. The '83-'85 302 HO mustangs were flat tappet blocks like yours and had the HO firing order that your computer would like to see so the injector timing would be back to where it should be and for ignition timing all you'd have to do is re-route the plug wires to the correct firing order. All you'd really have to do is replace the cam and lifters (flat tappet lifters break in with the cam). you could keep EVERYTHING else the way it is. Swapping the camshaft isn't that hard anyways and if you're putting on an EFI manifold anyways, you'll be inside your engine that far so it's not a huge deal. You can keep your stock pushrods, rocker arms, etc. etc. One thing you may have to look into is what kind of distributor drive gear you'll need with the camshaft (you may have need to change it anyways) because the distributor may have a harder/softer gear than the camshaft. Those are the only issues i can think of off the top of my head. Good luck, __________________ 2005 Suzuki Hayabusa GSX1300-R 1980 Ford Thunderbird - 255 V8 ported heads, 5.0L ported stock headers, O.R. H-pipe and Flowmaster 2-chambers, dual roller timing chain hi-po Mack Truck hood emblem 1985 Mustang GT 5.0L T5, F-303, GT40p, headers, off-road h, flowmasters, MSD stuff, etc. Sold 02/06/04 1989 Mustang GT ET: 13.304@102.29 mph (5-24-03) Sold - 1998 Mustang Cobra coupe, 1/4 mile - street tires: 13.843@103.41 (bone stock)

05-23-2002, 11:27 PM	#3
bosco Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: austin TX Posts: 115	I already did the rolelr conversion, so it had the comp cam retro fit kit on it, and roller rockers and roller lifters, can i buy a 351 roller cam, would that work??? thanks for the help __________________ '87 coupe, 308, world product windsor jr. heads, comp cams 220@.050/.512 @110 deg., roller cam,crane full roller rockers, 4bbl 600cfm holly carb,1 inch spacer, wiend aluminum intake, pullies, msd distributer/ignition, 1 5/8 bbk shorties, off road h-pipe 2 chamber flows, 3.73 posi rear end, P.S.T control arms, steeda tri-ax shifter, t-5, auto meter guages, and more to come (hopefully )

05-24-2002, 05:23 AM	#5
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	You can use any cam you like. If it has the non-HO firing order, and you have an A9L ECM, switch the plug and injector wires, and it'll work great. Just remember, roller cams are steel, and hyd. flat tappet cams are cast iron. Make sure your distributor gear is made of the same metal as the cam you select. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-24-2002, 11:37 AM	#7
PKRWUD Junior Member Join Date: Mar 1999 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 8,981	Well, according to Comp cams, you do, but that's news to me. The cams are physically interchangeable. The cam bearing journals are exactly the same size for every Ford 5.0 ever made. The F-150 had a roller block starting in 1988, but they stuffed a flat tappet cam in there until 1992. Worked fine. I've seen cams swapped dozens of times, and the only problem that ever arises is when the distributor gear is not matched. Take care, -Chris __________________ Webmaster: Rice Haters Club Jim Porter Racing Peckerwoods Pit Stop Support Your Local RED & WHITE!

05-23-2002, 11:37 PM	#4
bosco Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: austin TX Posts: 115	Since its not a roller block, it need the cams with the smaller base circle, comp cams makes cams that are made to work the the retro fit kit, that have the small base circles, but i needed longer pushrods, would i just buy a 351 cam form them? and everythign else stay the same?

05-24-2002, 10:48 AM	#6
bosco Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: austin TX Posts: 115	Since i did the retro-fit conversion, to convert to a roller cam, i was under the impression that i had to use a cam with a smaller base circle

05-24-2002, 01:31 PM	#8
red82gt Sober voice of Reason Join Date: Nov 1998 Location: Kelowna, B.C., Canada Posts: 1,514	The "apparent" problem with not using a small base circle cam is that the lifters are too tall and will come out of their bores on a non-roller block, I've heard that this is kind of a myth, especially on the 351W's. Just do a PKRWUD says and it'll work fine. 84LX89GT, small correction 82-84 5.0L had a flat cam with the 351 firing order and the 85 was the roller cam. __________________ 393W: AFR 205's, hydraulic roller, TKO600.

05-24-2002, 06:41 PM	#9
bosco Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: austin TX Posts: 115	It looked like the lifter was a little taller than the spot it went in on the block, but then we put those little things to keep them ligned up, so there in there now. So if i were to just put any 5.0 roller cam in it, what else will i need? new pushrods? the lifters i have will work right? I do appreciate the help, yall are very helpfull. Like i said, i was under the impressin that i woud have to use comp cams seriese of the retro-fit cams. I still havent decided what i am going to do....

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